612 or Cali?

[vonders]

Looking to get a 612 or Cali v1. I’ve driven a Cali before,
loved it and its dual nature. Felt like both a GT and sports car when pushing. Gearbox, Engine, Handling all excellent. Also liked the cabin.

Tempted by a 612. They are ageing well. Look stealth in black. V12 mystique.

Is the 612 a whole new ball game? Or too old to consider now?
16 year old car vs 10 year old car - quite a jump.

Narrowed down to these two due to budget and need for rear seats. I found the Cali rear seats usable just about for 2+1.

[Mattjevans]

If you liked the Cali, you may find the 612 gearbox a bit, not to beat around the bush, st.

[vonders]

Would the v12 majesty make up for that? Last single clutch auto I used was a 997 tip. It was ok

[BobTurner]

vonders said:

Would the v12 majesty make up for that? Last single clutch auto I used was a 997 tip. It was ok

997 tip had a torque converter, didn't it?

[Mogul]

Early 612 cars used the late-model 575M's F1 transmission and single-plate dry clutch which was already pretty much sorted but later on, the 612 Sessanta and One-To-One (OTO) editions acquired the 599s improved twin-plate dry clutch. You’ll pay more for one of these but hard to argue that’s unreasonable.

Love the idea of smoking around in a late 612 (could just about forgive some of the Fisher-Price TFT screens so long as the upholstery was still in as-new condition. California? Not so much.

[ANOpax]

Price wise, some of the late OTO 612s are close to FF territory which is a whole different (and better) kettle of fish.

[vonders]

Cheers for the heads up on the gearbox nuances. Will have to go test drive one see if I get on with it.

FF super tempting but need a few more years of depreciation

[hunter 66]

Yes gearbox slow , although putting it in sport helped a bit , but that is part of the appeal , it is a GT car for the family and much more aesthetic than the FF ( it has aged well ) . Had one for 4 years now back in a Porsche GT3 RS . and I miss the old Ferrari in a way , it was a gentlemans Ferrari .

[kman]

Saw today that DK have just advertised an OTO 612. Looks stunning! Design wise I find them a bit too big (same as with the FF/812).

[vonders]

Lovely example. After checking their stock I’ve fallen in love with one of their cars - the dark blue 355 gts. Unbelievable

[anonymous-user]

Drive a robotised manual with the same finesse as you would standard manual instead of expecting a synthesised PlayStation experience, and you'll discover that the later F1 gearbox implementations are joy to drive. Subtle feathering on upshift and a dab of throttle on aggressive downshifts and you get much of the the nuance of a manual shift without your hands leaving the wheel - exactly what it was designed to do. In my opinion, those that write it off have not learned, or are too impatient, to use them properly. Certainly don't dismiss the 612 on the basis of it's gearbox, which coupled to a gloriously smooth V12 makes for sublime grand tourer.

[vonders]

Good point. Sounds like the gearbox suits the 612. I think a well driven 2005ish black or TDF is the way to go looking at values. Does the roof have leather lining?

[ANOpax]

vonders said:

Good point. Sounds like the gearbox suits the 612. I think a well driven 2005ish black or TDF is the way to go looking at values. Does the roof have leather lining?

Avoid black unless you want to spend your life cleaning and detailing it.

[vonders]

Anything that gets me out the house is a winner

[Mr Cod]

Anybody know anything about the Cat C one that is currently for sale?

https://www.essexprestigeautos.co.uk/used-ferrari-...

[jtremlett]

Mr Cod said:

Anybody know anything about the Cat C one that is currently for sale?

https://www.essexprestigeautos.co.uk/used-ferrari-...

I don't know anything about the damage. It was Grigio Silverstone originally, so I assume the colour was changed when it was repaired.

Also, it was previously for sale in late 2017 (23k miles, asking £69,990) but no mention of Cat C then although it was already black at that point.

Edited by jtremlett on Thursday 16th January 18:02

[dvb247]

oh know thats really bad news, why did they change the colour? Ive got some of the bills sent over when I enquired, all second hand front end parts from UK and USA, no bill from the workshop!.

[brogenville]

I’m not sure I but the argument. Yes, you do need to learn how to drive an automated manual to get the best from them, but isn’t the point of them that you don’t have to put in so much input? Regardless, I put up with F1 in my 612 for over 2 years before converting it to manual over the winter. I wish I’d done it sooner, as all of a sudden I don’t have to put up with a learner driver in charge of the clutch. It’s not just the interaction, or the fact that it feels like I’m going faster now (even though I’m probably going slower), but simple things like reversing over the lip going into my garage are now just easier and smother. It really is a privilege to control the gears of a big v12 in a completely mechanical way.

thecook101 said:

Drive a robotised manual with the same finesse as you would standard manual instead of expecting a synthesised PlayStation experience, and you'll discover that the later F1 gearbox implementations are joy to drive. Subtle feathering on upshift and a dab of throttle on aggressive downshifts and you get much of the the nuance of a manual shift without your hands leaving the wheel - exactly what it was designed to do. In my opinion, those that write it off have not learned, or are too impatient, to use them properly. Certainly don't dismiss the 612 on the basis of it's gearbox, which coupled to a gloriously smooth V12 makes for sublime grand tourer.

[Superleg48]

thecook101 said:

Drive a robotised manual with the same finesse as you would standard manual instead of expecting a synthesised PlayStation experience, and you'll discover that the later F1 gearbox implementations are joy to drive. Subtle feathering on upshift and a dab of throttle on aggressive downshifts and you get much of the the nuance of a manual shift without your hands leaving the wheel - exactly what it was designed to do. In my opinion, those that write it off have not learned, or are too impatient, to use them properly. Certainly don't dismiss the 612 on the basis of it's gearbox, which coupled to a gloriously smooth V12 makes for sublime grand tourer.

Absolutely top advice. The problem with these single clutch robotised manuals is not the gearbox, but the drivers who simply don’t understand them properly and believe they are autos with flappy paddles and moan that they don’t feel like autos should. This confusion is of course exacerbated by the fact they that all have an auto mode, which you should never actually use to get the best out of the gearbox in the way it was designed to work.

[brogenville]

There is some truth in that. I’m sorry though, they’re just not that good, hence why no major manufactures use them any more. You can drive round them to a certain extent, but you will always have the situation where the throttle pedal is influencing both torque demand and clutch position, which for most keen drivers is ultimately frustrating.