Lawsuit: Ferrari has device to reset odometers?
Discussion
About 1 in 10 of all cars (all brands) are clocked in the UK. It is fairly widespread. Leased cars are seeing a lot of it at the moment. Leasers rent a car for, say, 10k miles over two years, run it up to 20k miles, and then a man in a van with a laptop pops round the week before handback and OBDs it back down to 9950 miles.
Not foolproof, but I keep my service books properly stamped with the recorded mileage. I wouldn't buy any Ferrari without a detailed and credible service book.
Plus on cars like the F50, I understand a mechanic can see the miles/kms delivered by each gear. I'm sure if someone wants to check on other cars there's ways of doing so.
The laugh is, some new owners are happy to turn a blind eye. Yes, they'd rather pay more in the comfort their new Ferrari has only "delivery miles".
Plus on cars like the F50, I understand a mechanic can see the miles/kms delivered by each gear. I'm sure if someone wants to check on other cars there's ways of doing so.
The laugh is, some new owners are happy to turn a blind eye. Yes, they'd rather pay more in the comfort their new Ferrari has only "delivery miles".
"Lawsuit: Ferrari has device to reset odometers?"
No biggie. Every man and his dog could lay their hands on such a device if they were so inclined. "Mileage correction" devices are credible enough tools when used correctly, i.e., setting the correct mileage on a car if the device displaying the mileage has been replaced, but is obviously open to abuse.
"If these accusations are indeed true, it means the mileage of any late-model Ferrari is in question"
Clocking Ferraris is as old as the hills. It isn't just late models. Buy on condition.
No biggie. Every man and his dog could lay their hands on such a device if they were so inclined. "Mileage correction" devices are credible enough tools when used correctly, i.e., setting the correct mileage on a car if the device displaying the mileage has been replaced, but is obviously open to abuse.
"If these accusations are indeed true, it means the mileage of any late-model Ferrari is in question"
Clocking Ferraris is as old as the hills. It isn't just late models. Buy on condition.
Camlet said:
I wouldn't buy any Ferrari without a detailed and credible service book.
This and a thorough independent inspection. Then ignore the mileage - assume it's inaccurate - and buy on condition.I agree, but it's humorously suggested among Ferrari communities that pretty much every used Ferrari out there has been clocked as values are so mileage sensitive. Not condoning it, just saying it's a part of the landscape and that seasoned Ferrari buyers generally factor it into their due diligence.
Will wait to see what comes of the lawsuit really, if anything.
As has been said above Ferraris are very mileage sensitive. On a LaFerrari, per the allegation, the difference in value between sub-1000 miles and 10k+ would, I'm sure, run into several hundred thousand pounds. In that context, and even with lesser margins you can see why it's such big business.
As the guy said above it's taken as read by anyone looking at these cars that this is the landscape you're dealing with.
As has been said above Ferraris are very mileage sensitive. On a LaFerrari, per the allegation, the difference in value between sub-1000 miles and 10k+ would, I'm sure, run into several hundred thousand pounds. In that context, and even with lesser margins you can see why it's such big business.
As the guy said above it's taken as read by anyone looking at these cars that this is the landscape you're dealing with.
king was not.Its a little more complex than a bloke with a laptop hitting zero....
http://jalopnik.com/ferrari-accused-of-allowing-il...
Article states..... The nature of the Ferrari DEIS Tester itself suggests that any actions undertaken using the DEIS Tester tool was not simply the choice of the local dealership, Ferrari of Palm Beach, because each use of the tool requires online authorization from Ferrari. In other words, this was systemic, not isolated.
http://jalopnik.com/ferrari-accused-of-allowing-il...
Article states..... The nature of the Ferrari DEIS Tester itself suggests that any actions undertaken using the DEIS Tester tool was not simply the choice of the local dealership, Ferrari of Palm Beach, because each use of the tool requires online authorization from Ferrari. In other words, this was systemic, not isolated.
v8ksn said:
Its a little more complex than a bloke with a laptop hitting zero....
http://jalopnik.com/ferrari-accused-of-allowing-il...
Article states..... The nature of the Ferrari DEIS Tester itself suggests that any actions undertaken using the DEIS Tester tool was not simply the choice of the local dealership, Ferrari of Palm Beach, because each use of the tool requires online authorization from Ferrari. In other words, this was systemic, not isolated.
It is very important to note that this is an accusation that hasn't yet gone to court or in any way been proven and it is very hard to see what Ferrari could possibly gain if it were true. So I strongly suggest reserving judgement until further details emerge.http://jalopnik.com/ferrari-accused-of-allowing-il...
Article states..... The nature of the Ferrari DEIS Tester itself suggests that any actions undertaken using the DEIS Tester tool was not simply the choice of the local dealership, Ferrari of Palm Beach, because each use of the tool requires online authorization from Ferrari. In other words, this was systemic, not isolated.
Jonathan
jtremlett said:
t is very important to note that this is an accusation that hasn't yet gone to court or in any way been proven and it is very hard to see what Ferrari could possibly gain if it were true. So I strongly suggest reserving judgement until further details emerge.
Jonathan
I agree its only an accusation at the moment with nothing proved but as for it being 'very hard to see what Ferrari could possibly gain' I disagree. Surely having low mileage cars in their dealership network to help keep the prices of used models high (or even very close to retail price) can only be beneficial to Ferrari. Jonathan
jtremlett said:
t is very important to note that this is an accusation that hasn't yet gone to court or in any way been proven and it is very hard to see what Ferrari could possibly gain if it were true. So I strongly suggest reserving judgement until further details emerge.
Especially as, in the States at least, "odometer fraud" is illegal so if Ferrari were advising dealers formally to do this then they'd be potentially landing themselves in some hot water. Over here clocking isn't illegal, but misrepresenting the mileage of a vehicle is, though one wonders what the point of clocking is if not to misrepresent.
Ferrari world is rife with this sort of thing, I mean you'd think they start going backward at 25k miles automatically. I know of a 360 that's up for sale with a reputable dealer and 3 years or so ago it had little if any service record, it had stood still for the last 7 years serviced twice. Roll forward to very recently glowing report on dealers website with full documented history, stamped service history the lot!
How's that happen then?
How's that happen then?
jtremlett said:
v8ksn said:
Its a little more complex than a bloke with a laptop hitting zero....
http://jalopnik.com/ferrari-accused-of-allowing-il...
Article states..... The nature of the Ferrari DEIS Tester itself suggests that any actions undertaken using the DEIS Tester tool was not simply the choice of the local dealership, Ferrari of Palm Beach, because each use of the tool requires online authorization from Ferrari. In other words, this was systemic, not isolated.
It is very important to note that this is an accusation that hasn't yet gone to court or in any way been proven and it is very hard to see what Ferrari could possibly gain if it were true. So I strongly suggest reserving judgement until further details emerge.http://jalopnik.com/ferrari-accused-of-allowing-il...
Article states..... The nature of the Ferrari DEIS Tester itself suggests that any actions undertaken using the DEIS Tester tool was not simply the choice of the local dealership, Ferrari of Palm Beach, because each use of the tool requires online authorization from Ferrari. In other words, this was systemic, not isolated.
Jonathan
Everybody wants to buy a 30k 10 year old Ferrari. So that's what everyone conspires to create. Owners, dealers, next owners. It's in nobody's interest to rock the boat, and everybody's interest that it continue.
Back in the early noughties F40's were circa £150k and all had circa 20k on the clock, there were some with 25-30k on the clock.
Today they're what....£800k and pretty much all have 5-10k on the clock. I can't remember the last time I saw one advertised with 20k miles(!)
Perhaps low mileage ones are crap so people want to get rid of them, but high mileage ones are better and so owners want to keep them....?
....or maybe not!
lol!
Today they're what....£800k and pretty much all have 5-10k on the clock. I can't remember the last time I saw one advertised with 20k miles(!)
Perhaps low mileage ones are crap so people want to get rid of them, but high mileage ones are better and so owners want to keep them....?
....or maybe not!
lol!
SpeckledJim said:
Nobody wants to buy a 70k 10 year old Ferrari. But that's what they all actually are.
Everybody wants to buy a 30k 10 year old Ferrari. So that's what everyone conspires to create. Owners, dealers, next owners. It's in nobody's interest to rock the boat, and everybody's interest that it continue.
My, that's a broad brush you're wielding there.Everybody wants to buy a 30k 10 year old Ferrari. So that's what everyone conspires to create. Owners, dealers, next owners. It's in nobody's interest to rock the boat, and everybody's interest that it continue.
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