458 Speciale vs. 991.2 manual GT3 advice please

[Taffy66]

RSVP911 said:

How exciting - love an HC email !

Henry Catchpole.??

[RSVP911]

Taffy66 said:

Henry Catchpole.??

No, it’s the initials of Slippydiff

[AndrewD]

WCZ said:

£250k is value for what is one of the best cars of all time imo, I personally think they'll be worth more in 5 years

It’s funny isn’t it - totally get your viewpoint but to me the Speciale is one of the most over rated cars of all time. Sold it within 3 months. Fake and too quiet exhaust note, but worst of all is the light and fast steering which did not give me any confidence on the front end of the car. I’m obviously in a minority but there you go.

[Slippydiff]

Taffy66 said:

RSVP911 said:

How exciting - love an HC email !

Henry Catchpole ??

RSVP911 said:

No, it’s the initials of Slippydiff

[Taffy66]

AndrewD said:

It’s funny isn’t it - totally get your viewpoint but to me the Speciale is one of the most over rated cars of all time. Sold it within 3 months. Fake and too quiet exhaust note, but worst of all is the light and fast steering which did not give me any confidence on the front end of the car. I’m obviously in a minority but there you go.

I know of people who have owned both Italia and Speciale and they said if you own the latter then make sure you don't drive the former..A nicely optioned 458 drives better than a Speciale on our typical roads plus sounds much better with its three exit exhaust..I thought the same as you regarding the steering and took a few weeks to adapt my inputs and trust my muscle memory before i gelled with the steering..Its extremely reactive compared to Porsches, McLarens etc and requires a more delicate touch..

[Cblair246]

How mileage sensitive are the Speciale and the 4.0, say doing 5,000 miles a year for 2-3 years? Porsche definitely seem less sensitive compared to Ferrari, in general, but would it be time to take a bath selling an Speciale with 15k on it after 3 years? Does anyone even drive Ferrari’s??

[RSVP911]

I’ve driven one now - thoughts based on a limited test drive - so huge caveat to conclusions.

Plus points - engine is absolutely fantastic , I liked the noise very much.

It’s a really pretty car , not at all intimidating at sensible speeds,. Driving position excellent and it felt really small and easy to place.

Only issue is the steering feel - it felt vague and light to me - now this may change when pushing on / once one gets more used to it (but felt very different to the Porsche GT cars I’ve had - IMHO nowhere near as nice)

It’s on a different level from a theatre perspective to my recently departed manual 991.2 GT3 CS - in truth, I think the GT3 felt like a better drivers car (the manual / steering feel had a lot to do with this for me)

However as I say - I would really want to spend some proper time on some interesting roads to really understand it properly, so my impression may be completely flawed.

Glad I had a go in one though.

I got out and was really frustrated as I really wanted to love it as it’s got a real sense of theatre and it’s very sexy, but all it did was make me hanker for another manual GT3. I can see why someone on here suggested that they were different enough to have both (in an ideal non constrained world)

Might risk it and try one for a while ??

I haven’t driven a 488 or a F8 Tributo - wonder how they compare - maybe even more Grand Tourer ?

Any real world views most welcome - really wonder if anyone who’s driven both agrees on my comments - or is it simply down to the fact they are different and it’s just a case of re calibration ?

Cheers

Edited by RSVP911 on Tuesday 7th July 20:32

[fridaypassion]

So my 458 is a boggo one but I can tell you it has a tonne more steering feel than a GT3. Porsche have electric steering! The worst point on the whole car!

My 458 doesn't have particularly light steering bear in mind that some small changes to castor settings can change the feeling of light or heavy centering so some slight car to car variance but it is hydraulic and thats where when you are really pressing on you'll feel the benefit.

I can't comment if a Speciale is worth it over a GT3 but I know the normal 458 is twice the event of the Porsche. I was looking at the 991.2 also but why would have one of those in the garage when you can have a Ferrari? It was a no brainier for me when I reliased the 458 was in the same price bracket. The GT3 I would still like but that will be my calming down/financial recovery car in 2 or 3 years. One thing you'll not have chance to pick up on on a test drive is the change of character the car has when its up on its toes in race mode. It's properly intoxicating. I'm not sure why you are particularly looking at the Speciale over the normal one as there's a huge disparity in the price of those and a 991 GT3 but stop all this nonsense about Porsche and go buy the Ferrari.

Edited by fridaypassion on Tuesday 7th July 20:40

[Slippydiff]

Jethro B seemed to think it was pretty good :

https://youtu.be/Ry_Ywh8I9-4?t=374

Steering discussed here :

https://youtu.be/Ry_Ywh8I9-4?t=429

and it's increased weight mentioned too ...

https://youtu.be/Ry_Ywh8I9-4?t=445

Hope that's helpful

You most likely drove one with shonky old (or indeed brand new) tyres and wonky geometry.

Oh yes, I struck you off my Christmas card list as of midnight on Sunday. Tw&t

[Taffy66]

Slippydiff said:

Jethro B seemed to think it was pretty good :

https://youtu.be/Ry_Ywh8I9-4?t=374

Steering discussed here :

https://youtu.be/Ry_Ywh8I9-4?t=429

and it's increased weight mentioned too ...

https://youtu.be/Ry_Ywh8I9-4?t=445

Hope that's helpful

You most likely drove one with shonky old (or indeed brand new) tyres and wonky geometry.

Oh yes, I struck you off my Christmas card list as of midnight on Sunday. Tw&t

I own both a 458 and a 991.2GT3 RS WP and love both..The 458 has a magic about it only Italians seem able to achieve..The very quick hydraulic steering feels too light and sharp initially especially for someone used to driving only Porsches..However given time behind the wheel it gradually becomes intuitive and eventually second nature as you learn to guide the 458 with subtle wrist actions rather than heaving on it with your arms..
I really don't see the value in Speciales at twice the money over Italias especially when the latter rides better and sounds better..They have reached parity with newer 488s which would indicate better residuals moving forward..RSVP should try a highly specced Italia to compare and use the £130k saving to put towards a CGT..
I switched to Michelins MP4Ss last year and had a geo check done at DL Swindon which combined made a significant difference to how it handled..It seems 458s are more sensitive to fine tuning of geometry than other cars..

Edited by Taffy66 on Tuesday 7th July 21:59

[Slippydiff]

Taffy66 said:

I own both a 458 and a 991.2GT3 RS WP and love both..The 458 has a magic about it only Italians seem able to achieve..The very quick hydraulic steering feels too light and sharp initially especially for someone used to driving only Porsches..However given time behind the wheel it gradually becomes intuitive and eventually second nature as you learn to guide the 458 with subtle wrist actions rather than heaving on it with your arms.

I experienced the same “issue” after owning numerous Porsche air and watercooled RS & GT products, then going to an E46 M3 CSL.

Where is the weight, where is the fidgeting and where the feedback ?

Well the truth was, it was all there in the CSL, just it was different, and didn’t have the “noise” of 911.

But once you realised it had all the heft and all the feedback you needed (and none of the noise) it was the icing on the cake of a truly superb chassis that enabled you to take massive liberties and know exactly what was going on betwixt tyre and tarmac.

As you’ve said, there’s more than one way to skin a cat.

[isaldiri]

Slippydiff said:

You most likely drove one with shonky old (or indeed brand new) tyres and wonky geometry.

My 2p - it's just an issue of familiarity. The Ferrari steering is quite different to what RSVP I think is usually used to. imo there's little general steering feel by comparison (at least to the 997 era) and it certainly has less steering weight but the Ferrari is still very easy to place on the road and has very precise steering at speed. The steering on the speciale is also less flighty for some reason than a standard 458 in my experience (which is a very good thing).

R - I think you just need to get the speciale on a drive on a decent road - i think you'd really like it then. Personally if I were getting one I'd certainly stick with a speciale over the standard 458 as it definitely offers that extra something (albeit at quite a steep price).

P.S a 488 would be massively quicker as it's taken a leaf from Mclaren in being scarily easy to drive at monstrous speeds. Whether that's a good thing to you is quite personal.

Edited by isaldiri on Tuesday 7th July 22:09

[Slippydiff]

Taffy66 said:

I switched to Michelins MP4Ss last year and had a geo check done at DL Swindon which combined made a significant difference to how it handled..It seems 458s are more sensitive to fine tuning of geometry than other cars ...

I suspect there are many F cars (of all generations) with out of date tyres (that look new) and sub-optimal suspension set ups. As most Porsche GT/RS owners appreciate, fresh tyres and properly set up suspension are key to both maximising the performance of the cars and enjoying them.

[RSVP911]

fridaypassion said:

So my 458 is a boggo one but I can tell you it has a tonne more steering feel than a GT3. Porsche have electric steering! The worst point on the whole car!

My 458 doesn't have particularly light steering bear in mind that some small changes to castor settings can change the feeling of light or heavy centering so some slight car to car variance but it is hydraulic and thats where when you are really pressing on you'll feel the benefit.

I can't comment if a Speciale is worth it over a GT3 but I know the normal 458 is twice the event of the Porsche. I was looking at the 991.2 also but why would have one of those in the garage when you can have a Ferrari? It was a no brainier for me when I reliased the 458 was in the same price bracket. The GT3 I would still like but that will be my calming down/financial recovery car in 2 or 3 years. One thing you'll not have chance to pick up on on a test drive is the change of character the car has when its up on its toes in race mode. It's properly intoxicating. I'm not sure why you are particularly looking at the Speciale over the normal one as there's a huge disparity in the price of those and a 991 GT3 but stop all this nonsense about Porsche and go buy the Ferrari.

Edited by fridaypassion on Tuesday 7th July 20:40

Thanks very much for this - very good point re set up - this could be the issue. Also completely agree as I couldn’t stretch its legs I may not have really understood what it’s all about - I can’t believe they aren’t epic cars tbh - was surprised how I felt post drive - though it may have been me

[RSVP911]

Slippydiff said:

Jethro B seemed to think it was pretty good :

https://youtu.be/Ry_Ywh8I9-4?t=374

Steering discussed here :

https://youtu.be/Ry_Ywh8I9-4?t=429

and it's increased weight mentioned too ...

https://youtu.be/Ry_Ywh8I9-4?t=445

Hope that's helpful

You most likely drove one with shonky old (or indeed brand new) tyres and wonky geometry.

Oh yes, I struck you off my Christmas card list as of midnight on Sunday. Tw&t

Thanks will watch these tomorrow - cheers. What have I done to get taken off your Xmas list btw ?

Also you have mail

[RSVP911]

Taffy66 said:

Slippydiff said:

Jethro B seemed to think it was pretty good :

https://youtu.be/Ry_Ywh8I9-4?t=374

Steering discussed here :

https://youtu.be/Ry_Ywh8I9-4?t=429

and it's increased weight mentioned too ...

https://youtu.be/Ry_Ywh8I9-4?t=445

Hope that's helpful

You most likely drove one with shonky old (or indeed brand new) tyres and wonky geometry.

Oh yes, I struck you off my Christmas card list as of midnight on Sunday. Tw&t

I own both a 458 and a 991.2GT3 RS WP and love both..The 458 has a magic about it only Italians seem able to achieve..The very quick hydraulic steering feels too light and sharp initially especially for someone used to driving only Porsches..However given time behind the wheel it gradually becomes intuitive and eventually second nature as you learn to guide the 458 with subtle wrist actions rather than heaving on it with your arms..
I really don't see the value in Speciales at twice the money over Italias especially when the latter rides better and sounds better..They have reached parity with newer 488s which would indicate better residuals moving forward..RSVP should try a highly specced Italia to compare and use the £130k saving to put towards a CGT..
I switched to Michelins MP4Ss last year and had a geo check done at DL Swindon which combined made a significant difference to how it handled..It seems 458s are more sensitive to fine tuning of geometry than other cars..

Edited by Taffy66 on Tuesday 7th July 21:59

Cheers Taffy - interesting post - why is the sound in there Italia better btw ?

[RSVP911]

RSVP911 said:

Taffy66 said:

Slippydiff said:

Jethro B seemed to think it was pretty good :

https://youtu.be/Ry_Ywh8I9-4?t=374

Steering discussed here :

https://youtu.be/Ry_Ywh8I9-4?t=429

and it's increased weight mentioned too ...

https://youtu.be/Ry_Ywh8I9-4?t=445

Hope that's helpful

You most likely drove one with shonky old (or indeed brand new) tyres and wonky geometry.

Oh yes, I struck you off my Christmas card list as of midnight on Sunday. Tw&t

I own both a 458 and a 991.2GT3 RS WP and love both..The 458 has a magic about it only Italians seem able to achieve..The very quick hydraulic steering feels too light and sharp initially especially for someone used to driving only Porsches..However given time behind the wheel it gradually becomes intuitive and eventually second nature as you learn to guide the 458 with subtle wrist actions rather than heaving on it with your arms..
I really don't see the value in Speciales at twice the money over Italias especially when the latter rides better and sounds better..They have reached parity with newer 488s which would indicate better residuals moving forward..RSVP should try a highly specced Italia to compare and use the £130k saving to put towards a CGT..
I switched to Michelins MP4Ss last year and had a geo check done at DL Swindon which combined made a significant difference to how it handled..It seems 458s are more sensitive to fine tuning of geometry than other cars..

Edited by Taffy66 on Tuesday 7th July 21:59

Cheers Taffy - interesting post - why is the sound in there Italia better btw ? How much is a decent italia btw - can’t see these being 1/2 a Speciale ?

[RSVP911]

isaldiri said:

Slippydiff said:

You most likely drove one with shonky old (or indeed brand new) tyres and wonky geometry.

My 2p - it's just an issue of familiarity. The Ferrari steering is quite different to what RSVP I think is usually used to. imo there's little general steering feel by comparison (at least to the 997 era) and it certainly has less steering weight but the Ferrari is still very easy to place on the road and has very precise steering at speed. The steering on the speciale is also less flighty for some reason than a standard 458 in my experience (which is a very good thing).

R - I think you just need to get the speciale on a drive on a decent road - i think you'd really like it then. Personally if I were getting one I'd certainly stick with a speciale over the standard 458 as it definitely offers that extra something (albeit at quite a steep price).

P.S a 488 would be massively quicker as it's taken a leaf from Mclaren in being scarily easy to drive at monstrous speeds. Whether that's a good thing to you is quite personal.

Edited by isaldiri on Tuesday 7th July 22:09

Cheers chap - insightful post - have you spent much time behind the wheel of a Speciale then ?

I did think the car was really easy to place and super easy to size up and feel comfortable in - loved everything about it except the build quality wasn’t great (I know it’s an older car) and the steering feel - but as you say, it’s Just very different to all the old AC cars and various GT Porsche’s that I’m used to - not driven another car other than a Porsche in the last 6-7 years (Wife’s Fiat 500 and a borrowed Range Rover are the only exception to this)

Let’s see where we get to

PS Re your comment on 488 speed / easy to drive comment - not interested in this -Oder Cara are already too fast

Edited by RSVP911 on Tuesday 7th July 23:12

[Taffy66]

isaldiri said:

My 2p - it's just an issue of familiarity. The Ferrari steering is quite different to what RSVP I think is usually used to. imo there's little general steering feel by comparison (at least to the 997 era) and it certainly has less steering weight but the Ferrari is still very easy to place on the road and has very precise steering at speed. The steering on the speciale is also less flighty for some reason than a standard 458 in my experience (which is a very good thing).

R - I think you just need to get the speciale on a drive on a decent road - i think you'd really like it then. Personally if I were getting one I'd certainly stick with a speciale over the standard 458 as it definitely offers that extra something (albeit at quite a steep price).

P.S a 488 would be massively quicker as it's taken a leaf from Mclaren in being scarily easy to drive at monstrous speeds. Whether that's a good thing to you is quite personal.


I agree with everything you've just said, however with one huge caveat....and that is i haven't had the good fortunate to drive a Speciale..This is deliberate on my behalf due to my typical impulsive nature.

Edited by isaldiri on Tuesday 7th July 22:09

[Taffy66]

RSVP911 said:

Cheers Taffy - interesting post - why is the sound in there Italia better btw ?

Different exhaust system identified with three tail pipes compared to the Speciale's two..Don't get me wrong as if i had unlimited funds then i'd have bought a Speciale over an Italia every day of the week, however at twice the money.......