Dreaming of my 1st Ferrari - £60k budget
Discussion
Having owned a 997 GT3 and a F430 & 458, I'll add my 2p worth thoughts to the fray...
If one of your aims is to do some track work..... I'd be in favour of keeping the GT3...
The F430 is a bit more of an event on the road for sure, however I'd be worried about the costs of tracking one compared to a GT3. Up until the 458, there was a slight air of fragility about the Ferrari build quality, definitely noticeable coming from a Porsche.
Running costs for Porsche GT cars are ridiculously low compared to other marques and the sheer durability always impressed me.
F355's & Mondials are from another era and costs can easily mount up, an unexpected bill can somewhat sour the ownership experience. As someone else said above... I've done countless track days now and not once seen a 355 let alone a Mondial on one.
360's less fragile, but still, these can be expensive cars to maintain compared to others.
Having said all that....I totally get the urge to own a Ferrari, even if it's just to get it out of your system!
If one of your aims is to do some track work..... I'd be in favour of keeping the GT3...
The F430 is a bit more of an event on the road for sure, however I'd be worried about the costs of tracking one compared to a GT3. Up until the 458, there was a slight air of fragility about the Ferrari build quality, definitely noticeable coming from a Porsche.
Running costs for Porsche GT cars are ridiculously low compared to other marques and the sheer durability always impressed me.
F355's & Mondials are from another era and costs can easily mount up, an unexpected bill can somewhat sour the ownership experience. As someone else said above... I've done countless track days now and not once seen a 355 let alone a Mondial on one.
360's less fragile, but still, these can be expensive cars to maintain compared to others.
Having said all that....I totally get the urge to own a Ferrari, even if it's just to get it out of your system!
I have seen loads of F355s and all manner of Ferraris on track days but the track days I have been to have been those arranged by the Ferrari or the Ferrari Owners' Club so all the cars are Ferraris. But it would be quite wrong to assume from what has been said that they are never tracked.
davek_964 said:
In what way was it "soft"? That's definitely not a word I'd have used to describe my 360.
I had a 996 4S, a tweaked 997S and a GT3.I would say from memory the 360 was quite soft compared to my 997S, ie during turns the suspensions were softer whereas my 997S (admittedly with uprated springs) was cornering much flatter).
jtremlett said:
I have seen loads of F355s and all manner of Ferraris on track days but the track days I have been to have been those arranged by the Ferrari or the Ferrari Owners' Club so all the cars are Ferraris. But it would be quite wrong to assume from what has been said that they are never tracked.
Indeed my 430s been on track quite a lot last year and this year and usually there are a couple of other Ferraris around as well / admittedly a lot fewer than Porsches and BMWs though If you’re considering classics, why would you choose a Mondial over a 308? In my opinion the 308 is still the ultimate in terms of “old school” Ferrari.
Sure, dynamically it’s nowhere near the 360, F430 or anything since then, but for the overall experience, style and sense of occasion, I don’t think it will ever be beaten.
Sure, dynamically it’s nowhere near the 360, F430 or anything since then, but for the overall experience, style and sense of occasion, I don’t think it will ever be beaten.
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mbwoy84 said:
If you’re considering classics, why would you choose a Mondial over a 308? In my opinion the 308 is still the ultimate in terms of “old school” Ferrari.
Sure, dynamically it’s nowhere near the 360, F430 or anything since then, but for the overall experience, style and sense of occasion, I don’t think it will ever be beaten.
Sure, dynamically it’s nowhere near the 360, F430 or anything since then, but for the overall experience, style and sense of occasion, I don’t think it will ever be beaten.
mbwoy84 said:
If you’re considering classics, why would you choose a Mondial over a 308? In my opinion the 308 is still the ultimate in terms of “old school” Ferrari.
Sure, dynamically it’s nowhere near the 360, F430 or anything since then, but for the overall experience, style and sense of occasion, I don’t think it will ever be beaten.
Couldn't have put it any better.. Sure, dynamically it’s nowhere near the 360, F430 or anything since then, but for the overall experience, style and sense of occasion, I don’t think it will ever be beaten.
I have a Mondial T cabriolet. It is not fast, presumably due to the additional weight over a 348. However you shouldn’t buy one for high speed thrills. I rarely break the speed limit in mine. It’s more for taking the family out for day trips and stuff. Sure you can rag the pants off it if you want to, but that’s not really what it’s about.
Just to bear in mind, most Ferraris will have non-standard exhausts (which you arguably want for the full experience) but none of them will pass noise regs in the UK if so.
I've had my 355 round the ring several times but at 131db, it simply doesn't pass UK noise tests.
Closest its been is car limits at North Weald and the top gear track for charity.
I love my 355 but acknowledge there's a reason everything at the ring is either M3 or 911 shaped...
I've had my 355 round the ring several times but at 131db, it simply doesn't pass UK noise tests.
Closest its been is car limits at North Weald and the top gear track for charity.
I love my 355 but acknowledge there's a reason everything at the ring is either M3 or 911 shaped...
MrVert said:
Having owned a 997 GT3 and a F430 & 458, I'll add my 2p worth thoughts to the fray...
If one of your aims is to do some track work..... I'd be in favour of keeping the GT3...
The F430 is a bit more of an event on the road for sure, however I'd be worried about the costs of tracking one compared to a GT3.
Running costs for Porsche GT cars are ridiculously low compared to other marques and the sheer durability always impressed me.
If one of your aims is to do some track work..... I'd be in favour of keeping the GT3...
The F430 is a bit more of an event on the road for sure, however I'd be worried about the costs of tracking one compared to a GT3.
Running costs for Porsche GT cars are ridiculously low compared to other marques and the sheer durability always impressed me.
To the OP, I'm doing the same search as you at the moment.
From the people I have spoken to about 360s, I would say the concensus is budget on £2k a year as an average to keep one in top condition.
And if you want to keep the running costs down, the newer the better ie 430 likely to be less than a 360 which is less than a 355.
Definitely read Voicey's content on these cars: https://aldousvoice.com/ferrari-360-f430-buying-gu...
My conclusion also coming from Porsches is that the Fezza will be a road only car for me. If you want an on-track driving experience close to a 7.2 GT3 you won't find it in a 355/360 and I would be surprised if a 430 would be close either. From what I've picked up, I suspect the running costs are going to go up significantly if you track one of those cars as well - there's a reason you see lots of Porsche GT cars on track days and hardly any Ferraris.
David
From the people I have spoken to about 360s, I would say the concensus is budget on £2k a year as an average to keep one in top condition.
And if you want to keep the running costs down, the newer the better ie 430 likely to be less than a 360 which is less than a 355.
Definitely read Voicey's content on these cars: https://aldousvoice.com/ferrari-360-f430-buying-gu...
My conclusion also coming from Porsches is that the Fezza will be a road only car for me. If you want an on-track driving experience close to a 7.2 GT3 you won't find it in a 355/360 and I would be surprised if a 430 would be close either. From what I've picked up, I suspect the running costs are going to go up significantly if you track one of those cars as well - there's a reason you see lots of Porsche GT cars on track days and hardly any Ferraris.
David
Ferrari's can make perfectly usable track cars.
355 challenge series.
360 challenge series.
Plenty of 430, 458, 488 race cars around.
However.
Turning an old road car into a race car isn't cheap.
Turning an old Ferrari into a race car is even less cheap.
Buying a 20+ yo car (Pork or donkey) and expecting it to work flawlessly on the track time after time straight away isn't realistic. You can bet the the low mileage, fully stamped cars will need all the rubber items looking at (hoses, bushes). And then a full engine out to see what's what. I bought a car with great history which turned out to have the original fuel filter on FFS.
Difference is that Porches (esp GT models) tend to get used hard, maintained and then used hard again. Old Ferraris (sadly) tend to get put under a dust sheet and taken for a sunday drive every other month, so things that are close to their use by date never get stressed enough to break and be replaced. (my 2c obvs).
Speak to Tim Walker as he runs a 355 track car (I think).
Can the car manage it? Of course. Will it be expensive to run - of course.
Its all just a function of how deep your pockets are.
355 challenge series.
360 challenge series.
Plenty of 430, 458, 488 race cars around.
However.
Turning an old road car into a race car isn't cheap.
Turning an old Ferrari into a race car is even less cheap.
Buying a 20+ yo car (Pork or donkey) and expecting it to work flawlessly on the track time after time straight away isn't realistic. You can bet the the low mileage, fully stamped cars will need all the rubber items looking at (hoses, bushes). And then a full engine out to see what's what. I bought a car with great history which turned out to have the original fuel filter on FFS.
Difference is that Porches (esp GT models) tend to get used hard, maintained and then used hard again. Old Ferraris (sadly) tend to get put under a dust sheet and taken for a sunday drive every other month, so things that are close to their use by date never get stressed enough to break and be replaced. (my 2c obvs).
Speak to Tim Walker as he runs a 355 track car (I think).
Can the car manage it? Of course. Will it be expensive to run - of course.
Its all just a function of how deep your pockets are.
I have been around this an number of times but always in addition to my 355 which I have had nearly 20 years now.
In addition to the the 355 I have had 18 x 911's aswell now.
I went through a 355,360,430,550 and to be honest I wouldnt track any of these. They have all been around the track but they are nothing like a 911 RS or similar.
The 355 is still a experience everytime I use it and I never found that with the 360 or 430, I also just drove the F8 and thats amazing but its just like driving a normal car.
If it was me I would go Ferrari for the road and then cheap track car say an elise S1, you can get a cat d or c car for £10kish.
Or the better way if the Ferrrai scratch need to be itched and it must be tracked then get a 360 or 430 challenge car and put it back on the road whaich has been done a number of times.
Phib
In addition to the the 355 I have had 18 x 911's aswell now.
I went through a 355,360,430,550 and to be honest I wouldnt track any of these. They have all been around the track but they are nothing like a 911 RS or similar.
The 355 is still a experience everytime I use it and I never found that with the 360 or 430, I also just drove the F8 and thats amazing but its just like driving a normal car.
If it was me I would go Ferrari for the road and then cheap track car say an elise S1, you can get a cat d or c car for £10kish.
Or the better way if the Ferrrai scratch need to be itched and it must be tracked then get a 360 or 430 challenge car and put it back on the road whaich has been done a number of times.
Phib
Six years ago I wanted a Ferrari that I could track. I settled on the 430 as it was a good combination of power, cost and reliability. Yes some known weaknesses but easily rectified. I wanted the F1 gearbox and a relatively hardcore experience. The Scud was too much money (for me) to track regularly and a road-legal Challenge was again a pretty pretty expensive project at that time. I went for a 2005 F430 at £70k, stripped out 120kg of weight, added 380mm 6 pot AP racing brakes to the front, stiffer springs, sports exhaust and a DMS remap to circa 520bhp. For circa £85k I now have a road legal track fezza with a better power to weight than the Scud and an absolute blast to track and tour. Perhaps a route you may want to consider.
phib said:
I have been around this an number of times but always in addition to my 355 which I have had nearly 20 years now.
In addition to the the 355 I have had 18 x 911's aswell now.
I went through a 355,360,430,550 and to be honest I wouldnt track any of these. They have all been around the track but they are nothing like a 911 RS or similar.
The 355 is still a experience everytime I use it and I never found that with the 360 or 430, I also just drove the F8 and thats amazing but its just like driving a normal car.
If it was me I would go Ferrari for the road and then cheap track car say an elise S1, you can get a cat d or c car for £10kish.
Or the better way if the Ferrrai scratch need to be itched and it must be tracked then get a 360 or 430 challenge car and put it back on the road whaich has been done a number of times.
Phib
Just as an aside, I am not sure you would get much pleasure from trying to go around corners / roundabouts in a 430 Challenge - might well involve looking like a tit by reversing a couple of times when going through quaint little UK villages. In addition to the the 355 I have had 18 x 911's aswell now.
I went through a 355,360,430,550 and to be honest I wouldnt track any of these. They have all been around the track but they are nothing like a 911 RS or similar.
The 355 is still a experience everytime I use it and I never found that with the 360 or 430, I also just drove the F8 and thats amazing but its just like driving a normal car.
If it was me I would go Ferrari for the road and then cheap track car say an elise S1, you can get a cat d or c car for £10kish.
Or the better way if the Ferrrai scratch need to be itched and it must be tracked then get a 360 or 430 challenge car and put it back on the road whaich has been done a number of times.
Phib
MDL111 said:
Just as an aside, I am not sure you would get much pleasure from trying to go around corners / roundabouts in a 430 Challenge - might well involve looking like a tit by reversing a couple of times when going through quaint little UK villages.
I never had that issue driving one, I didnt convert it so it might have had the rack attended too, I absolutely loved driving it when I had it, the sense of occasion was 2nd only to the F40 (I didnt own it though!!)I do love hardcore race cars on the road, probably a bit too extreme for most.
Phib
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