355 price correction

355 price correction

Author
Discussion

NSC79

Original Poster:

102 posts

57 months

Saturday 2nd December 2017
quotequote all
Hi all

I’ve been watching these for about 12 months (for 20 years on a more casual basis!) and noted a bit of downward pricing pressure. Whilst there’s obviously a correction going on, what are your thoughts on where they are going in the next few years? Clearly in the long term, it’s going up, but I can see these are still coming down at the moment...

Last week I spoke with one main dealer who has had an F1 manual (with all the trimmings) on autotrader for “360 days”, and there’s a lot (3 this week) on this website that have recently dropped by 5-10k.

Best

dang2407

496 posts

88 months

Saturday 2nd December 2017
quotequote all
"F1 manual (with all the trimmings) "

What a turkey ;-)


sparta6

3,287 posts

80 months

Saturday 2nd December 2017
quotequote all
Thread title should be "price fluctuation" wink

Probably a good time to make a move as they will certainly pick back up again.


MDL111

6,370 posts

157 months

Saturday 2nd December 2017
quotequote all
Well, they are not exactly rare and rather expensive to maintain properly - so might well be coming back down (a little) again, pre-cheap money they started at c 30k. Lovely cars though, but maybe not the most financial sound purchase at current pricing.

sparta6

3,287 posts

80 months

Saturday 2nd December 2017
quotequote all
MDL111 said:
Well, they are not exactly rare and rather expensive to maintain properly - so might well be coming back down (a little) again, pre-cheap money they started at c 30k. Lovely cars though, but maybe not the most financial sound purchase at current pricing.
c30k was post Bank collapse biggrin

Rarity: I rarely see an F355 within M25. Plenty of 458 onwards though...

MDL111

6,370 posts

157 months

Saturday 2nd December 2017
quotequote all
sparta6 said:
MDL111 said:
Well, they are not exactly rare and rather expensive to maintain properly - so might well be coming back down (a little) again, pre-cheap money they started at c 30k. Lovely cars though, but maybe not the most financial sound purchase at current pricing.
c30k was post Bank collapse biggrin

Rarity: I rarely see an F355 within M25. Plenty of 458 onwards though...
You don't see them on the road anymore, because people are waiting for the appreciation instead of driving them smile
Fair - I bought mine in I think 2008 or 2009 and sold in 2010 or 2011 - bought for 33k and sold for 27k c 20k miles later. Best car I ever owned imo, but not cheap to run

NSC79

Original Poster:

102 posts

57 months

Saturday 2nd December 2017
quotequote all
Yes, admittedly I prefer fluctuation. I’m guessing they’re not going down (anywhere near) to the post crash silly levels, but I’ve got a feeling they have a bit to go...

Obviously I’ll now miss the boat! I did jump in on a 32k mile GTS 6 week’s ago (manual), but the PPI by Shiltech showed up a ridiculous number of issues. I’ve decided to take my time and watch the market moving forward... It’s not my favourite, but 430s for the same money are tempting!

Best

Best

Durzel

11,346 posts

148 months

Saturday 2nd December 2017
quotequote all
They're arguably the most classic but still practical to drive Ferrari. They're well past the point that their value has any relation to their age or mileage. I can't see their prices really going anywhere significantly, as they are a very aspirational model. Imo of course.

MitchT

14,489 posts

189 months

Saturday 2nd December 2017
quotequote all
I've been watching everything from 308s to 360s and they're all softening a little. An F1 355 will be worth less than a true manual anyway as the F1 was widely considered a bit naff on the 355.

HardtopManual

1,921 posts

146 months

Saturday 2nd December 2017
quotequote all
I keep an eye on 355 values and agree that they do seem to have drifted down recently. Who can tell if it's just the usual winter lull, a bit of froth being blown off, or the start of a long-term trend? What is certain is that the cars that sit around for ages tend to be F1 cars. Most listings on Autotrader seem to appear in the search results as manuals, but on closer inspection have the F1 box. An interesting definition of manual gearbox by many dealers in order to get eyeballs on their ads.

If you plan to keep it for a while and want to scratch an itch, the current pricing wouldn't put me off. I can't think of many rivals around the £80k mark, which is what seems to be the going rate for a good RHD manual car in a nice colour. IMHO at £30k from 2008 to 2012ish they were an absolute steal and those prices won't be seen again. It's crazy to think that I paid the same for a 355 as the original owner of our daily Golf diesel paid for a dull estate car.

4rephill

4,942 posts

158 months

Sunday 3rd December 2017
quotequote all
MitchT said:
I've been watching everything from 308s to 360s and they're all softening a little. An F1 355 will be worth less than a true manual anyway as the F1 was widely considered a bit naff on the 355.
I think it's a bit unfair to say the 355's F1 gearbox is widely considered to be "a bit naff" - Some people think they're great, others don't like them.

Some of the issues that affect the F1 gearbox are:

1) It was pretty much the original, first generation "semi-automatic" gearbox, operating on a single clutch, and the technology was pretty basic. This resulted in very aggressive gear change, with the clutch pretty much being "banged" in and out, race car style.

When driving flat out, this wasn't too much of a problem, but when driving the car slowly in towns and cities, it made the car feel quite "clunky".

Owners found they could improve the feel of the gear changes a little bit by having a slight lift of the throttle during gear changes, but for many owners/prospective owners, they simply didn't like it.

(To be fair, all of the various generations of single clutch semi-automatic gearboxes, from all of the manufacturers, have suffered a similar issue with their gear changes to one degree or another. Later systems improved things by quite a margin, but it wasn't truly sorted until the dual-clutch systems arrived on the scene. And now, it looks as though the DCT systems are about to be killed off by the incredible ZF 8 speed auto box and its descendants! )

2) Because it's old school technology, a lot of prospective 355 owners are put off by possible reliability issues, and the lack of spare parts, especially on the control side of the system.

With the traditional three pedal, manual gearbox, there is less to go wrong (quite important on an older Ferrari where parts are becoming harder and harder to source!), and the parts that can go wrong are all mechanical parts that are far easier to reproduce if need be, than the electrical/electronic parts required for the F1 gearbox.

3) A lot of 355 (and 360/430) owners/prospective simply prefer the classic Ferrari open gate, three pedal, manual gearbox, because for them, that is a big part of what owning a classic Ferrari is all about - Mastering the gearbox in order to achieve the perfect gear change, mastering the art of heel 'n' toeing, and hearing the old-school "clack-clack" as the gear lever moves through the metal open gate.

As I have already posted, I think it's a bit unfair to say the 355's F1 gearbox is widely considered to be "a bit naff", but it would be fair to say that for many, the F1 gearbox is, (and this sounds like a bit of a paradox here!), a bit too modern, and at the same time, a bit too primitive for them!


Bo_apex

1,732 posts

198 months

Sunday 3rd December 2017
quotequote all
HardtopManual said:
It's crazy to think that I paid the same for a 355 as the original owner of our daily Golf diesel paid for a dull estate car.
^^this^^

they won't be going anywhere near new Golf prices again biggrin

FezSpider

841 posts

212 months

Sunday 3rd December 2017
quotequote all
4rephill said:
I think it's a bit unfair to say the 355's F1 gearbox is widely considered to be "a bit naff" - Some people think they're great, others don't like them.

Some of the issues that affect the F1 gearbox are:

1) It was pretty much the original, first generation "semi-automatic" gearbox, operating on a single clutch, and the technology was pretty basic. This resulted in very aggressive gear change, with the clutch pretty much being "banged" in and out, race car style.

When driving flat out, this wasn't too much of a problem, but when driving the car slowly in towns and cities, it made the car feel quite "clunky".

Owners found they could improve the feel of the gear changes a little bit by having a slight lift of the throttle during gear changes, but for many owners/prospective owners, they simply didn't like it.

(To be fair, all of the various generations of single clutch semi-automatic gearboxes, from all of the manufacturers, have suffered a similar issue with their gear changes to one degree or another. Later systems improved things by quite a margin, but it wasn't truly sorted until the dual-clutch systems arrived on the scene. And now, it looks as though the DCT systems are about to be killed off by the incredible ZF 8 speed auto box and its descendants! )

2) Because it's old school technology, a lot of prospective 355 owners are put off by possible reliability issues, and the lack of spare parts, especially on the control side of the system.

With the traditional three pedal, manual gearbox, there is less to go wrong (quite important on an older Ferrari where parts are becoming harder and harder to source!), and the parts that can go wrong are all mechanical parts that are far easier to reproduce if need be, than the electrical/electronic parts required for the F1 gearbox.

3) A lot of 355 (and 360/430) owners/prospective simply prefer the classic Ferrari open gate, three pedal, manual gearbox, because for them, that is a big part of what owning a classic Ferrari is all about - Mastering the gearbox in order to achieve the perfect gear change, mastering the art of heel 'n' toeing, and hearing the old-school "clack-clack" as the gear lever moves through the metal open gate.

As I have already posted, I think it's a bit unfair to say the 355's F1 gearbox is widely considered to be "a bit naff", but it would be fair to say that for many, the F1 gearbox is, (and this sounds like a bit of a paradox here!), a bit too modern, and at the same time, a bit too primitive for them!
I like this smile

andy355

1,337 posts

218 months

Sunday 3rd December 2017
quotequote all
Definitely you had to drive the 355 f1 a bit like you would a manual box. It didn't like traffic and would change down to 1st mid corner when going slowly which could be surprising. Quite good fun to try to get right tho. The actuator part was poor and expensive if I recall

MitchT

14,489 posts

189 months

Sunday 3rd December 2017
quotequote all
Yes, "a bit naff" is probably a rather loose term and probably a tad unfair. 4rephill nails it properly.

F355GTS

3,692 posts

235 months

Monday 4th December 2017
quotequote all
4rephill said:
MitchT said:
I've been watching everything from 308s to 360s and they're all softening a little. An F1 355 will be worth less than a true manual anyway as the F1 was widely considered a bit naff on the 355.
I think it's a bit unfair to say the 355's F1 gearbox is widely considered to be "a bit naff" - Some people think they're great, others don't like them.

Some of the issues that affect the F1 gearbox are:

1) It was pretty much the original, first generation "semi-automatic" gearbox, operating on a single clutch, and the technology was pretty basic. This resulted in very aggressive gear change, with the clutch pretty much being "banged" in and out, race car style.

When driving flat out, this wasn't too much of a problem, but when driving the car slowly in towns and cities, it made the car feel quite "clunky".

Owners found they could improve the feel of the gear changes a little bit by having a slight lift of the throttle during gear changes, but for many owners/prospective owners, they simply didn't like it.

(To be fair, all of the various generations of single clutch semi-automatic gearboxes, from all of the manufacturers, have suffered a similar issue with their gear changes to one degree or another. Later systems improved things by quite a margin, but it wasn't truly sorted until the dual-clutch systems arrived on the scene. And now, it looks as though the DCT systems are about to be killed off by the incredible ZF 8 speed auto box and its descendants! )

2) Because it's old school technology, a lot of prospective 355 owners are put off by possible reliability issues, and the lack of spare parts, especially on the control side of the system.

With the traditional three pedal, manual gearbox, there is less to go wrong (quite important on an older Ferrari where parts are becoming harder and harder to source!), and the parts that can go wrong are all mechanical parts that are far easier to reproduce if need be, than the electrical/electronic parts required for the F1 gearbox.

3) A lot of 355 (and 360/430) owners/prospective simply prefer the classic Ferrari open gate, three pedal, manual gearbox, because for them, that is a big part of what owning a classic Ferrari is all about - Mastering the gearbox in order to achieve the perfect gear change, mastering the art of heel 'n' toeing, and hearing the old-school "clack-clack" as the gear lever moves through the metal open gate.

As I have already posted, I think it's a bit unfair to say the 355's F1 gearbox is widely considered to be "a bit naff", but it would be fair to say that for many, the F1 gearbox is, (and this sounds like a bit of a paradox here!), a bit too modern, and at the same time, a bit too primitive for them!
I always loved my 355 F1 Spider, the change other than at crawling speeds was as smooth as silk, I think setup well and they superb. I had a manual GTS for 3+ Years and never really bonded with that car although to be fair I don't think it was the gearbox. I've kept in touch with the guy who bought my Spider and would buy it back in an instant, indeed I'm keeping an eye on the market for a good car.

Prices do seem all over the place with significant differences even where mileage is similar, perhaps it's condition but I doubt it. Having said that these cars were relatively cheap a few years ago and fell into the hands of some who could afford to buy/ drive but not 'keep', I suspect those cars are still out there but just polished up to look good a bit like the GTS the earlier poster mentioned.

z4RRSchris

10,107 posts

159 months

Monday 4th December 2017
quotequote all
they will correct, along with every other tax free asset class.

smart money is moving out.

sparta6

3,287 posts

80 months

Monday 4th December 2017
quotequote all
z4RRSchris said:
they will correct, along with every other tax free asset class.

smart money is moving out.
many people buy a Ferrari just for fun wink

cheaper than a big night out at L'Opera

Nano2nd

3,401 posts

236 months

Monday 4th December 2017
quotequote all
z4RRSchris said:
they will correct, along with every other tax free asset class.

smart money is moving out.
and you know that how exactly?

MDL111

6,370 posts

157 months

Monday 4th December 2017
quotequote all
Nano2nd said:
z4RRSchris said:
they will correct, along with every other tax free asset class.

smart money is moving out.
and you know that how exactly?
I think he has a point, watching car prices in Germany - there seem to be a lot of reductions in asking price and cars are sticking. It certainly seems like there are fewer buyers around than say 12-18 months ago.

It also feels like (this is not in any way to be construed as a fact ...) there are fewer threads on Pistonheads asking about which car is a "good investment" or threads in a similar vein