Ferrari purosangue - just thrown away my Ferrari cap

Ferrari purosangue - just thrown away my Ferrari cap

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Discussion

jasonwdh

86 posts

73 months

Thursday 8th April
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MDL111 said:
generally happy with them building an SUV - at least then you can tow your track car with a Ferrari. What is a shame though, is that the FF/Lusso cars are not being replaced as a result.
High-reving, relatively sporty V12 4-seater with 4wd is/was an exceptional product not offered by anybody else.
as long as there's an option for 5 seats! Some of us unexpectedly had twins second time round!

On the original point, the luxury SUV market is a very lucrative one that Ferrari are not yet in - and they need to be! Porsche GT sales don't seem to have diminished since the Cayenne/Macan were launched - where's the brand dilution?

priley

468 posts

152 months

Thursday 8th April
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It's possibly been mentioned but perhaps if it sells well with a V8/V6 they envisage moving it to electric before the sports cars thus enabling them to reduce their CO2 emissions as a percentage of cars sold.

MingtheMerciless

345 posts

173 months

Thursday 8th April
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Well if that means they can keep ICE for the (diminishing) parts of the range I am interested in, carry on I say.

Not on topic but of the range I have zero interest for some reason in the SF90. I have little interest in the F8 because it's a turbo 458 derivative (a bit dismissive but I've driven it). I await the special version with some interest. I like the Roma. I quite like the...I'm sorry I just can't remember now what the new Cali is called, but probably wouldn't buy one. Is there anything else? They had better not rely on me.

Of the current range it means I'd consider the Roma and a special version of the F8.

sparta6

2,503 posts

64 months

Thursday 8th April
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SSO said:
Ferrari really does not need to do this. Just finished this blog on the topic:

While not officially confirmed that Ferrari will be launching an SUV in 2022, rumored to be called the Purosangue, it is one of the world’s worst kept secrets. The funny thing is Ferrari spent years denying they would ever launch an SUV. The former CEO, Louis Camilleri, stated that he hated the word SUV and that it did not belong in the same sentence with Ferrari. Other Ferrari executives have stated that a SUV is not part of Ferrari’s DNA and the Enzo would roll over in his grave if it were to happen. Yet here we are. Poor Enzo is being set up to do a 180 and Ferrari’s DNA looks like it’s about to be permanently mutated.

Two questions come to mind; #1 why and #2 is it a good idea? I am sure that Ferrari will issue a very polished press release when they launch the Purosangue which will not call it a SUV and will explain why it is the right move for the Ferrari brand. However, I think the core reasons are quite basic, money and fear of losing out. On both counts, I believe Ferrari is being both shortsighted and misjudging the impact of their brand. It’s hard to argue against the fact that in the short term, a Ferrari SUV will boost the top line. While it might be margin dilutive, on a cash basis, it should add incremental profitability. However, there are easier ways for Ferrari to goose its financial results without having to put the essence of its DNA at risk.

With a near two year wait list, increasing production capacity to meet the excess demand on the existing portfolio would achieve much of the same outcome. Ferrari is also potentially losing a fair number of customers that simply don’t want to wait that long to get their car. Increasing production capacity so the wait list can be brought down to a more reasonable six months would not only increase sales for the few years it takes to ramp up production, but it would also give a long term boast as potential customers who would have walked away in the past, will now stay.

On the “fear of losing out” on the SUV craze, this is where I really believe Ferrari is making a mistake. They can afford to lose out. SUVs are not who they are, and they will detract Ferrari from being true to its core essence. Can Ferrari sell 5,000 SUVs a year? I am sure they can. Could Ferrari sell an additional 5,000 units of other models in the current portfolio if they really wanted to? I am sure they could do this too. While the SUV risks changing the core essence of the Ferrari brand, increasing production of the existing supercar portfolio has little to no risk. What’s driving this fear? Mostly what the Volkswagen Group has done with Bentley & Lamborghini and to a lesser extent Aston Martin. When I looked at the numbers though, the picture on if getting into SUVs is a huge success its not exactly clear cut. Also, it’s important to keep in mind that VW builds the Bentayga and Urus off of the same platform used for the Audi Q7 so the added development cost & complexity on the manufacturing side is fairly minimal.

As Bentley’s annual unit sales are similar to Ferraris, Bentley is an interesting case to look at. In 2014, the last year pre the Bentley Bentayga SUV launch, VW sold 11,033 Bentleys, in 2019 VW sold 12,430 Bentleys of which 5,232 were Bentaygas (I am using 2019 as it’s a cleaner base. 2020’s numbers are distorted by all the disruptions caused by Covid-19). That’s a 2.4% CAGR in terms of units and on a € basis the CAGR is only slightly better at 3.7%. It is not exactly impressive and hardly a major success. Net net, the vast majority of the Bentayga sales came from cannibalizing other Bentley models.

The Lamborghini numbers tell a bit of a different and much rosier story at first glance. I don’t believe it is as relevant to Ferrari given Lamborghinis much lower starting base and weaker brand equity. To give you an idea of the importance of Lamborghini in the VW Group, while even Seat and Skoda’s financial results are broken out, Lamborghini’s are just lumped in with Audi’s. In 2016, the last year prior to the Lamborghini Urus SUV launch, VW Group sold 3,579 Lamborghinis. In 2019, 8,664 Lamborghinis were sold. Of the 8,664 Lambos, 5,233 were Urus’ which would indicate that the Urus brough new buyers into the Lamborghini brand and the volume was fully incremental. The added volume would certainly have been a welcomed by the dealer network and taken Lamborghini from a borderline brand to relevant and more supportable. When looking at shorter term sales trends though, it seems that Urus sales have now flattened and will likely remain in the 5,000 units per annum range going forward. Lamborghini now has a situation where 60% of their sales are SUVs and the way this will change brand perception in the medium to long term is significant. For VW, turning Lamborghini into a SUV brand is probably not a major concern as long as that moves more units. What is also interesting is both Bentley and Lamborghini seem to have topped out at around 5,000 units for their respective SUVs.

So, is selling roughly 5,000 SUVs a year a good business decision for Ferrari? If they need to increase total volumes by 5,000 units, there are a lot of other ways to get there that do not put the brand at risk, add a huge amount of extra complexity to an already highly complex supply chain, and may cause poor Enzo to do back flips. On a purely profit basis, Ferrari will make more money on 500 next generation LaFerraris then it will on selling 5,000 Purosangues. Ferrari’s current market capitalization is $52 billion which means the market values Ferrari at $5.48 million for every car it produced in 2020. No other car company comes even remotely close (next closest is Tesla with a valuation at $1.2 million per car produced). That number will not hold if you throw 5,000 SUVs into the product mix. While SUVs may be the hot thing today, they might not be tomorrow and once launched, a Ferrari SUV is not something you can undo. Ferrari has done a great job of building shareholder value over the last half decade without an SUV and there is no reason it suddenly needs one now to continue to do so.
Excellent appraisal.

The SUV sector is now being exposed for what it really is.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/apr/0...

Ferruccio

1,503 posts

83 months

Thursday 8th April
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If the Guardian are against it.........

sparta6

2,503 posts

64 months

Thursday 8th April
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Ferruccio said:
If the Guardian are against it.........
merely tip of the iceberg

jasonwdh

86 posts

73 months

Thursday 8th April
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sparta6 said:
The SUV sector is now being exposed for what it really is.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/apr/0...
Guardian in exposee of the "real" use of SUVs - haha - did anyone actually think most of them were used off-road confused

You could use the same logic against super cars/hyper cars if you wanted to...

gbrown2014

160 posts

77 months

Thursday 8th April
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Supercars much less likely to rack up the mileage of the Chelsea tractor!

If there was major investment into electric charging points in these areas I think many could be tempted into the switch to electric for their city runabouts

drcarrera

675 posts

189 months

Thursday 8th April
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I think that article (and other similar reports I've seen) rather misses the point. People aren't buying them in some mistaken desire to be able to go off-road. They're buying them because they have plenty of space for families, great visibility due to the raised driving position and in many cases a good level of perceived "luxury". The fact they "could" go off road is irrelevant to most.

Twenty years ago they'd probably be buying MPVs but that segment has now morphed into SUVs so that's what they're buying.

Personally I'm not a massive fan and many are ridiculously large (but the "oversizing" issue can be applied to pretty much all segments) but I can see why people buy them. In five years time most will be electric anyway so the pollution argument won't stick, at least for new ones.

sparta6

2,503 posts

64 months

Friday 9th April
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browngt3 said:
Agree with much of what's been said.

We live in a very different world now to the one when Enzo was alive. China is the big consumer now and unfortunately they seem to like grotesquely ugly giant SUVs. Like most Ferrari enthusiasts I also dread the prospect of them making one. Conversely the Italians do make better looking ones than anybody else. Witness the Maserati Levante although I'd never buy one.

To me a much bigger concern is electrification. The first ever Ferrari was a V12 and they've been central to the brand's identity ever since. Wasn't the last ever V12 F1 car a Ferrari? Now I hear they might be extinct in the road cars before long. Let's hope synthetic fuels will save the day. The world will be a much poorer place without a Ferrari V12.

What would Enzo make of it all now I wonder? Reckon he'd be pretty pissed off with the F1 team more than anything else...
China unleashes yet more ugliness into the world.

Agree that easy, vanilla, auto-lumps are their preference.

F1 ? Enzo would be pretty pissed off with Jean Todt's preference for Mercedes objectives

biggrin






WCZ

8,372 posts

158 months

Friday 9th April
quotequote all
drcarrera said:
I think that article (and other similar reports I've seen) rather misses the point. People aren't buying them in some mistaken desire to be able to go off-road. They're buying them because they have plenty of space for families, great visibility due to the raised driving position and in many cases a good level of perceived "luxury". The fact they "could" go off road is irrelevant to most.
agreed, no one cares about offroad abilities in 4x4 cars


ThePackMan

291 posts

30 months

Friday 9th April
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WCZ said:
drcarrera said:
I think that article (and other similar reports I've seen) rather misses the point. People aren't buying them in some mistaken desire to be able to go off-road. They're buying them because they have plenty of space for families, great visibility due to the raised driving position and in many cases a good level of perceived "luxury". The fact they "could" go off road is irrelevant to most.
agreed, no one cares about offroad abilities in 4x4 cars
I think it's a question of authenticity, that's why LR etc. all make sure that their product is very capable in an offroad environment. Otherwise they would sell much less vehicles to the much bigger "onroad" consumer. Those consumers want an authentic product.

SSO

1,069 posts

155 months

Friday 9th April
quotequote all
priley said:
It's possibly been mentioned but perhaps if it sells well with a V8/V6 they envisage moving it to electric before the sports cars thus enabling them to reduce their CO2 emissions as a percentage of cars sold.
I have heard Ferrari views the SUV as a safer avenue for getting there CO2 emissions down and will likely be coming out with an EV version fairly soon after the launch.