612 - Which year to buy?

612 - Which year to buy?

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Discussion

Mulsanne-Speed

Original Poster:

564 posts

146 months

Wednesday 19th December 2018
quotequote all
I wonder if anyone can help - I'm currently looking to buy a 612 Scaglietti but not sure how important it is to buy a later model year.

I've read that a faster changing F1 box was added around 2007 / 2008 - Is it really that much better, and more importantly, is it much smoother?

Also, I think I read somewhere that some early cars had been recalled, is this a significant issue?

Most importantly, is for example a 2008 car a much better car than a 2005?

Any advice and guidance would be greatly appreciated

Many thanks

Ian Roberts 86

53 posts

194 months

Thursday 20th December 2018
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I have a 2004 612, actually its featured in this months Modern Classics mag. I'm sure the later cars must be better just because of the natural engineered updates during the cars lifespan. Its an absolutely epic car to drive with the sound of the V12 (I have a sports exhaust). I would just say buy the best you can afford from a reputable dealer. I got mine from The Ferrari Center in Kent, great place to buy from.
Cheers Ian

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 20th December 2018
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I have a late 2008 612 OTO. I have never driven an earlier car so can't say how much better the car is but yes, things like the panoramic roof, the improved Bose stereo and navigation, the CCBs and the sports exhaust are definitely a step forward from the earlier cars and prices will reflect that. That said, they are all Ferrari V12s so what's not like. Being a usable four seater Ferrari also makes it special in that it enables you to take your partner plus two out and about - or far more practical for a European tour when you can lob stuff into the back while that glorious engine hauls you over mountains with the force of gravity. They are definitely a gentleman Ferrari though, the last of the breed I would say. Cars that don't shout their entrance but certainly tilt the room towards them.

The redesigned Superfast F1 and double plate clutch is faster then the earlier versions but it's only when you are pedal to the metal that you would ever notice this. The F1 is a hugely misunderstood system, I think largely due to the Playstation generation that is now reviewing these cars on YouTube (apologies - massive generalisation, there are some great car YouTubers out there too - Harry, Tim, Chris, Henry, Matt, etc). The current emphasis seems to be on the speed of the shift, as opposed to the feel. A quick change is perfect for track work and technical sections be they road or track, but to me (and yes my opinion only) the millisecond gearshifts rob you of a large chunk of the connection to the car, that bit where you feather just a touch while the cogs swap and then floor it once your new friend is fully engaged. That joyful satisfaction that a manual driven hard provides.

Now absolutely, the purest form of that is of course a well set up manual gearbox, but the F1 was designed not to make gear changes faster (although this was a natural by product of the engineering), but to allow the driver to keep his/her hands on the wheel whilst making the change, and to make the perfect change every time. If you want it smooth you still need to drive it as you would a manual, lifting the throttle ever so slightly as you pull that right hand paddle towards you and getting back on it just a fraction of a second later. Get it right and it's as good as shifting a manual, with almost as much satisfaction, get it wrong and... well it's as bad as a poor shift in a manual.

Make no mistake, the DCT is an amazing piece of technology, but the current race to make each gear change faster ultimately ends with a seamless shift - and where's the joy in that? I think, at least for enthusiast road cars, it's a misguided effort and that in these last golden years of brutal ICE engines, we are smoothing over too many of the cracks in what is at heart a noisy, oily, smokey technology. Like photoshopped magazine covers we risk losing touch with what makes these cars great, and hastening our headlong rush into an age of gearbox-less motoring.

Apologies for the essay but I feel strongly about this :-) In short - don't worry about fast or slower F1 boxes, drive it correctly and they are all great!

MDL111

6,895 posts

176 months

Thursday 20th December 2018
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Fully agree - prefer F1 to DCT boxes. It is exactly the interaction, having to think about it a little etc, that makes it more satisfying to drive (would still prefer a manual, but alas that is not available on most more modern cars, esp Ferraris)

037

1,315 posts

146 months

Friday 21st December 2018
quotequote all
thecook101 said:
I have a late 2008 612 OTO. I have never driven an earlier car so can't say how much better the car is but yes, things like the panoramic roof, the improved Bose stereo and navigation, the CCBs and the sports exhaust are definitely a step forward from the earlier cars and prices will reflect that. That said, they are all Ferrari V12s so what's not like. Being a usable four seater Ferrari also makes it special in that it enables you to take your partner plus two out and about - or far more practical for a European tour when you can lob stuff into the back while that glorious engine hauls you over mountains with the force of gravity. They are definitely a gentleman Ferrari though, the last of the breed I would say. Cars that don't shout their entrance but certainly tilt the room towards them.

The redesigned Superfast F1 and double plate clutch is faster then the earlier versions but it's only when you are pedal to the metal that you would ever notice this. The F1 is a hugely misunderstood system, I think largely due to the Playstation generation that is now reviewing these cars on YouTube (apologies - massive generalisation, there are some great car YouTubers out there too - Harry, Tim, Chris, Henry, Matt, etc). The current emphasis seems to be on the speed of the shift, as opposed to the feel. A quick change is perfect for track work and technical sections be they road or track, but to me (and yes my opinion only) the millisecond gearshifts rob you of a large chunk of the connection to the car, that bit where you feather just a touch while the cogs swap and then floor it once your new friend is fully engaged. That joyful satisfaction that a manual driven hard provides.

Now absolutely, the purest form of that is of course a well set up manual gearbox, but the F1 was designed not to make gear changes faster (although this was a natural by product of the engineering), but to allow the driver to keep his/her hands on the wheel whilst making the change, and to make the perfect change every time. If you want it smooth you still need to drive it as you would a manual, lifting the throttle ever so slightly as you pull that right hand paddle towards you and getting back on it just a fraction of a second later. Get it right and it's as good as shifting a manual, with almost as much satisfaction, get it wrong and... well it's as bad as a poor shift in a manual.

Make no mistake, the DCT is an amazing piece of technology, but the current race to make each gear change faster ultimately ends with a seamless shift - and where's the joy in that? I think, at least for enthusiast road cars, it's a misguided effort and that in these last golden years of brutal ICE engines, we are smoothing over too many of the cracks in what is at heart a noisy, oily, smokey technology. Like photoshopped magazine covers we risk losing touch with what makes these cars great, and hastening our headlong rush into an age of gearbox-less motoring.

Apologies for the essay but I feel strongly about this :-) In short - don't worry about fast or slower F1 boxes, drive it correctly and they are all great!
This is why I read Pistonheads;)

Mulsanne-Speed

Original Poster:

564 posts

146 months

Friday 21st December 2018
quotequote all
Thank you all for your comments, also to thecook101 for the essay as he call's it - Please don't apologise, your time and thoughts are all greatly appreciated - The more information I can gather the better.

I completely agree that the 612 looks like a true gentleman's Ferrari and much understated. I'm also attracted by the fact that it appears to be a more comfortable looking Ferrari. Both of these factors are a big deal for me.

I've previously owned an F430 Spider (Manual) in Red, my wife hated it, in fact eventually she wouldn't get in it! Finding that it attracted the wrong kind of attention and the cabin got quite hot on sunny days.

The gearbox in the 612 is probably going to be the deciding factor for me, which is why I ask about the later version...... I know that what I'm about to say may not go down very well with some of the Ferrari purists, but I've always appreciated cars that offer a smooth ride and comfort, having recently owned a Rolls Royce Phantom and a 2016 Bentley Mulsanne, meaning comfort and seamless gear changes are kind of what I'm used to.

My expectations of the 612, rightly or wrongly, is that in Ferrari terms it will be one of the best options for my taste, providing good cabin space, comfortable seats, softer suspension and a great V12 engine.

Now I know that the 612 is not going to deliver this same kind of drive as a Rolls Royce or Bentley and I don't mind compromising that to a point, although I am slightly concerned about the F1 gearboxes, as the only time I've ever operated one was in a friends 2004 Maserati 3200 F1 and I hated it....... I thought I was going to break my neck!

I'm sure there's a skill to operating an F1 box, but I don't want it to be too much effort, or it be so jerky that it's unpleasant - I believe there's an auto feature on the 612, does this make the ride much smoother? - Would be interested to know on both the earlier (2004 onwards) and later (2008 onwards) cars?

Any owners opinions on the topic would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks once again

Allister

jimmyslr

798 posts

272 months

Friday 21st December 2018
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There are manual 612s out there, c20-30 in the U.K. I think, if that’s your thing instead of the F1. They don’t come up often and it took me 6 months to track down mine some 5 or so years ago. I agree with the gentlemanly cruiser description; it’s a grown up car which is both its advantage and disadvantage. Very much a GT car and not a sports car. After a year of ownership I added a Scud to my garage as I missed the sports car element; that’s gone now and replaced by a GT3 which is a bit more below the radar. I kept the 612 for the family friendly and grown up feel however. It is a large car which sometimes limits the day to day usage when you need to park it or navigate smaller roads.

In the spirit of openness mine is for sale currently before anyone checks my profile, cross references the classifieds and talks about me ramping the market for my car!

MDL111

6,895 posts

176 months

Friday 21st December 2018
quotequote all
I haven’t driven a 612, but judging by your post the gearbox in the FF might be more to your taste in terms of seamless shifts/auto mode etc

I also believe from what I read that auto mode is not great for clutch life on the F1 boxes

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 21st December 2018
quotequote all
Auto mode is no smoother and simply acts to surprise you with the timing of every shift - cue nodding dog and poor reviews. Avoid at all costs except perhaps when pootling around town looking for a parking spot and being simultaneously too lazy or distracted to change yourself.

willy wombat

906 posts

147 months

Friday 21st December 2018
quotequote all
But when you’re poodling around you don’t really need to change gear because there’s so much torque in the big V12. However, looking at your previous cars (RR etc) I doubt whether any of that generation of Ferraris is going to give you the smooth ride you’re looking for. As a previous poster said, FF might be a better bet.

MarkM3Evoplus

804 posts

199 months

Friday 21st December 2018
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I own a Mk1 Aston Vanquish, but managed to borrow an early 612 to take my mate to his wedding as he is Italian (albeit I didn't drive it frown).

Must say, in that short journey and left in auto mode, it was really impressive, loads of grunt, nice ride and pretty comfortable for my 5ft 8 frame in the back (the Vanquish rear seats are useless unless your legs are removed!)

I also think they have aged nicely in the looks dept, very elegant.

MDL111

6,895 posts

176 months

Friday 21st December 2018
quotequote all
Looks wise - I also think they have aged really well. Such a good looking side profile and rear end especially, but even got used to the front. Prefer it to the 599 (but still think the 550 is prettier)

hunter 66

3,888 posts

219 months

Friday 21st December 2018
quotequote all
Had one for 4 years , 2005 F1 , gearbox fine especially in sport mode , which is great just care in the wet as wheelsman in even 4 th . I had to replace the suspension bushes ..which was costly so keep an eye on that but I did 14,000 miles on it and loved them all .
Now have a new GT3 RS now , and yes the gearbox is faster but it never was an issue in the 612 , as more relaxed

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 21st December 2018
quotequote all
Ian Roberts 86 said:
I have a 2004 612, actually its featured in this months Modern Classics mag. I'm sure the later cars must be better just because of the natural engineered updates during the cars lifespan. Its an absolutely epic car to drive with the sound of the V12 (I have a sports exhaust). I would just say buy the best you can afford from a reputable dealer. I got mine from The Ferrari Center in Kent, great place to buy from.
Cheers Ian
Just read the article in Modern Classics; great write up and your car looks amazing.

Ian Roberts 86

53 posts

194 months

Saturday 22nd December 2018
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Thanks for the comment on the car. I think the colour combination is perfect for such a grand car. I had a 550 previously and felt that the 4 seats would make it more user friendly and that is really the case. I use it all the time, more than the 550 even for work a few times a month as well.
Above all its the V12 sound................

Mulsanne-Speed

Original Poster:

564 posts

146 months

Sunday 23rd December 2018
quotequote all
Thank you for your comments everybody - I have considered alternatives like the FF but for me, I think the lines and elegance of the 612 is quite unique, I think it's a beautiful car.

I could probably get used to the gearbox in the 612, but will my wife..... She said she'd quite like to drive the next car, I know the California is quite "woman friendly" but I'm not a fan.

Also, if she's a passenger and it's a bit jerky, am I going to have to listen to her complaining! - I don't really drive that quick, so I'm guessing at low speeds, it's probably not that jerky?

I think the only option is to drive one and find out for myself.

Thanks again everyone for sharing your thoughts.

anonymous-user

53 months

Sunday 23rd December 2018
quotequote all
Take one for a drive. There is no jerkiness to the gearbox at all. My earlier post was not intended to imply any faults with the gearbox, just that, as with a manual, there remains some driver involvement in making a completely smooth shift. It’s not at all hard to do and you and your wife will pick it up in no time. Do read the article in the most recent Modern Classics magazine - a good insight into the pedigree of the car.

Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 24th December 09:03

Mulsanne-Speed

Original Poster:

564 posts

146 months

Sunday 23rd December 2018
quotequote all
Thank you thecook101, that's really good to know...... I did try and find a copy of Modern Classics yesterday in my local Sainsbury's, they tend to have quite a good selection of magazines, but it wasn't there - Will try a specialist magazine shop tomorrow to give me some Boxing Day reading.

Thanks again

Allister

MaserGT

9 posts

186 months

Monday 24th December 2018
quotequote all
Hi Mulsanne-Speed, great question and I think a relatively simple answer. I have owned a 2008 612 HGTS pack for seven years and the reason I had to buy it in the first place was the sound of the factory sports exhaust that comes with the HGTS and HGTC packs (the latter has carbon ceramic breaks and is much rarer). For what is the most elegant and feminine looking Ferrari for decades it may come as a surprise to know that it’s exhaust note is (in my opinion) the best sounding Ferrari V12 ever made. Bizarrely far more visceral than the sportier 550s and 599s that overlapped it. And in a different league to the non-HGTS cars which sound relatively mooted (although I haven’t heard after-market systems on these like the fine poster above). So for me the decision would be easy - try both but be prepared to buy the HGTS outright on start-up! And as for the popping and crackling through the gears........The HGtS pack I think came out at the very end of 2006 but you’ll see most on 2007 cars onwards. I think the Bose upgrade and other items like gearbox were mostly from 2008 but I could give or take these - it’s the factory exhaust that’s the game changer.

In terms of usage, I have driven mine all over Europe with the kids in the back and the factory fitted luggage, like these were meant to be used - a true Grand Tourer. We even used to take it skiing. The silky power and torque of the engine, combined with that amazing sound, was just phenomenal across the Alps and through the mountains. It feels effortlessly superior on the open road.

Downsides? Don’t worry about the box, it’s fine, although my wife has never relished driving it, she prefers traditional manual or auto. Comfort? As a modern RR and Bentley man you recognise that top end Ferrari leather is now probably the best in the world - I think they were the last to stop using Connolly and certainly their leather still feels less German than the German-era brits. The Daytona seats and quilted roof etc are just magical. BUT we are both finding the front seats are giving us pain in the lower back after long drives (middle age!!!), I’m not sure why this is. And the car does feel “tinny” after driving a RR or Mulsanne (I am a massive fan of both!).

In conclusion - I think it’s one of the most beautiful and understated modern Ferrari’s, THE best sounding ever made and has one of the great interiors. As a weekend car it would be sublime. But if i had to cross Europe tomorrow - I would definitely reach for RR phantom coupe, dawn, ghost or Bentley Mulsanne - grass is always greener 😀

Ps I echo the comments on the FF - far more refined although doesn’t have the same theatrical grumbling noise - it’s higher pitched, much smoother to drive, better damped suspension etc

I hope that’s helpful and enjoy the hunting.

Mulsanne-Speed

Original Poster:

564 posts

146 months

Wednesday 26th December 2018
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Hi MaserGT,

Thank you for taking the time to share details of your experiences, it's always good to hear from someone who has firsthand experience of the car in question and other luxury marques.

There's nothing available at the moment that I really want in terms of colour combo, I'm quite set on black paintwork with chocolate brown leather, which I know may take a while to find (if anyone has one for sale, please let me know).

In the meantime, I'll continue to monitor the classifieds

Thanks again MaserGT