Anyone know this car?
Discussion
Hi belfry
No I didn't get to see it, we agreed a price subject to me seeing it etc. But he was talked out of it by auction house so I didn't bother going to see it. The lumpy running is odd as it can be so many things and varying costs to put right. The auction house advised him to get an mot, which we know it failed. He told me that he was not going to do the work to get it through the mot. As you say that in itself is odd as will definitely affect price at auction. He paid 38 grand for car last year. So big question does he know more than he is admitting to? He struck me as a really nice genuine guy but who knows. My gut feeling it will still make the high end of estimate maybe more.
No I didn't get to see it, we agreed a price subject to me seeing it etc. But he was talked out of it by auction house so I didn't bother going to see it. The lumpy running is odd as it can be so many things and varying costs to put right. The auction house advised him to get an mot, which we know it failed. He told me that he was not going to do the work to get it through the mot. As you say that in itself is odd as will definitely affect price at auction. He paid 38 grand for car last year. So big question does he know more than he is admitting to? He struck me as a really nice genuine guy but who knows. My gut feeling it will still make the high end of estimate maybe more.
scott64 said:
Hi belfry
No I didn't get to see it, we agreed a price subject to me seeing it etc. But he was talked out of it by auction house so I didn't bother going to see it. The lumpy running is odd as it can be so many things and varying costs to put right. The auction house advised him to get an mot, which we know it failed. He told me that he was not going to do the work to get it through the mot. As you say that in itself is odd as will definitely affect price at auction. He paid 38 grand for car last year. So big question does he know more than he is admitting to? He struck me as a really nice genuine guy but who knows. My gut feeling it will still make the high end of estimate maybe more.
Pays £38k for car but prepared to lose £20k at auction? Surely the missing piece is the £20k estimate for the remedial work. So which specialist did he take it to I wonder?...No I didn't get to see it, we agreed a price subject to me seeing it etc. But he was talked out of it by auction house so I didn't bother going to see it. The lumpy running is odd as it can be so many things and varying costs to put right. The auction house advised him to get an mot, which we know it failed. He told me that he was not going to do the work to get it through the mot. As you say that in itself is odd as will definitely affect price at auction. He paid 38 grand for car last year. So big question does he know more than he is admitting to? He struck me as a really nice genuine guy but who knows. My gut feeling it will still make the high end of estimate maybe more.
lumpy running could be just a bad spark plug, had one on my 456GT go a few years back, after being replaced less than 12 months/3k miles earlier.
not sure if the M had OBDII proper - the GT has a diagnostic port, but I've never used it with the adaptor to OBDII I bought a few years ago. That would tell you engine faults quite easy.
My temptation for the lumpy running would be replace all the plugs first, and get some magnecor spark plug leads made second.
Bilstien shocks cost me about £300 for a pair to get refurbed about 6 years ago, wasn't quick as people have pointed out.
Its the self levelling part that leaks, and BMW 7 series parts will fit.
if you need to replace the radiator, why not get one made - would be far cheaper than Ferrari prices. That's assuming it can't just be repaired by a local radiator specialist, just don't tell them its out of your Ferrari!
A decent specialist and someone with some basic mechanical knowledge is able to work on these cars quite easily.
You don't have to go to the main dealer for everything, quite a few parts are available elsewhere, it just takes time to find them.
Suggest join ferrarichat.com too - the 456 section is quite handy.
If this does make £40k, I'd have been more tempted to get a manual GT, and maybe look at the non-M's (as personally I think there prettier, but then I am biased)
not sure if the M had OBDII proper - the GT has a diagnostic port, but I've never used it with the adaptor to OBDII I bought a few years ago. That would tell you engine faults quite easy.
My temptation for the lumpy running would be replace all the plugs first, and get some magnecor spark plug leads made second.
Bilstien shocks cost me about £300 for a pair to get refurbed about 6 years ago, wasn't quick as people have pointed out.
Its the self levelling part that leaks, and BMW 7 series parts will fit.
if you need to replace the radiator, why not get one made - would be far cheaper than Ferrari prices. That's assuming it can't just be repaired by a local radiator specialist, just don't tell them its out of your Ferrari!
A decent specialist and someone with some basic mechanical knowledge is able to work on these cars quite easily.
You don't have to go to the main dealer for everything, quite a few parts are available elsewhere, it just takes time to find them.
Suggest join ferrarichat.com too - the 456 section is quite handy.
If this does make £40k, I'd have been more tempted to get a manual GT, and maybe look at the non-M's (as personally I think there prettier, but then I am biased)
I don't trust anyone who can't be bothered or can't afford to maintain a car properly, I'm sorry to say, doesn't matter whether it's a Ferrari or a Focus.
I'm sure the chap sounds very nice but he's trying to offload the car and (in my opinion) minimising the work required to get it back up and running. My bet was that he actually did find out how much it would cost to put right and baulked at the price. It's a deceit as old as time when someone suggests that putting something right "should" cost next to nothing, but that they "haven't had the time" to do it themselves, etc...
Think about it this way - if you were the owner would you willingly sacrifice a large amount of money admitting to the things he has (because it's stuff he can't avoid admitting) when you could just get it repaired and not lose that money instead? Lumpy running could be a spark plug, as mentioned above, but I'd wager the seller already knows it isn't..
I'm sure the chap sounds very nice but he's trying to offload the car and (in my opinion) minimising the work required to get it back up and running. My bet was that he actually did find out how much it would cost to put right and baulked at the price. It's a deceit as old as time when someone suggests that putting something right "should" cost next to nothing, but that they "haven't had the time" to do it themselves, etc...
Think about it this way - if you were the owner would you willingly sacrifice a large amount of money admitting to the things he has (because it's stuff he can't avoid admitting) when you could just get it repaired and not lose that money instead? Lumpy running could be a spark plug, as mentioned above, but I'd wager the seller already knows it isn't..
In the seller's defence they could just feel it's good money after bad or perhaps aren't in a position to raise the money required to do the work, having discovered the cost of running a V12 Ferrari the hard way. In short they just want to out but want to at least see some of their money back.
You may well be right. but I wonder how much that will end up costing him? What would you bid for this car if you were in the market?
I thought that this car sold at the Brooklands auction for £48,800 last year. If he gets £25,000 at the auction his loss will be £23,800, and that's a lot of cash.
PS priley I came to see your 612 in 2015 but ended up buying a slightly newer one. What did you change to after the 612?
I thought that this car sold at the Brooklands auction for £48,800 last year. If he gets £25,000 at the auction his loss will be £23,800, and that's a lot of cash.
PS priley I came to see your 612 in 2015 but ended up buying a slightly newer one. What did you change to after the 612?
Durzel said:
I don't trust anyone who can't be bothered or can't afford to maintain a car properly, I'm sorry to say, doesn't matter whether it's a Ferrari or a Focus.
I'm sure the chap sounds very nice but he's trying to offload the car and (in my opinion) minimising the work required to get it back up and running. My bet was that he actually did find out how much it would cost to put right and baulked at the price. It's a deceit as old as time when someone suggests that putting something right "should" cost next to nothing, but that they "haven't had the time" to do it themselves, etc...
Think about it this way - if you were the owner would you willingly sacrifice a large amount of money admitting to the things he has (because it's stuff he can't avoid admitting) when you could just get it repaired and not lose that money instead? Lumpy running could be a spark plug, as mentioned above, but I'd wager the seller already knows it isn't..
That's what I said. I bet there's an indie out there who presented him with a big estimate for the remedial work. Question is which one? Big risk to buy this car even at £20k unless you're in the trade. And even then it's a high miler which will have an effect on its resale value.I'm sure the chap sounds very nice but he's trying to offload the car and (in my opinion) minimising the work required to get it back up and running. My bet was that he actually did find out how much it would cost to put right and baulked at the price. It's a deceit as old as time when someone suggests that putting something right "should" cost next to nothing, but that they "haven't had the time" to do it themselves, etc...
Think about it this way - if you were the owner would you willingly sacrifice a large amount of money admitting to the things he has (because it's stuff he can't avoid admitting) when you could just get it repaired and not lose that money instead? Lumpy running could be a spark plug, as mentioned above, but I'd wager the seller already knows it isn't..
belfry said:
PS priley I came to see your 612 in 2015 but ended up buying a slightly newer one. What did you change to after the 612?
Hello belfry, I remember! I bought a LHD 550 which I recently advertised for sale with a view to moving into a 456. However after finally driving a 456 after years of swooning over them I was left somewhat disappointed with the drive, especially after the 550. I came home and took the advert down as I'm not sure what to do; part of me misses the 612, they're just so large! However I could use some rear seats again! First World problem.OK update have spoken to the vendor at great length. I asked if he knew what was wrong with engine. He said it was likely to be a valve issue requiring head off etc. So I assume he had in fact had it looked at and diagnosed and cost of repair unsavoury. He also confirmed he is not putting through an MOT so the auction listing is a little misleading.
Durzel said:
"likely to be a valve issue"
So basically he's still being economical with his knowledge of the issues.
As I said, there's an indie out there who's looked at the car and told him what it'll cost to out right. He's chucking it into auction as the easiest way of getting shot of it with no comebacks. Caveat Emptor and all that....So basically he's still being economical with his knowledge of the issues.
rubystone said:
Durzel said:
"likely to be a valve issue"
So basically he's still being economical with his knowledge of the issues.
As I said, there's an indie out there who's looked at the car and told him what it'll cost to out right. He's chucking it into auction as the easiest way of getting shot of it with no comebacks. Caveat Emptor and all that....So basically he's still being economical with his knowledge of the issues.
I will go and have a look at it - sum Mrs Mar being on side....
del mar said:
Whilst Ferrari valve issues can easily run into 5 figure sums to put right, they tend to show themselves up earlier in the cars life - there are loads of 355 issues on Fchat, to get to 82,000 miles would suggest that they are ok ?
I will go and have a look at it - sum Mrs Mar being on side....
I know nothing about valve issues on V12s. FWIW my 575 has hit 72,000 miles without any valve issues in its lifetime. It's more about that cost of putting right what is wrong. For the vendor to be aware the car has 'valve issues' suggests strongly that he has had someone look at it and has been given a (steep) estimate for repair and has decided to cut his (considerable) losses by offloading it in an auction. I will go and have a look at it - sum Mrs Mar being on side....
Davo456gt said:
think a lot of the valve issues were with US cars, due to the high sulphur content of fuel in the US
Not so. It's a guide issue not a valve issue and it's to do with the material the guide was made of. FWIW cars do still surface to this day that require heads off, guides etc, and it isn't cheap. I had the heads off a 456 just a few months ago for exactly this, there isn't really a correlation between mileage, fuels used, service (or lack therof) and guide issues...Cerberaherts said:
Not so. It's a guide issue not a valve issue and it's to do with the material the guide was made of. FWIW cars do still surface to this day that require heads off, guides etc, and it isn't cheap. I had the heads off a 456 just a few months ago for exactly this, there isn't really a correlation between mileage, fuels used, service (or lack therof) and guide issues...
A classic case of putting parts out to tender and going with the cheapest option !It made £36,000 !! It started with a phone bid at £31,000
I was already at £25,000 it didn't sound great but there was no black smoke coming out the exhausts.
It was a bit smoky though and as it drove off there was smoke / steam coming through the front wheel arches !!
It made £38k last year when it worked and £36k now that it doesn't.
I guess that is good news for for owners with working low mileage cars.
Scott - love to know what you negotiated with him for a price !!
I was already at £25,000 it didn't sound great but there was no black smoke coming out the exhausts.
It was a bit smoky though and as it drove off there was smoke / steam coming through the front wheel arches !!
It made £38k last year when it worked and £36k now that it doesn't.
I guess that is good news for for owners with working low mileage cars.
Scott - love to know what you negotiated with him for a price !!
I was there it definitely a rely smelt rich, and it had some paintwork on off side. Right wait for it he accepted 20k he said he thought that was a fair offer. For him to have said that I think there is a major issue lurking. I am tempted to email him and see if now it has sold he will reveal all? Don't know about you but I thought the prices were bonkers. I also bid on the merc250se coupe but gave up at 20 ended up at 25,500 plus the commission. It amazes me why they put some modern tat in like the discovery and lexus convertable?
Gassing Station | Ferrari V12 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff