Thoughts on this FF

[Zanderman]

Hi All,

In my never ending journey to find my new car a FF is on the short list. I really like the looks, the practicality (I have 3 teenage sons) and the fact that is still a supercar. Seems to pretty much tick all the boxes for me but would be at the top end of my budget.

So in looking for one I have seen this one that is a little high on the mileage but looks really nice and is a really good price. Only thing that would bother me is the lack of warranty but in theroy it would be cheap enough that I could have a Ferarri warranty put on when I buy it.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...


I dont really know these cars well so wanted some views on colour, spec etc of them and what you all think of this particular car. Also if not this one is there better options you have seen out there. Dont really want to spend any more than £150k ish.

Thanks!

[MDL111]

The spec looks pretty good from the description - seems to have had quite a bit of money thrown at it.
The mileage is not an issue, these are daily drivers that by definition get driven more (also pretty much every Ferrari seems to get better by driving it / probably pretty much applies to every car)
I have not followed UK prices, but seems pretty cheap to me

Good luck with your purchase - they are awesome cars

[F355GTS]

I'd be on the phone for this one, it's been on the market for a good 5 Months and price has been dropped a bit already, negotiate hard and to include a factory warranty. Despite the FF being more useable they are price sensitive and a car with nearly 30k on already plus what you add will take a reasonable hit come resale time

[mpbcs]

I test drove this car before buying mine. Looks good in the flesh and spec is ok. The lack of a dealer warranty scared the hell out of me and I think the one offered had a very low max payout per claim, so you could be left with some hefty bills if anything went wrong. I tried it back in November, so I guess a low bid might be worth a try.

[TP321]

The main issue with this car is the mileage. Main dealers will not buy anything with over 30k miles and some cars cannot be fitted with the factory warranty due to past history. Too many of these FFs have been sitting around for ages now but this is not being reflected in the prices which dont seem to budge. I think they made more sense a few years ago when you could buy a 2 year old one for £160k and 5k miles. Not sure they are a bargain now though.

[Zanderman]

I must admit it appears that the market for these has gone a little strange. Seems like thye have been increasing in price or at least havent moved. Not sure what to do now really as I could end up being stuck with an overpriced car which at these prices could be financial suicide!

Shame of it is I think I really want one now...............

[MDL111]

Zanderman said:

I must admit it appears that the market for these has gone a little strange. Seems like thye have been increasing in price or at least havent moved. Not sure what to do now really as I could end up being stuck with an overpriced car which at these prices could be financial suicide!

Shame of it is I think I really want one now...............

Don't think it is going to cost more than a new Panamera Turbo or similar car over say 3-4 years - so don't see how it is financial suicide relatively speaking. At some point prices might even flatten - so over say 10 years and another 100k miles it might not even cost that much per year - certainly a whole lot less than the first 30k miles cost

[rubystone]

Dealer looks like Austin Owen (aircraft in background at Stapleford). They have a couple of hangers full of stuff. Stock is not always prepped and I see their cars go through classic car auctions fairly regularly too. They had a yellow 550 Barchetta for ages - Japanese car with zero history, so do seem to take a punt at unusual fare.

[Zanderman]

MDL111 said:

Don't think it is going to cost more than a new Panamera Turbo or similar car over say 3-4 years - so don't see how it is financial suicide relatively speaking. At some point prices might even flatten - so over say 10 years and another 100k miles it might not even cost that much per year - certainly a whole lot less than the first 30k miles cost

I guess what I was getting at (and my numbers are completely hypothetical!) was that say I buy a car at £160k and that is a somewhat inflated price, let’s say I keep the car for 2 years and if they settled down to a more 'correct' price of say £130K in the mean time I would also have to deal with the depreciation on top of that and could end up with a car that was worth £100k in 2 year's time. A £60K loss plus what I have paid in the 2 years ont the finance and running costs might be a little too much to swallow.

[TP321]

Zanderman said:

I guess what I was getting at (and my numbers are completely hypothetical!) was that say I buy a car at £160k and that is a somewhat inflated price, let’s say I keep the car for 2 years and if they settled down to a more 'correct' price of say £130K in the mean time I would also have to deal with the depreciation on top of that and could end up with a car that was worth £100k in 2 year's time. A £60K loss plus what I have paid in the 2 years ont the finance and running costs might be a little too much to swallow.

You have to be really careful with this because it doesn't seem that there are many buyers for these 5-6 year old FFs. It would be interesting to know what the trade is paying for this 2011 car - my guess is that it wont be more than £110k. Factor in also the fact that people just dont buy privately anymore (without warranty and finance) and you could be facing a highly illiquid asset that carries on depreciating.

[MDL111]

Zanderman said:

MDL111 said:

Don't think it is going to cost more than a new Panamera Turbo or similar car over say 3-4 years - so don't see how it is financial suicide relatively speaking. At some point prices might even flatten - so over say 10 years and another 100k miles it might not even cost that much per year - certainly a whole lot less than the first 30k miles cost

I guess what I was getting at (and my numbers are completely hypothetical!) was that say I buy a car at £160k and that is a somewhat inflated price, let’s say I keep the car for 2 years and if they settled down to a more 'correct' price of say £130K in the mean time I would also have to deal with the depreciation on top of that and could end up with a car that was worth £100k in 2 year's time. A £60K loss plus what I have paid in the 2 years ont the finance and running costs might be a little too much to swallow.

I think you have to take into account that the market for 4-seater Ferraris is - as best as I can tell - very illiquid due to the fact that (usually) people will not look at one of these as (a) a weekend car or (b) their first Ferrari. It would not surprise me if your numbers were correct in 2 years - as in, to sell you have to price it at 100k.

My point was, that if you buy a Panamera Turbo or equivalent car, you will lose the same amount of money but driving a Ferrari FF 12-cylinder instead of a relatively common Porsche with a Turbo engine. Both cars cost a lot of money to own.

I bought mine expecting that if I have to sell it within say 5 years, the numbers will not look pretty. (somebody rear ended the car at parking speeds, so now it probably truly is unsellable btw going by the fits Ferrari buyers on here have as soon as anything relating to an accident is mentioned - a low probability event that would really hurt your resale)

I think if you want a Ferrari and limit your downside in terms of financial risk, a 2-seater (probably 8-cyliner) is a better option

[MDL111]

TP321 said:

Zanderman said:

I guess what I was getting at (and my numbers are completely hypothetical!) was that say I buy a car at £160k and that is a somewhat inflated price, let’s say I keep the car for 2 years and if they settled down to a more 'correct' price of say £130K in the mean time I would also have to deal with the depreciation on top of that and could end up with a car that was worth £100k in 2 year's time. A £60K loss plus what I have paid in the 2 years ont the finance and running costs might be a little too much to swallow.

You have to be really careful with this because it doesn't seem that there are many buyers for these 5-6 year old FFs. It would be interesting to know what the trade is paying for this 2011 car - my guess is that it wont be more than £110k. Factor in also the fact that people just dont buy privately anymore (without warranty and finance) and you could be facing a highly illiquid asset that carries on depreciating.

this - I don't think you can sell these cars privately (at least not in a base case scenario), so always take a good spread into account and a long time to sell as I think it will be SOR, not a straight up purchase

[456mgt]

It's a sad state of affairs when I'm surprised there are no trolls on a thread.. In any event this is good advice:

MDL111 said:

I think you have to take into account that the market for 4-seater Ferraris is - as best as I can tell - very illiquid due to the fact that (usually) people will not look at one of these as (a) a weekend car or (b) their first Ferrari. It would not surprise me if your numbers were correct in 2 years - as in, to sell you have to price it at 100k.

My point was, that if you buy a Panamera Turbo or equivalent car, you will lose the same amount of money but driving a Ferrari FF 12-cylinder instead of a relatively common Porsche with a Turbo engine. Both cars cost a lot of money to own.

I bought mine expecting that if I have to sell it within say 5 years, the numbers will not look pretty. (somebody rear ended the car at parking speeds, so now it probably truly is unsellable btw going by the fits Ferrari buyers on here have as soon as anything relating to an accident is mentioned - a low probability event that would really hurt your resale)

I think if you want a Ferrari and limit your downside in terms of financial risk, a 2-seater (probably 8-cylinder) is a better option

Four seats in a Ferrari is pretty toxic, as it is in any car with sporting pretensions. I don't understand it myself, it's a wonderful thing to be able to include your family/friends. But you're in a rarified atmosphere with few buyers, made worse by polarising views on the looks. You have to assume you're going to lose your shirt on it; selling on without a massive depreciation hit is a recent phenomenon and I've only once made the mistake of totting up how much I've rinsed on cars over the years. Don't assume V8s are exempt, it's just that there are more buyers for this category.

[Zanderman]

I hear what your saying but I dont fit into many 2 seater supercars. I have a strange proportioned body and my head ends up squished against the roof in all lambos, 2 seater Ferrari's etc. McLaren is not too bad but to be honest I want something I can use every day if I want that is also exciting. The FF fits the bill perfectly but I am really starting to be put off by most of the comments. I am under no illusion that owning a car of this nature is going to be expensive (I can afford it and am prepared for that) but there has to be limits and the FF just seems off the charts.

Looks like I may have to start looking back at the Bentley V8S, just doesn't feel anywhere near as special..................

MDL111 said:

I think you have to take into account that the market for 4-seater Ferraris is - as best as I can tell - very illiquid due to the fact that (usually) people will not look at one of these as (a) a weekend car or (b) their first Ferrari. It would not surprise me if your numbers were correct in 2 years - as in, to sell you have to price it at 100k.

My point was, that if you buy a Panamera Turbo or equivalent car, you will lose the same amount of money but driving a Ferrari FF 12-cylinder instead of a relatively common Porsche with a Turbo engine. Both cars cost a lot of money to own.

I bought mine expecting that if I have to sell it within say 5 years, the numbers will not look pretty. (somebody rear ended the car at parking speeds, so now it probably truly is unsellable btw going by the fits Ferrari buyers on here have as soon as anything relating to an accident is mentioned - a low probability event that would really hurt your resale)

I think if you want a Ferrari and limit your downside in terms of financial risk, a 2-seater (probably 8-cyliner) is a better option

[WDISMYL]

I think the danger of any internet community on any subject is that it becomes an echo chamber and assumes that it is the market. People's views here are a subset of the market. They aren't gospel. And they can be quite polarising - you have the section that are convinced that their car is the next classic and will never go down in value, and then the total opposite who think everything is going to crash!

I don't think you can go wrong with any of these cars if you assume a 10-15% depreciation each year and that you will face a 15% bid/offer spread if you need to sell quickly. If you can stomach those numbers at any given price point without it ruining the ownership experience then pull the trigger.

[stain]

I'm also interested in one of these but am wary about the effect on values when early cars come off the 7/4 service and warranty package. I've already seen one car in the workshop with the engine removed due to gearbox failure. Luckily for the owner it was under warranty but what if.....???

[Active75]

Hi OP,

You may be in a good negotiating position with this car.

Ask the dealer, if they own it or is it SOR, also if they would underwrite the car on a buyback basis, or improve the warranty offer.

Should help you with a final decision.

(The new Panamera Estate/wagon could be a good option for you and your family.)

[seawise]

I wouldn't be entirely put off by what you read on PH, especially when it comes to justifying the financial element of buying a Ferrari FF. However i went through a similar exercise myself, slightly over 12 months ago, initially looking at 2012/13 built FF's circa £150k, then deciding i wanted the panoramic roof option (2014 built cars onwards) and after visiting my local Ferrari agent came to the conclusion that whatever car i decided upon, it had to be from within the official franchise, which on a car such as this gives you both peace of mind and also the full Ferrari ownership package (by that i mean a huge amount of hospitality, post purchase contact, etc). In the end i bought a 2016 car from Maranello in Egham. Personally i would not wish to stray outside the official Ferrari network, and the cars that don't sell for ages are those that are outside of said network, because clearly the small band of interested parties feel the same way. They are truly wonderful cars, so if you can justify the cost i very much doubt you'll regret it. Once you have crossed over to Ferrari, cars from the likes of Porsche, Bentley, etc, just don't compare. At the end of the day, they aren't for the financially faint of heart, but you get what you pay for !

[456mgt]

Active75 said:

(The new Panamera Estate/wagon could be a good option for you and your family.)

This is what I've gone for actually, the plan being to have it replace the RS6 for daily duties. I'm under no illusions that I'll get hosed though.

[MDL111]

WDISMYL said:

I think the danger of any internet community on any subject is that it becomes an echo chamber and assumes that it is the market. People's views here are a subset of the market. They aren't gospel. And they can be quite polarising - you have the section that are convinced that their car is the next classic and will never go down in value, and then the total opposite who think everything is going to crash!

I don't think you can go wrong with any of these cars if you assume a 10-15% depreciation each year and that you will face a 15% bid/offer spread if you need to sell quickly. If you can stomach those numbers at any given price point without it ruining the ownership experience then pull the trigger.

Generally I fully agree with you (seems to be a pistonheads malaise), but I'd say the people on this thread giving advice are mostly owners as opposed to people who wishfully suggest values are going to fall.