Discussion
Fuoco said:
I just purchased this end of last week couldn't be happier, most of the comments above were accurate, the car is so sublime, then wild and angry at the upper rev ranges but sounds glorious all the way. On the first day though I had to bypass the valves it was just too quiet sounds way better now.
Edited by Fuoco on Tuesday 4th August 11:01
rosino said:
I had a 458 Speciale which i used on track, b-roads, UK and Europe Mountain passes. I found it surprisingly comfortable with the bumpy road button on, I was coming from a GT3 which is much less forgiving.
I hardly did any motorway miles unless strictly necessary so wouldn't know if it would be too loud cruising in Europe at decent speeds for hours on end, but I found it eminently usable with lots go luggage space for 2. The car is epic, absolutely epic. It reads your mind and is so fun and engaging it's hard to describe, I loved everything about it. Everything. And people seemed to love it too in red with the NART stripe. It was gloriously OTT and magnificent.
I have an F12 now in Daytona Black. Much much more elegant, it is more refined for sure. The interior for me is more or less the same, same old tech but I don't mind, I probably prefer it than a million screens like the Roma which for me has no place in a Ferrari. I am quite focused when I drive those cars, it's a special moment and I don't mind having very few distractions.
Chassis-wise of course it's a different beast, you are very aware of that long bonnet but after a while things start to feel more natural, and of course everything is dominated by the engine. Oh my god the engine. It has to be experienced to be believed, and not in England, in Europe, on a good road up a mountain pass, with good visibility, good width and where you can open up a bit without the worry that 2 cars won't fit if somebody is coming the other way like in the UK in most places.
For me the F12 is mostly about the engine, but there's a balance and a friendliness to the chassis once the tyres are warm that is inviting, you can drive it in TC-off in the dry when tyres are up to 50c and not taking too many liberties you can have fun.
The Speciale on the other hand would oversteer the moment you were remotely thinking about it, it would already be sideways. Incredible feeling. And fantastic if you want to be on it.
I love both. I really do. If I had the money I would probably get back into a Speciale though as that is the car that got the most under my skin than any other car I have ever driven. But if you go F12 you won't go wrong, they are incredible value at the moment and that sound is something else, it's like F1 of the good old days out of the factory, and for me the Pininfarina design will remain a classic whilst the 812 is way too fussy and trying too hard.
It's difficult, but the reality is that you would need to spend time in both for more than the 20' test drive on some rubbish roads that the Dealers can offer you (if you can get that...). But whatever you do I beg you to take the car, drive or transport it to Italy and drive it on decent roads surrounded by people giving you the thumbs up and immediately allowing you to overtake and smiling at you. Completely different experience than driving these cars in England I have to say.
Love a post that makes me smile - appreciated. I hardly did any motorway miles unless strictly necessary so wouldn't know if it would be too loud cruising in Europe at decent speeds for hours on end, but I found it eminently usable with lots go luggage space for 2. The car is epic, absolutely epic. It reads your mind and is so fun and engaging it's hard to describe, I loved everything about it. Everything. And people seemed to love it too in red with the NART stripe. It was gloriously OTT and magnificent.
I have an F12 now in Daytona Black. Much much more elegant, it is more refined for sure. The interior for me is more or less the same, same old tech but I don't mind, I probably prefer it than a million screens like the Roma which for me has no place in a Ferrari. I am quite focused when I drive those cars, it's a special moment and I don't mind having very few distractions.
Chassis-wise of course it's a different beast, you are very aware of that long bonnet but after a while things start to feel more natural, and of course everything is dominated by the engine. Oh my god the engine. It has to be experienced to be believed, and not in England, in Europe, on a good road up a mountain pass, with good visibility, good width and where you can open up a bit without the worry that 2 cars won't fit if somebody is coming the other way like in the UK in most places.
For me the F12 is mostly about the engine, but there's a balance and a friendliness to the chassis once the tyres are warm that is inviting, you can drive it in TC-off in the dry when tyres are up to 50c and not taking too many liberties you can have fun.
The Speciale on the other hand would oversteer the moment you were remotely thinking about it, it would already be sideways. Incredible feeling. And fantastic if you want to be on it.
I love both. I really do. If I had the money I would probably get back into a Speciale though as that is the car that got the most under my skin than any other car I have ever driven. But if you go F12 you won't go wrong, they are incredible value at the moment and that sound is something else, it's like F1 of the good old days out of the factory, and for me the Pininfarina design will remain a classic whilst the 812 is way too fussy and trying too hard.
It's difficult, but the reality is that you would need to spend time in both for more than the 20' test drive on some rubbish roads that the Dealers can offer you (if you can get that...). But whatever you do I beg you to take the car, drive or transport it to Italy and drive it on decent roads surrounded by people giving you the thumbs up and immediately allowing you to overtake and smiling at you. Completely different experience than driving these cars in England I have to say.
Edited by rosino on Tuesday 4th August 09:18
I can’t wait for Saturday - should be dry and sunny and deposit is already paid on the car and Finance house are in touch for invoice so dealer knows it’s to seal the deal/sign as opposed to speculative.
We already have a road trip booked in place for exactly this mid September - Puligny-Montrachet first two nights then some fun roads to Annecy for two nights. Then down to Chamonix for five nights so doing up to Swiss Alps, Pass Bourg Saint Maurice (what a road) and round through Albertville and then Evian for a few nights before Reims, tour of some of my favourite Champagne houses and home. Corona allowing of course! 1,750 miles to get to know her properly.
Fuoco said:
I just bought the Fuoco Rosso F12 from JCT Leeds and they delivered in a covered transporter, I noticed their other F12 has just been reserved, assuming that is you is it? Congrats
That is indeed! I had looked at the one you had and was flipping a coin but am actually glad you made the decision for me as the Rosso with Crema was where my heart was. Hope they did you a decent deal and many congrats. Your first Ferrari or old hand?On Valve bypass comment I had looked at that, JCT said they couldn’t/wouldn’t do it. What’s best option (Forza I assume) and anyone advise where to get fitted - couple of hours I guess) in Central London? Makes that much difference on stock pipes but open all the way through rev range?
Edited by RogGT-R on Tuesday 4th August 21:38
RogGT-R said:
That is indeed! I had looked at the one you had and was flipping a coin but am actually glad you made the decision for me as the Rosso with Crema was where my heart was. Hope they did you a decent deal and many congrats. Your first Ferrari or old hand?
On Valve bypass comment I had looked at that, JCT said they couldn’t/wouldn’t do it. What’s best option (Forza I assume) and anyone advise where to get fitted - couple of hours I guess) in Central London? Makes that much difference on stock pipes but open all the way through rev range?
I'm Pleased you're not upset!!On Valve bypass comment I had looked at that, JCT said they couldn’t/wouldn’t do it. What’s best option (Forza I assume) and anyone advise where to get fitted - couple of hours I guess) in Central London? Makes that much difference on stock pipes but open all the way through rev range?
Edited by RogGT-R on Tuesday 4th August 21:38
No its my 3rd Ferrari as I'm Currently on my 3rd Lambo and 3rd Porsche had to balance the books, in fact my second Fuoco Rosso Fezza so it was pre ordained. I was negotiating hard and walked away but my wife commented that I would be a grumpy sod for weeks if I lost it hence I gave them what they asked for so long as they would deliver by last Thursday, I know I paid too much but couldn't be happier.
Valve by pass 20 mins, you're not too far from us in Surrey come over once you collect and we'll do it one Saturday/Sunday morning
Fuoco said:
I'm Pleased you're not upset!!
No its my 3rd Ferrari as I'm Currently on my 3rd Lambo and 3rd Porsche had to balance the books, in fact my second Fuoco Rosso Fezza so it was pre ordained. I was negotiating hard and walked away but my wife commented that I would be a grumpy sod for weeks if I lost it hence I gave them what they asked for so long as they would deliver by last Thursday, I know I paid too much but couldn't be happier.
Valve by pass 20 mins, you're not too far from us in Surrey come over once you collect and we'll do it one Saturday/Sunday morning
Now there’s an offer one can’t refuse, much appreciated. 20 mins? I thought it was bumper off job to fit the Forza unit? For did you just mean lock them open? Either way, you’re on.No its my 3rd Ferrari as I'm Currently on my 3rd Lambo and 3rd Porsche had to balance the books, in fact my second Fuoco Rosso Fezza so it was pre ordained. I was negotiating hard and walked away but my wife commented that I would be a grumpy sod for weeks if I lost it hence I gave them what they asked for so long as they would deliver by last Thursday, I know I paid too much but couldn't be happier.
Valve by pass 20 mins, you're not too far from us in Surrey come over once you collect and we'll do it one Saturday/Sunday morning
I argued hard too and mine been for sale a while longer (I guess the Rosso/Crema isn’t to everyone tastes) and was pre Covid bought in by them so I suspect they did take a kicking on margin. Was reduced on AutoTrader to get rid I guess and they wouldn’t move more than a token, tank of fuel and battery swap but frankly I am more than happy also as life is way too short.
Will keep you posted Saturday and will PM details. Really glad you are keeping your garage balanced though - oddly (I kid you not) my missus also said just do it otherwise I would be grumpy!
Edited by RogGT-R on Wednesday 5th August 00:00
Just to note on the valve controller: Forza is favoured by the US owners as it’s made/supplied there and easy to get hold of. As you’re in the U.K., Capristo is what you want. German made and totally reliable. My official Ferrari dealer fits them and has never had any problems with them. The Forza has slightly more flexibility (it will allow you to set valves closed at all times) but there’s a school of thought which says that this is bad for the engine as it will restrict breathing at higher revs.
Edited to add - don’t forget to upgrade the stock Ferrari branded battery charger to a high capacity CTEK if it hasn’t been upgraded already.
Edited to add - don’t forget to upgrade the stock Ferrari branded battery charger to a high capacity CTEK if it hasn’t been upgraded already.
Edited by ANOpax on Wednesday 5th August 08:58
ANOpax said:
Just to note on the valve controller: Forza is favoured by the US owners as it’s made/supplied there and easy to get hold of. As you’re in the U.K., Capristo is what you want. German made and totally reliable. My official Ferrari dealer fits them and has never had any problems with them. The Forza has slightly more flexibility (it will allow you to set valves closed at all times) but there’s a school of thought which says that this is bad for the engine as it will restrict breathing at higher revs.
Edited to add - don’t forget to upgrade the stock Ferrari branded battery charger to a high capacity CTEK if it hasn’t been upgraded already.
Thanks - am looking at CTEK 25Amp Showroom version!Edited to add - don’t forget to upgrade the stock Ferrari branded battery charger to a high capacity CTEK if it hasn’t been upgraded already.
Edited by ANOpax on Wednesday 5th August 08:58
Fuoco said:
I'm Pleased you're not upset!!
No its my 3rd Ferrari as I'm Currently on my 3rd Lambo and 3rd Porsche had to balance the books, in fact my second Fuoco Rosso Fezza so it was pre ordained. I was negotiating hard and walked away but my wife commented that I would be a grumpy sod for weeks if I lost it hence I gave them what they asked for so long as they would deliver by last Thursday, I know I paid too much but couldn't be happier.
Valve by pass 20 mins, you're not too far from us in Surrey come over once you collect and we'll do it one Saturday/Sunday morning
Congrats, I have a f12 rosso fuoco in hampshire, its great really, and actually looked blood red at dusk the other day... I went the whole mile and got Novitec exhaust Inc sports cats, the engine noise is just bonkers great.... Just don't drive it if the rears are shot, only time when I think it gets unpredicatabky dangerous in my 3 years of riding it.... No its my 3rd Ferrari as I'm Currently on my 3rd Lambo and 3rd Porsche had to balance the books, in fact my second Fuoco Rosso Fezza so it was pre ordained. I was negotiating hard and walked away but my wife commented that I would be a grumpy sod for weeks if I lost it hence I gave them what they asked for so long as they would deliver by last Thursday, I know I paid too much but couldn't be happier.
Valve by pass 20 mins, you're not too far from us in Surrey come over once you collect and we'll do it one Saturday/Sunday morning
RogGT-R said:
20 mins? I thought it was bumper off job to fit the Forza unit?
Lots of these types of jobs take much longer on 'book times' than real life. Friend of a friend did one by popping the gap in the bumper open using a set of carpenters chisels and a heat gun to soften the mounting points to pry open and create a workable gap, then he used double sided tape to hold it all closed again after - you'd honestly never know & saved him a fortunejakesmith said:
Lots of these types of jobs take much longer on 'book times' than real life. Friend of a friend did one by popping the gap in the bumper open using a set of carpenters chisels and a heat gun to soften the mounting points to pry open and create a workable gap, then he used double sided tape to hold it all closed again after - you'd honestly never know & saved him a fortune
Crumbs - it’s probably best I don’t attempt that! Spoken to Fuoco and it’s perm open which sounds like the way forward probably.....Starting to get a bit excited about Saturday.
ANOpax said:
Just to note on the valve controller: Forza is favoured by the US owners as it’s made/supplied there and easy to get hold of. As you’re in the U.K., Capristo is what you want. German made and totally reliable. My official Ferrari dealer fits them and has never had any problems with them. The Forza has slightly more flexibility (it will allow you to set valves closed at all times) but there’s a school of thought which says that this is bad for the engine as it will restrict breathing at higher revs.
Edited to add - don’t forget to upgrade the stock Ferrari branded battery charger to a high capacity CTEK if it hasn’t been upgraded already.
Interesting - JCT confirmed they wouldn’t fit one when I asked?Edited to add - don’t forget to upgrade the stock Ferrari branded battery charger to a high capacity CTEK if it hasn’t been upgraded already.
Edited by ANOpax on Wednesday 5th August 08:58
just unplug the vacuum hoses and have the valves permanently open. I had the forza controller but did this first as fitting the controller was going to be a bit more involved. I never found a scenario where I would want them closed again so kept them permanently open. I heard a friend’s 812 with Novitech exhaust and sports cats recently and that was just next level. Very tempting!
Ray_MV said:
just unplug the vacuum hoses and have the valves permanently open. I had the forza controller but did this first as fitting the controller was going to be a bit more involved. I never found a scenario where I would want them closed again so kept them permanently open. I heard a friend’s 812 with Novitech exhaust and sports cats recently and that was just next level. Very tempting!
I suspect that's what I shall do, thanks!speedbird1000 said:
Congrats, I have a f12 rosso fuoco in hampshire, its great really, and actually looked blood red at dusk the other day... I went the whole mile and got Novitec exhaust Inc sports cats, the engine noise is just bonkers great.... Just don't drive it if the rears are shot, only time when I think it gets unpredicatabky dangerous in my 3 years of riding it....
Thank you thats most kindIts my second Fuoco F Car, they're very interesting at different times of the day and under the Garage lights almost Candy apple red, however I quote the Sales manager of Maranellos Egham when I asked why my Fuoco looked different to one of their stock cars " Damn Italians can never paint two cars the same colour" well I think that adds individuality. Do you have PPF by the way?
RogGT-R said:
Now there’s an offer one can’t refuse, much appreciated. 20 mins? I thought it was bumper off job to fit the Forza unit? For did you just mean lock them open? Either way, you’re on.
I argued hard too and mine been for sale a while longer (I guess the Rosso/Crema isn’t to everyone tastes) and was pre Covid bought in by them so I suspect they did take a kicking on margin. Was reduced on AutoTrader to get rid I guess and they wouldn’t move more than a token, tank of fuel and battery swap but frankly I am more than happy also as life is way too short.
Will keep you posted Saturday and will PM details. Really glad you are keeping your garage balanced though - oddly (I kid you not) my missus also said just do it otherwise I would be grumpy!
Indeed, its valves perm open and you'll never want them shut again except when going to an early car meet on a Sunday morning, but hey ho the neighbours are already pissed anyway!! I argued hard too and mine been for sale a while longer (I guess the Rosso/Crema isn’t to everyone tastes) and was pre Covid bought in by them so I suspect they did take a kicking on margin. Was reduced on AutoTrader to get rid I guess and they wouldn’t move more than a token, tank of fuel and battery swap but frankly I am more than happy also as life is way too short.
Will keep you posted Saturday and will PM details. Really glad you are keeping your garage balanced though - oddly (I kid you not) my missus also said just do it otherwise I would be grumpy!
Edited by RogGT-R on Wednesday 5th August 00:00
Fuoco said:
Indeed, its valves perm open and you'll never want them shut again except when going to an early car meet on a Sunday morning, but hey ho the neighbours are already pissed anyway!!
Having now driven, and bought it, I agree! Trying to persuade dealer to do it pre delivery for next Saturday but they don’t appear to be budging.Head office dictation apparently.
She is amazing - very happy! Wasn’t nearly as fast or twitchy/busy harsh steering as led to believe so that’s positive too. I mean it’s fast but step up from tuned GT-R isn’t huge. Above 100 it really pulls more though to be fair and you can feel the less weight and extra BHP.
Yes full ppf is best if for triple layer red.
Finally dove a 812 SF last week and..
- Steering/handling just a touch better the F12, but I felt the gap is v small.
- Does not feel any faster to my big surprise, but then sports exhaust on F12 so prob 770 hp v 800, so makes sense..
- SF no way as good looking as F12
, sorry but is a big gap.
- Interior of SF just a bit nicer than F12 to be fair.
- coming depreciation on SF v F12, a big turn off, maybe £90k over next 3 years? v like none on F12, am quiet jealous of those who buy f12 now, what a bargain.
- F12 feels a bit overall more raw and madder.
- suspension noticeably bit harder on SF
- stock exhaust on SF misses chance to really show off amazing engine note, just too quiet for £250k when it could sound soooo good.
Finally dove a 812 SF last week and..
- Steering/handling just a touch better the F12, but I felt the gap is v small.
- Does not feel any faster to my big surprise, but then sports exhaust on F12 so prob 770 hp v 800, so makes sense..
- SF no way as good looking as F12
, sorry but is a big gap. - Interior of SF just a bit nicer than F12 to be fair.
- coming depreciation on SF v F12, a big turn off, maybe £90k over next 3 years? v like none on F12, am quiet jealous of those who buy f12 now, what a bargain.
- F12 feels a bit overall more raw and madder.
- suspension noticeably bit harder on SF
- stock exhaust on SF misses chance to really show off amazing engine note, just too quiet for £250k when it could sound soooo good.
speedbird1000 said:
Yes full ppf is best if for triple layer red.
Finally dove a 812 SF last week and..
- Steering/handling just a touch better the F12, but I felt the gap is v small.
- Does not feel any faster to my big surprise, but then sports exhaust on F12 so prob 770 hp v 800, so makes sense..
- SF no way as good looking as F12, sorry but is a big gap.
- Interior of SF just a bit nicer than F12 to be fair.
- coming depreciation on SF v F12, a big turn off, maybe £90k over next 3 years? v like none on F12, am quiet jealous of those who buy f12 now, what a bargain.
- F12 feels a bit overall more raw and madder.
- suspension noticeably bit harder on SF
- stock exhaust on SF misses chance to really show off amazing engine note, just too quiet for £250k when it could sound soooo good.
Really interesting insight. I am sure the 812 is a significantly better car but I saw one next to F12 and I just can’t get the looks. Would I if I was in the market? Not sure. Finally dove a 812 SF last week and..
- Steering/handling just a touch better the F12, but I felt the gap is v small.
- Does not feel any faster to my big surprise, but then sports exhaust on F12 so prob 770 hp v 800, so makes sense..
- SF no way as good looking as F12
, sorry but is a big gap. - Interior of SF just a bit nicer than F12 to be fair.
- coming depreciation on SF v F12, a big turn off, maybe £90k over next 3 years? v like none on F12, am quiet jealous of those who buy f12 now, what a bargain.
- F12 feels a bit overall more raw and madder.
- suspension noticeably bit harder on SF
- stock exhaust on SF misses chance to really show off amazing engine note, just too quiet for £250k when it could sound soooo good.
Anyway - she is all prepped, paid for, MOT, serviced and polished ready for the big day tomorrow. Early train from Kings X and then heading out to Yorkshire dales before run back to London Sunday.
Jolly excited I have to say!!
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