Discussion
Afternoon all,
Ok, so, I have used the search button extensively, watched many YouTube videos (my god there is some shouty dross out there is there not?) and put the current car up for sale.
I am a long time GT-R owner (had an original MY10, I still own the only UK Spec V and currently also have a Stealth Grey Nismo) and have adored the family feel of the community but it’s time to indulge the deep seated craving I have had since I could utter those indomitable three syllables Fe rar ri.
A coupe of my peers have 458s and love the mid engine howl but (and it’s a big but) I want something that I can use a bit more (it’s not going to be a garage queen) and put bags in for a long weekend/tight week and is going to make me look back every time you park her.
I am, therefore, torn. A 458 makes sense as last N/A, beautiful, sounds great etc etc etc but I keep being drawn to an F12 now the pricing appears to have come to a level which is comparable.
I get all the arguments - a V12 is a real Ferrari, a V8 is more nimble and more presence and on and on but that noise, that engine and that drive train along with a sensible (I am early 40s so only halfway to dead - unless I do buttertubs, in winter in an F12 of course) turns my head and ears.
I am, of course, posting in the biased coroner but a few thoughts and input to make sure I am not barking.
The Rosa Corsa, Crema with decent Carbon currently up for £159,999 (was £175k) at JCT Leeds looks a very very good ‘bargain’? What am I missing?
Don’t want to dash ‘straight’ to an exhaust (see what I did there?) so assume permanent valve bypass is way to go initially?
Love the Carbon seats (have Recaro in both Spec V and Nismo) but for driving ‘normally’ but enjoying it are they vital? I am 6’2” and longer in leg.
Resale - this is a 5 year+ keeper but always worth having in back of mind - is that a decent combo in the view of the wider community. if so, why hasn’t it sold....? Yes I understand dark colours/subtle F12 is the way forward. But I want a red one - because, I do. ;-)
If above is incorrect - what’s absolutely vital, what’s nice to have and what are the most important thing to look for? Rear paint intake peeling etc aside.
What’s the range (I know it’s a lot to fill and Nismo does 18-20MPG but stopping every 250 miles is a pain when planning 99-102 RON). Yes it will do 3 MPG when you let loose but I will be cruising, touring and enjoying Scottish/French/Austrian sweepers as opposed to Hanger Straight.
Notice I am not mentioning the D word - I fully appreciate I am going to lose some money on depreciation but I measure it it joy per mile and, really, are they going to half again in 15000 miles and five years? I am not in the situation where it’s going to kill me but, then again, no one gets to buy one of these by throwing money away unnecessarily.
I am very happy to wait for the ‘right’ car so not in a rush so anyone knows of anything under the counter please PM me. Obviously FFSH and Dealer Warranty are a big backstop for a newbie.
Thanks and look forward to many conflicting opinions!
Rog.
Ok, so, I have used the search button extensively, watched many YouTube videos (my god there is some shouty dross out there is there not?) and put the current car up for sale.
I am a long time GT-R owner (had an original MY10, I still own the only UK Spec V and currently also have a Stealth Grey Nismo) and have adored the family feel of the community but it’s time to indulge the deep seated craving I have had since I could utter those indomitable three syllables Fe rar ri.
A coupe of my peers have 458s and love the mid engine howl but (and it’s a big but) I want something that I can use a bit more (it’s not going to be a garage queen) and put bags in for a long weekend/tight week and is going to make me look back every time you park her.
I am, therefore, torn. A 458 makes sense as last N/A, beautiful, sounds great etc etc etc but I keep being drawn to an F12 now the pricing appears to have come to a level which is comparable.
I get all the arguments - a V12 is a real Ferrari, a V8 is more nimble and more presence and on and on but that noise, that engine and that drive train along with a sensible (I am early 40s so only halfway to dead - unless I do buttertubs, in winter in an F12 of course) turns my head and ears.
I am, of course, posting in the biased coroner but a few thoughts and input to make sure I am not barking.
The Rosa Corsa, Crema with decent Carbon currently up for £159,999 (was £175k) at JCT Leeds looks a very very good ‘bargain’? What am I missing?
Don’t want to dash ‘straight’ to an exhaust (see what I did there?) so assume permanent valve bypass is way to go initially?
Love the Carbon seats (have Recaro in both Spec V and Nismo) but for driving ‘normally’ but enjoying it are they vital? I am 6’2” and longer in leg.
Resale - this is a 5 year+ keeper but always worth having in back of mind - is that a decent combo in the view of the wider community. if so, why hasn’t it sold....? Yes I understand dark colours/subtle F12 is the way forward. But I want a red one - because, I do. ;-)
If above is incorrect - what’s absolutely vital, what’s nice to have and what are the most important thing to look for? Rear paint intake peeling etc aside.
What’s the range (I know it’s a lot to fill and Nismo does 18-20MPG but stopping every 250 miles is a pain when planning 99-102 RON). Yes it will do 3 MPG when you let loose but I will be cruising, touring and enjoying Scottish/French/Austrian sweepers as opposed to Hanger Straight.
Notice I am not mentioning the D word - I fully appreciate I am going to lose some money on depreciation but I measure it it joy per mile and, really, are they going to half again in 15000 miles and five years? I am not in the situation where it’s going to kill me but, then again, no one gets to buy one of these by throwing money away unnecessarily.
I am very happy to wait for the ‘right’ car so not in a rush so anyone knows of anything under the counter please PM me. Obviously FFSH and Dealer Warranty are a big backstop for a newbie.
Thanks and look forward to many conflicting opinions!
Rog.
I own both. Both long term (458 Spider since new in 2014 and the F12 since 2015). Both have around 25K on, most of which has been done round Europe (plus NC 500 for the Spider). I doubt I'll ever sell either.
Totally different cars. The 458 is by far the more fun car to drive. It handles better, the turn in is truly epic and it's just a great experience to drive. The F12 is a more special place to sit, much better for touring with the Mrs and covers long distances with ease.
I wouldn't dream of going on a road trip with my friends in the F12. I (she) wouldn't even consider touring with my wife in the 458.
On the lads road trips we go at it in the Dolomites, Alps, Pyranees etc consistently hitting the redline. On the trips with my Mrs we tour Italy usually taking in the sights and so on barely getting above 5000rpm. Different cars, different strengths, different experiences.
You simply have to decide which experience you want. Not which car.
Totally different cars. The 458 is by far the more fun car to drive. It handles better, the turn in is truly epic and it's just a great experience to drive. The F12 is a more special place to sit, much better for touring with the Mrs and covers long distances with ease.
I wouldn't dream of going on a road trip with my friends in the F12. I (she) wouldn't even consider touring with my wife in the 458.
On the lads road trips we go at it in the Dolomites, Alps, Pyranees etc consistently hitting the redline. On the trips with my Mrs we tour Italy usually taking in the sights and so on barely getting above 5000rpm. Different cars, different strengths, different experiences.
You simply have to decide which experience you want. Not which car.
I normally agree with _leg_ about most things but I don't agree that a 458 is not suitable for couples' touring. I have done a number of French and Italian trips with Mrs Wombat in the 458 (spider). She finds it comfortable and it will accommodate a surprising amount of luggage if you use squashy bags and a suit-carrier (three squashy bags and suit-carrier in the boot and a couple of smaller squashy bags behind the seats).As to whether F12 or 458 - why not one of each?
_Leg_ said:
I own both. Both long term (458 Spider since new in 2014 and the F12 since 2015). Both have around 25K on, most of which has been done round Europe (plus NC 500 for the Spider). I doubt I'll ever sell either.
Totally different cars. The 458 is by far the more fun car to drive. It handles better, the turn in is truly epic and it's just a great experience to drive. The F12 is a more special place to sit, much better for touring with the Mrs and covers long distances with ease.
I wouldn't dream of going on a road trip with my friends in the F12. I (she) wouldn't even consider touring with my wife in the 458.
On the lads road trips we go at it in the Dolomites, Alps, Pyranees etc consistently hitting the redline. On the trips with my Mrs we tour Italy usually taking in the sights and so on barely getting above 5000rpm. Different cars, different strengths, different experiences.
You simply have to decide which experience you want. Not which car.
Spot on reply. I'm touting with the same choice. I kind of have a penchant for older cars so the whole Superfast thing doesn't make sense. The new era cars are too fast and more importantly too wide to use inside town for everyday use. Even the Porsche turbo S has grown bigger again with the 992 tts. So there isn't a car for all courses so one might as well go for niche cars and then let the experience rule the choice. Pottling around in Portofinomor Milan in a 812 Superfast is not much fun I can tell you. My wife has a 595 Abarth for that particular experience. Totally different cars. The 458 is by far the more fun car to drive. It handles better, the turn in is truly epic and it's just a great experience to drive. The F12 is a more special place to sit, much better for touring with the Mrs and covers long distances with ease.
I wouldn't dream of going on a road trip with my friends in the F12. I (she) wouldn't even consider touring with my wife in the 458.
On the lads road trips we go at it in the Dolomites, Alps, Pyranees etc consistently hitting the redline. On the trips with my Mrs we tour Italy usually taking in the sights and so on barely getting above 5000rpm. Different cars, different strengths, different experiences.
You simply have to decide which experience you want. Not which car.
I've only limited experience in the F12, and none in the 458 - BUT my concern about putting big miles on the F12 is that it did feel constantly hyper alert. It didn't seem to be able to relax, even though it was a perfectly comfortable car (surprisingly so actually).
I've also done plenty of tours in mid engined sports cars, which can be surprisingly practical, so as has been mentioned best thing really is to try both and see which fits you.
I've also done plenty of tours in mid engined sports cars, which can be surprisingly practical, so as has been mentioned best thing really is to try both and see which fits you.
I was in very similar predicament at the start of the year.
Always wanted a 458, been my favourite car and “goal” for a long time. Wanted something we can drive to the south of France and go on some long road trips.
Never considered an F12 until it was mentioned to me. I drove both b2b and just felt more comfortable in the F12, in the 458 I just didn’t feel like I could relax, this could’ve been because it was first time I drove a Ferrari though!! But the throttle and feel I just didn’t think suited “me”. I ended up upping my budget by 50k and getting a stunning black F12 with Nero leather - not the racing seats but it’s absolutely dripping in carbon inside.
I would recommend go and drive one b2b and that should help you realise what’s right for you.
Always wanted a 458, been my favourite car and “goal” for a long time. Wanted something we can drive to the south of France and go on some long road trips.
Never considered an F12 until it was mentioned to me. I drove both b2b and just felt more comfortable in the F12, in the 458 I just didn’t feel like I could relax, this could’ve been because it was first time I drove a Ferrari though!! But the throttle and feel I just didn’t think suited “me”. I ended up upping my budget by 50k and getting a stunning black F12 with Nero leather - not the racing seats but it’s absolutely dripping in carbon inside.
I would recommend go and drive one b2b and that should help you realise what’s right for you.
danh89 said:
I was in very similar predicament at the start of the year.
Always wanted a 458, been my favourite car and “goal” for a long time. Wanted something we can drive to the south of France and go on some long road trips.
Never considered an F12 until it was mentioned to me. I drove both b2b and just felt more comfortable in the F12, in the 458 I just didn’t feel like I could relax, this could’ve been because it was first time I drove a Ferrari though!! But the throttle and feel I just didn’t think suited “me”. I ended up upping my budget by 50k and getting a stunning black F12 with Nero leather - not the racing seats but it’s absolutely dripping in carbon inside.
I would recommend go and drive one b2b and that should help you realise what’s right for you.
I agree, jump from one to the other and what immediately strikes you is the better overall quality of the F12, cabin in particular. Always wanted a 458, been my favourite car and “goal” for a long time. Wanted something we can drive to the south of France and go on some long road trips.
Never considered an F12 until it was mentioned to me. I drove both b2b and just felt more comfortable in the F12, in the 458 I just didn’t feel like I could relax, this could’ve been because it was first time I drove a Ferrari though!! But the throttle and feel I just didn’t think suited “me”. I ended up upping my budget by 50k and getting a stunning black F12 with Nero leather - not the racing seats but it’s absolutely dripping in carbon inside.
I would recommend go and drive one b2b and that should help you realise what’s right for you.
If there is almost price parity now or very close to, I would choose the F12 too.
Thanks all - appreciate the responses. I can have one only - live in Central London and rent parking spots and it’s a nightmare at best with the two cars dotted round London let alone three!
Plus I simply cannot justify two cars like that - have only done 3,500 miles in Nismo this year and Zenos E10R (I should probably have said I have that up my sleeve for track/fun/summer days out has been off the road for a year. It’s been rebuilt with lightweight fly, updated turbo has and Intercooler so now runs 370 BHP and 800KG. Get her back this week!
So, the choice is which one, and only one. I want it to be special and versatile and therefore the F12 seemed the most obvious choice and while I fully appreciate the first response my Missus will want it at 8,500 RPM all the time and encourages 180+ Autobahn blasts but also has shoes.
I suspect I am answering my own question but the ‘being a wonderful place to be’ seems to be a common thread for F12. I shall take all advice and pop and do both B2B when am ready to make the bank transfer.
Other thing is smart move seems to be to wait for Furlough to end and watch the possible carnage ensue with prices coming off.
Any comments on that JCT car? Final query - battery conditioner - underground garage, not mine, no solar and no plug....? Portable battery charger/conditioner to keep topped up and charge every couple of weeks?
Plus I simply cannot justify two cars like that - have only done 3,500 miles in Nismo this year and Zenos E10R (I should probably have said I have that up my sleeve for track/fun/summer days out has been off the road for a year. It’s been rebuilt with lightweight fly, updated turbo has and Intercooler so now runs 370 BHP and 800KG. Get her back this week!
So, the choice is which one, and only one. I want it to be special and versatile and therefore the F12 seemed the most obvious choice and while I fully appreciate the first response my Missus will want it at 8,500 RPM all the time and encourages 180+ Autobahn blasts but also has shoes.
I suspect I am answering my own question but the ‘being a wonderful place to be’ seems to be a common thread for F12. I shall take all advice and pop and do both B2B when am ready to make the bank transfer.
Other thing is smart move seems to be to wait for Furlough to end and watch the possible carnage ensue with prices coming off.
Any comments on that JCT car? Final query - battery conditioner - underground garage, not mine, no solar and no plug....? Portable battery charger/conditioner to keep topped up and charge every couple of weeks?
Edited by RogGT-R on Sunday 5th July 17:17
Edited by RogGT-R on Sunday 5th July 17:34
I won’t comment on the 458 vs F12 question beyond echoing what others have said - go drive them and you’ll know. I think that given the other cars you have, the F12 will be more of a contrast than the 458.
Regarding the JCT car in Rosso/Crema, you answered your own question on why it might not be selling. V12s look/sell better in darker colours. If you want red, take a look at the triple layer Rosso Berlinetta car they have. It was the launch colour. If that’s to rich and you don’t like the idea of a triple layer (can be a b
h to repair) then there are metallic reds which look so much better on the F12 than Rosso corsa.
The other thing which might be depressing the price is the interior... Crema over Rosso carpets looks great in a F355 or 512TR but it’s a bit dated for a modern Ferrari.
Having given you all the above reasons for the attractive price, if you like it, buy it. Don’t worry about the next guy (or gal). Tastes change, fashions change and a Ferrari is an emotive purchase. Buy the one you want, not the one you’re worried that other people will want.
Jack-flash on the ‘Just got an F12’ thread has just traded in what looks like a Rosso Berlinetta or darker metallic in to Leeds. You might want to enquire about that one.
Regarding the JCT car in Rosso/Crema, you answered your own question on why it might not be selling. V12s look/sell better in darker colours. If you want red, take a look at the triple layer Rosso Berlinetta car they have. It was the launch colour. If that’s to rich and you don’t like the idea of a triple layer (can be a b
h to repair) then there are metallic reds which look so much better on the F12 than Rosso corsa. The other thing which might be depressing the price is the interior... Crema over Rosso carpets looks great in a F355 or 512TR but it’s a bit dated for a modern Ferrari.
Having given you all the above reasons for the attractive price, if you like it, buy it. Don’t worry about the next guy (or gal). Tastes change, fashions change and a Ferrari is an emotive purchase. Buy the one you want, not the one you’re worried that other people will want.
Jack-flash on the ‘Just got an F12’ thread has just traded in what looks like a Rosso Berlinetta or darker metallic in to Leeds. You might want to enquire about that one.
Edited by ANOpax on Sunday 5th July 19:40
ANOpax said:
I won’t comment on the 458 vs F12 question beyond echoing what others have said - go drive them and you’ll know. I think that given the other cars you have, the F12 will be more of a contrast than the 458.
Regarding the JCT car in Rosso/Crema, you answered your own question on why it might not be selling. V12s look/sell better in darker colours. If you want red, take a look at the triple layer Rosso Berlinetta car they have. It was the launch colour. If that’s to rich and you don’t like the idea of a triple layer (can be a bh to repair) then there are metallic reds which look so much better on the F12 than Rosso corsa.
The other thing which might be depressing the price is the interior... Crema over Rosso carpets looks great in a F355 or 512TR but it’s a bit dated for a modern Ferrari.
Having given you all the above reasons for the attractive price, if you like it, buy it. Don’t worry about the next guy (or gal). Tastes change, fashions change and a Ferrari is an emotive purchase. Buy the one you want, not the one you’re worried that other people will want.
Jack-flash on the ‘Just got an F12’ thread has just traded in what looks like a Rosso Berlinetta or darker metallic in to Leeds. You might want to enquire about that one.
I actually love it - perhaps I am just dreaming of the Testarossa I had on my boyhood wall (F40 is a little out of reach currently!). Agree fully on buying what you like - if I was smart I wouldn’t have bought an £150K Nissan right....Regarding the JCT car in Rosso/Crema, you answered your own question on why it might not be selling. V12s look/sell better in darker colours. If you want red, take a look at the triple layer Rosso Berlinetta car they have. It was the launch colour. If that’s to rich and you don’t like the idea of a triple layer (can be a b
h to repair) then there are metallic reds which look so much better on the F12 than Rosso corsa. The other thing which might be depressing the price is the interior... Crema over Rosso carpets looks great in a F355 or 512TR but it’s a bit dated for a modern Ferrari.
Having given you all the above reasons for the attractive price, if you like it, buy it. Don’t worry about the next guy (or gal). Tastes change, fashions change and a Ferrari is an emotive purchase. Buy the one you want, not the one you’re worried that other people will want.
Jack-flash on the ‘Just got an F12’ thread has just traded in what looks like a Rosso Berlinetta or darker metallic in to Leeds. You might want to enquire about that one.
Edited by ANOpax on Sunday 5th July 19:40
I am very relaxed about waiting for the right car - there is no rush and will go and have a proper drive when the current financial situation starts to show some form of stability as no point in diving in.
Wouldn’t obviously do that until fully ready to do a deal as a touch rude to waste the dealer time otherwise. I am looking forward to it greatly already.
I will be very curious to see about this steering and whether it’s as ‘bad’ in real life as purported. No one drives at 9/10ths all the time and as long as it’s ok for an occasional spirited road drive in Race without dying on a B road or NC500 etc (Pass of the cattle might be fun) that’s ok for me.
Just a touch concerned it (the Internet is a funny echo chamber) it sounds like it’s trying to murder you from the moment you turn the key haha. I suspect the reality is slightly different.
while my 458 ownership is short so far, i can say i found that it can cruise very easily without any sort of effort for driving at all. Auto mode, bumpy road it actually reminds me of my old r8 in terms of drive ability, yes its a bit loud in the cabin (not to bad) and it does crash on very harsh lanes but otherwise its nearly daily-iable. Steering is sensitive as suggested
However, switch it up and its dual personality is right there.
that really surprised me when i got mine, also i looked around a f12 and it really is a very very different car.
However, switch it up and its dual personality is right there.
that really surprised me when i got mine, also i looked around a f12 and it really is a very very different car.
willy wombat said:
I normally agree with _leg_ about most things but I don't agree that a 458 is not suitable for couples' touring. I have done a number of French and Italian trips with Mrs Wombat in the 458 (spider). She finds it comfortable and it will accommodate a surprising amount of luggage if you use squashy bags and a suit-carrier (three squashy bags and suit-carrier in the boot and a couple of smaller squashy bags behind the seats).As to whether F12 or 458 - why not one of each?
I'm also a bit partial to squashy bags 
RogGT-R - re your earlier post. Mrs Wombat also has/likes shoes in fact I have posted on here before about how, having found a shoe shop in Troyes which was having a massive sale, she balanced four boxes of shoes on her lap for the last leg through France, through the tunnel and home to Sussex.
willy wombat said:
RogGT-R - re your earlier post. Mrs Wombat also has/likes shoes in fact I have posted on here before about how, having found a shoe shop in Troyes which was having a massive sale, she balanced four boxes of shoes on her lap for the last leg through France, through the tunnel and home to Sussex.
Shocking ! 
Thank god it’s not just me as a shoe victim.
I suspect, taking all comments above into consideration, the F12 is going to be more special more of the time for my usage.
that m I get change completely when i drive them and it’s always going to be a trade off between the two but unless the steering really is as interesting as some suggest then that’s the way forward. Who can not love that noise.
Really appreciate the comments and will update when I go drive them! Is till want a red one ;-)
I suspect, taking all comments above into consideration, the F12 is going to be more special more of the time for my usage.
that m I get change completely when i drive them and it’s always going to be a trade off between the two but unless the steering really is as interesting as some suggest then that’s the way forward. Who can not love that noise.
Really appreciate the comments and will update when I go drive them! Is till want a red one ;-)
Edited by RogGT-R on Monday 6th July 21:28
RogGT-R said:
Thank god it’s not just me as a shoe victim.
I suspect, taking all comments above into consideration, the F12 is going to be more special more of the time for my usage.
that m I get change completely when i drive them and it’s always going to be a trade off between the two but unless the steering really is as interesting as some suggest then that’s the way forward. Who can not love that noise.
Really appreciate the comments and will update when I go drive them! Is till want a red one ;-)
Let's put it this way.....you will not be disappointed I suspect, taking all comments above into consideration, the F12 is going to be more special more of the time for my usage.
that m I get change completely when i drive them and it’s always going to be a trade off between the two but unless the steering really is as interesting as some suggest then that’s the way forward. Who can not love that noise.
Really appreciate the comments and will update when I go drive them! Is till want a red one ;-)
Edited by RogGT-R on Monday 6th July 21:28
willy wombat said:
I normally agree with _leg_ about most things but I don't agree that a 458 is not suitable for couples' touring. I have done a number of French and Italian trips with Mrs Wombat in the 458 (spider). She finds it comfortable and it will accommodate a surprising amount of luggage if you use squashy bags and a suit-carrier (three squashy bags and suit-carrier in the boot and a couple of smaller squashy bags behind the seats).As to whether F12 or 458 - why not one of each?
My Mrs thinks a 3* hotel is camping. She looks at me like I'm mental if I lower the roof in anything less than 30c and then complains it's too windy. She needs 1372 dress options for 2 weeks away and buys 10 whilst we're away.If you can sell her on the idea of anything less than a full sized suitcase you're a better man than I.
I've toured extensively in the 458 Spider with a mate along for the ride with bags of camera/drone gear, cool box, softbags and a 'suit' carrier as you say. It does work. It's the wife that doesn't work*. ;-)
.*I looked at a trade in but the costs were prohibitive and the finance options non existent.
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