Are 599 gearboxes reliable ?

[idealstandard]

MarkM3Evoplus said:

Are there any software changes made in the conversion to full manual?

The original AM Vanquish has been converted, but you also need to do some software changes to make it work.

Yes, you need a manual 599 map on them or it won't work.

[willy wombat]

599 owners don’t bumble around in “D” if for no other reason than that the car doesn’t have “D”. It’s not an automatic gear box, it’s a robotised manual.

[idealstandard]

willy wombat said:

599 owners don’t bumble around in “D” if for no other reason than that the car doesn’t have “D”. It’s not an automatic gear box, it’s a robotised manual.

Well I am a 599 owner and I did until recently because unless you are in an appropriate situation (ie not in traffic, in town, anywhere that requires constant stopping) the system isn't enjoyable to use, for me anyway. OK it says "Auto" instead of D. Splitting hairs..!

[Pooh]

PAUL500 said:

Its just a manual box with actuator based changes, kits are out there now to turn them into full manual if required.

The box started life in the 612 so that is another place to seek out any earlier problems

It is also in the Maserati GranTurismo, I did 12k miles in two years in mine with no issues of any sort.

[willy wombat]

idealstandard said:

Well I am a 599 owner and I did until recently because unless you are in an appropriate situation (ie not in traffic, in town, anywhere that requires constant stopping) the system isn't enjoyable to use, for me anyway. OK it says "Auto" instead of D. Splitting hairs..!

I’m amazed. I think (as an owner) the 599 box is awful in auto (very jerky - not at all like the later dual clutch boxes in the 458 and California onwards). Also, the 599 has so much torque that, when bumbling around, you hardly need to change gear if you leave it in manual.

[PAUL500]

Dario Franchitti mentioned in a recent interview that the factory manual 599 was not actually that nice to drive, as the flywheel is quite small, so the revs drop off very quickly between changes. I guess this is because it was designed mainly for automated changes.

[PAUL500]

Pooh said:

PAUL500 said:

Its just a manual box with actuator based changes, kits are out there now to turn them into full manual if required.

The box started life in the 612 so that is another place to seek out any earlier problems

It is also in the Maserati GranTurismo, I did 12k miles in two years in mine with no issues of any sort.

Although the actuation system looks similar, I believe they used the older 4200/Quattroporte gearbox rather than the later 612/599 box

[Pooh]

PAUL500 said:

Pooh said:

PAUL500 said:

Its just a manual box with actuator based changes, kits are out there now to turn them into full manual if required.

The box started life in the 612 so that is another place to seek out any earlier problems

It is also in the Maserati GranTurismo, I did 12k miles in two years in mine with no issues of any sort.

Although the actuation system looks similar, I believe they used the older 4200/Quattroporte gearbox rather than the later 612/599 box

Okay that’s interesting, I was under the impression that the rear transaxle was essentially the same but I have obviously been misinformed.

[PAUL500]

I thought that too a while back, but having compared them in more recent times, the cases of the 4200/Quattroporte/Granturisimo box are the same, and quite different from the late 612/599 casing and diff.

I guess people see the similar t bar for reverse and assume the box is the same one as well.

[idealstandard]

willy wombat said:

I’m amazed. I think (as an owner) the 599 box is awful in auto (very jerky - not at all like the later dual clutch boxes in the 458 and California onwards). Also, the 599 has so much torque that, when bumbling around, you hardly need to change gear if you leave it in manual.

Everyone is different. I don't like it very much and miss having a manual V12 Ferrari. I always feel when driving my V12 Vantage that manual shifting is just a huge part of the experience for me - something I miss in the 599 when I drive it, hence why I am having mine converted to Manual.

[idealstandard]

PAUL500 said:

Dario Franchitti mentioned in a recent interview that the factory manual 599 was not actually that nice to drive, as the flywheel is quite small, so the revs drop off very quickly between changes. I guess this is because it was designed mainly for automated changes.

Yeah, I listened to the same podcast. Will play with it if it's a problem. I know someone who has converted a 612 in the same way and they had to do some minor rev map stuff, rather than looking at different flywheels. To be fair, my old 456 was quick to drop its revs, so I may well just be perfectly happy with it.

Edited by idealstandard on Thursday 14th January 19:58

[PAUL500]

I guess we have been chatting to the same 612 owner he does seem very happy with the swap.

Gordon Murray specced a small flywheel for the F1, and no one seems to have an issue with that. Dario probably meant a manual 599 is not an ideal GT car as a result, rather than any issues with performance.

Having watched the latest instalment of the 599 to manual conversion on you tube, it seems being double jointed and as flexible as a gymnast would make life much easier!

[brogenville]

Hi Guys, think I may be the 612 owner you’re both referring to. 😄👋

I could get into the details of a lot of what’s mentions above, but the reference to the rev-dropping that Dario mentioned in a recent CC podcast in interesting. The reason being is that there is a specific calibration function in the Motronic 7 firmware that manages engine speed decay between gear shifts. From a complete reverse engineering of the 599 engine programming (which wasn’t done by me), it was found that Ferrari “broke” this functionality on the 599. As in, they changed the code so that the calibration function wouldn’t execute correctly. It’s pretty clear that Ferrari weren’t interested in making the manual a polished product from an engine calibration perspective, which isn’t surprising really given how few they planned to sell.

Suffice to say that this functionality will be correctly reinstated for Alex’s 599. 😁 It’s already been tested out and found to drive brilliantly. As well as the engine ecu’s getting reflashed, there is some coding in the car that I managed to figure out to allow all the ecu’s to talk to each other happily and without any warning lights appearing. Again, all tested and working now.

On the EAG kits, none (for 599) have been delivered so far, though I’m sure that’s only a matter of time. I recommend anyone considering buying one however does their homework on FerrariChat. A “mixed bag” is probably a fair way to summarise the customer satisfaction.

[PAUL500]

Yes we spoke via PM over on Fchat not that long ago, very interesting regarding the rev drop control on the 599.

Now it has been resolved I imagine Harris and co would love to get your converted cars together for a group test at some point.

With regards our little project, I will be back in touch soon to progress things hopefully.

I recently put a rather interesting guy onto "T" in relation work he requires on his 575 ecu, hopefully they have got chatting. Given this chaps background they should have a lot to talk about.

[idealstandard]

brogenville said:

Hi Guys, think I may be the 612 owner you’re both referring to. ????

Indeed Robin! The first time I think I have met someone in "real life" before an introduction on a Forum!

Alex.

[brogenville]

PAUL500 said:

Yes we spoke via PM over on Fchat not that long ago, very interesting regarding the rev drop control on the 599.

Now it has been resolved I imagine Harris and co would love to get your converted cars together for a group test at some point.

With regards our little project, I will be back in touch soon to progress things hopefully.

I recently put a rather interesting guy onto "T" in relation work he requires on his 575 ecu, hopefully they have got chatting. Given this chaps background they should have a lot to talk about.

Hi Paul,
Yeah, I remember chatting on FChat. Hope you’re well.

That sounds interesting regarding your pal with the 575; T is always up for odd new challenges. If he just sent T a message on FChat though, it may well have gone unnoticed, as the man gets so many unsolicited messages that he’s largely given up trying to respond to them all. If you give me the guy’s user name, then I can flag it up with T next time we’re chatting this week.

[PAUL500]

I will send you a PM over on fchat

[speedbird1000]

Was driving the 599 gto and man does that have an aggressive gearbox ... been thinking there is NO WAY it’s going to last slamming through the gears as it does, but boy is it exciting... as is the v12 induction sound, great opportunity lost by the meatheads at Ferrari to have tried to make the f12 induction sound as good as that 599 gto.... a carbon intake on top of the f12 would nicely finish off that already fantastic engine....

[PAUL500]

Just watched the update vid on the 599 conversion on you tube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxpQLCviJFI&li...

Interesting to see they do the ecu work in house rather than ship it out to a third party.

Even parts for F1 cars were made by men in sheds like that, and as DIYer myself it is good to see it can be done that way, however if I was offering a $30k plus conversion service I don't think I would be putting it out there on the net. For that kind of money many people will want to believe they are getting a premier product, produced in the sort of place Ron Dennis would be proud of.

[idealstandard]

PAUL500 said:

Just watched the update vid on the 599 conversion on you tube.

Just watched this too.

The quality of the parts are atrocious compared to some of the bits Robin helped me source / 3d milled etc. The clutch pedal in particular looks dreadful.

I wouldn't have this on youtube if i was trying to sell the kit for $30k plus. If this is how they do the bits you don't really see, i dread to think what the interior parts look like (centre console, centre tunnel etc)

Alex

Edited by idealstandard on Friday 22 January 15:51