Every day tips for living with a 599
Discussion
Hughesie said:
cake eater said:
What did you have done to remove the carbon build up? And for the injectors?
That's good news its just coked up, had a few nights like that myself 
Its aways worse at the rear of the engine as well if you note.
Pretty sure it was a terraclean jobbie to decoke and sort injectors - they were also taken out and ultrasonically cleaned out.
One thing I believe, with my luck, if I do a full job it will break and I'll be kicking myself and if I don't it will break and I'll be kicking myself.
NGK210 said:
Then it s definitely worth having a look at your V12 s inlet valves.
A fella posted a YouTube vid of his FF s inlets, and after only 20k miles they were seriously gummed up with a yucky tar-like residue.
Was/is inlet valve-cleaning part of Ferrari s 7-year gratis maintenance schedule, I wonder?
I definitely want to get everything cleaned up as a minimum before going further. But I'm worried that excessive or too good a clean might lead to issues as per the REPerformance video.A fella posted a YouTube vid of his FF s inlets, and after only 20k miles they were seriously gummed up with a yucky tar-like residue.
Was/is inlet valve-cleaning part of Ferrari s 7-year gratis maintenance schedule, I wonder?
Another issue that has come up is the price of gaskets. Lee went to order the OEM gaskets and the price has increased by 10 x per gasket!!! How come???!!!!
Now I need to find aftermarket gaskets.
You don't happen to know who does those? Preferably steel multi layer type.
You'll want to know the quality of any pattern gaskets preferably with someone with experience...
I know a Mercedes specialist, Mercedes are particularly poor at supporting their classic market and now all he can get are pattern gaskets and they simply don't last. I've been shown them, they look good, identical to what comes out but don't work-he refuses to fit them but he's routinely now turning down work on the cars.
I know a Mercedes specialist, Mercedes are particularly poor at supporting their classic market and now all he can get are pattern gaskets and they simply don't last. I've been shown them, they look good, identical to what comes out but don't work-he refuses to fit them but he's routinely now turning down work on the cars.
cake eater said:
One thing I believe, with my luck, if I do a full job it will break and I'll be kicking myself and if I don't it will break and I'll be kicking myself.
I'm in the mindset of it will be what it will be. Its a Ferrari, whatever you do it will do the complete opposite, so don't beat yourself up over it.PRO5T said:
You'll want to know the quality of any pattern gaskets preferably with someone with experience...
I know a Mercedes specialist, Mercedes are particularly poor at supporting their classic market and now all he can get are pattern gaskets and they simply don't last. I've been shown them, they look good, identical to what comes out but don't work-he refuses to fit them but he's routinely now turning down work on the cars.
I'm also concerned about this. The OEM price increase is just crazy. A quick Google search hasn't been very fruitful for gaskets.I know a Mercedes specialist, Mercedes are particularly poor at supporting their classic market and now all he can get are pattern gaskets and they simply don't last. I've been shown them, they look good, identical to what comes out but don't work-he refuses to fit them but he's routinely now turning down work on the cars.
That's lots of junk on the pistons. Having dismantled several 928 engines which are known for burning some oil I have never seen even half as bad situation. Its possible to clean up piston tops without taking them out but there is risk of junk getting around rings and causing problems.
928 GTS said:
That's lots of junk on the pistons. Having dismantled several 928 engines which are known for burning some oil I have never seen even half as bad situation. Its possible to clean up piston tops without taking them out but there is risk of junk getting around rings and causing problems.
At the moment, going further is stalled as the parts aren't available to rebuild the engine and even if you could they're listed at 10 X the price. I'm concerned about the carbon build up also. Is it the mapping? Is it the rings? Or something else? Or just normal as Hughesie said. Crazy!
cake eater said:
Hughesie said:
I'm in the mindset of it will be what it will be. Its a Ferrari, whatever you do it will do the complete opposite, so don't beat yourself up over it.
Yeah, once in, go all in, right 
I'll email peter.dietsch@autofficinaparts.co.uk
Thank you
He's also confirmed that the parts are not available and are on back order.
Aftermarket isn't available from the OEM supplier.
cake eater said:
NGK210 said:
Then it s definitely worth having a look at your V12 s inlet valves.
A fella posted a YouTube vid of his FF s inlets, and after only 20k miles they were seriously gummed up with a yucky tar-like residue.
Was/is inlet valve-cleaning part of Ferrari s 7-year gratis maintenance schedule, I wonder?
I definitely want to get everything cleaned up as a minimum before going further. But I'm worried that excessive or too good a clean might lead to issues as per the REPerformance video.A fella posted a YouTube vid of his FF s inlets, and after only 20k miles they were seriously gummed up with a yucky tar-like residue.
Was/is inlet valve-cleaning part of Ferrari s 7-year gratis maintenance schedule, I wonder?
…
However, Ricky also advocates ‘walnut blasting’ for cleaning direct-injection engines’ inlet valves – indeed, he mentions it’s the method REP uses.
As your engine is already on the bench, you might as well inspect the inlets? (TBH, I’m surprised your mechanic hasn’t recommended anyway.)
If he hasn’t / can’t, you can get a cheap but effective borescope attachment for iThings from Amazon.
As Ricky said in REP vid, gummed up inlets can cause engines to lose >100bhp. (Will also feck MPG and trigger EMLs.)
And worst case scenario, eventually the crud causes the valves to in effect ‘weld’ shut, which’ll obvs blow up an engine
Oh, and here’s the vid I mentioned showing a 20k FF’s inlets:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CUZonXF-l-Q&t=49...
And the thread discussing vid on Fchat (obvs, we now know the twit recommending chemical cleaning is talking b*llocks):
https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/ferrari-...
Hughesie said:
Haha Not a chance
NGK210 said:
cake eater said:
NGK210 said:
Then it s definitely worth having a look at your V12 s inlet valves.
A fella posted a YouTube vid of his FF s inlets, and after only 20k miles they were seriously gummed up with a yucky tar-like residue.
Was/is inlet valve-cleaning part of Ferrari s 7-year gratis maintenance schedule, I wonder?
I definitely want to get everything cleaned up as a minimum before going further. But I'm worried that excessive or too good a clean might lead to issues as per the REPerformance video.A fella posted a YouTube vid of his FF s inlets, and after only 20k miles they were seriously gummed up with a yucky tar-like residue.
Was/is inlet valve-cleaning part of Ferrari s 7-year gratis maintenance schedule, I wonder?
However, Ricky also advocates walnut blasting for cleaning direct-injection engines inlet valves indeed, he mentions it s the method REP uses.
As your engine is already on the bench, you might as well inspect the inlets? (TBH, I m surprised your mechanic hasn t recommended anyway.)
If he hasn t / can t, you can get a cheap but effective borescope attachment for iThings from Amazon.
As Ricky said in REP vid, gummed up inlets can cause engines to lose >100bhp. (Will also feck MPG and trigger EMLs.)
And worst case scenario, eventually the crud causes the valves to in effect weld shut, which ll obvs blow up an engine
Oh, and here s the vid I mentioned showing a 20k FF s inlets:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CUZonXF-l-Q&t=49...
And the thread discussing vid on Fchat (obvs, we now know the twit recommending chemical cleaning is talking b*llocks):
https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/ferrari-...
Yes, Lee has suggested cleaning. We have been discussing the total hours required to do the engine properly vs my pension / second mortgage. Ferrari quote 80 hrs labour. Because of the amount of cleaning I'll likely need more.
Injectors are going to be cleaned and tested. But going further at the moment seems pointless until I can get an engine gasket kit.
Interestingly, at work, an old school trick is to use nut plug when they don't have the proper chemicals and disposable sponges available. Another thing to search. I missed that on REPs' video.
Edited by cake eater on Friday 14th November 14:47
Gents,
Lets start with the fact that the 599 isn't a direct injection engine. Look at the photo that Cake provided of the combustion chamber in the head. You can see the four valves and the centrally situated hole for the spark plug, There are no other holes in the roof, which means the injector fires in the port and not directly in the cylinder...
Having also dismantled and rebuild several early Porsche 928 GTS 5spd engines which burned a lot of oil, I can 100% tell you that the deposits on the pistons is carbonated engine oil. Having gone this far, it would be total madness not to check your exhaust valve guides - they run much hotter than the inlet ones, which are cooled by the incoming fuel mixture, and consequently wear out first, and also of course your piston rings. If you do frequent oil changes and she runs rich, thus diluting the oil in the sump and has cats which would trap the tell tale blue smoke, you would not tell if she really burns oil or not...
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news...
P.S. For gaskets - reach out to Elring and Victor Reinz - they are the usual OEM Suspects/Supliers. Elring a lot better of late than VR. If this fails, reach out to Cometic - they make one offs for everything. Have it on my 400bhp 944 Cup car and it has been faultless..
Lets start with the fact that the 599 isn't a direct injection engine. Look at the photo that Cake provided of the combustion chamber in the head. You can see the four valves and the centrally situated hole for the spark plug, There are no other holes in the roof, which means the injector fires in the port and not directly in the cylinder...
Having also dismantled and rebuild several early Porsche 928 GTS 5spd engines which burned a lot of oil, I can 100% tell you that the deposits on the pistons is carbonated engine oil. Having gone this far, it would be total madness not to check your exhaust valve guides - they run much hotter than the inlet ones, which are cooled by the incoming fuel mixture, and consequently wear out first, and also of course your piston rings. If you do frequent oil changes and she runs rich, thus diluting the oil in the sump and has cats which would trap the tell tale blue smoke, you would not tell if she really burns oil or not...
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news...
P.S. For gaskets - reach out to Elring and Victor Reinz - they are the usual OEM Suspects/Supliers. Elring a lot better of late than VR. If this fails, reach out to Cometic - they make one offs for everything. Have it on my 400bhp 944 Cup car and it has been faultless..
Cheburator mk2 said:
Gents,
Lets start with the fact that the 599 isn't a direct injection engine. Look at the photo that Cake provided of the combustion chamber in the head. You can see the four valves and the centrally situated hole for the spark plug, There are no other holes in the roof, which means the injector fires in the port and not directly in the cylinder...
Having also dismantled and rebuild several early Porsche 928 GTS 5spd engines which burned a lot of oil, I can 100% tell you that the deposits on the pistons is carbonated engine oil. Having gone this far, it would be total madness not to check your exhaust valve guides - they run much hotter than the inlet ones, which are cooled by the incoming fuel mixture, and consequently wear out first, and also of course your piston rings. If you do frequent oil changes and she runs rich, thus diluting the oil in the sump and has cats which would trap the tell tale blue smoke, you would not tell if she really burns oil or not...
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news...
P.S. For gaskets - reach out to Elring and Victor Reinz - they are the usual OEM Suspects/Supliers. Elring a lot better of late than VR. If this fails, reach out to Cometic - they make one offs for everything. Have it on my 400bhp 944 Cup car and it has been faultless..
A very good observation. Wiki not to be trusted.Lets start with the fact that the 599 isn't a direct injection engine. Look at the photo that Cake provided of the combustion chamber in the head. You can see the four valves and the centrally situated hole for the spark plug, There are no other holes in the roof, which means the injector fires in the port and not directly in the cylinder...
Having also dismantled and rebuild several early Porsche 928 GTS 5spd engines which burned a lot of oil, I can 100% tell you that the deposits on the pistons is carbonated engine oil. Having gone this far, it would be total madness not to check your exhaust valve guides - they run much hotter than the inlet ones, which are cooled by the incoming fuel mixture, and consequently wear out first, and also of course your piston rings. If you do frequent oil changes and she runs rich, thus diluting the oil in the sump and has cats which would trap the tell tale blue smoke, you would not tell if she really burns oil or not...
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news...
P.S. For gaskets - reach out to Elring and Victor Reinz - they are the usual OEM Suspects/Supliers. Elring a lot better of late than VR. If this fails, reach out to Cometic - they make one offs for everything. Have it on my 400bhp 944 Cup car and it has been faultless..
Elring (I understand, and I've been often proven to be very wrong) make the gaskets for Ferrari and will not supply aftermarket.
Victor Reinz I've just checked but nothing listed.
Thank you for the suggestions and clarifications, really appreciated
Cheburator mk2 said:
Gents,
Lets start with the fact that the 599 isn't a direct injection engine. Look at the photo that Cake provided of the combustion chamber in the head...
Ah, didn’t look at that pic, that’ll be the clue, then Lets start with the fact that the 599 isn't a direct injection engine. Look at the photo that Cake provided of the combustion chamber in the head...
Anyhoo, it’s another good reason to get a 599 – it has port injection!
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