Every day tips for living with a 599

[928 GTS]

Many people view Ferrari as pinnacle of engineering. In reality they are sometimes very conservative. Direct fuel injection came to modern gasoline engines in around 1997. It would be almost abnormal if Ferrari were using it under 10 years later in 599.

[cake eater]

928 GTS said:

Many people view Ferrari as pinnacle of engineering. In reality they are sometimes very conservative. Direct fuel injection came to modern gasoline engines in around 1997. It would be almost abnormal if Ferrari were using it under 10 years later in 599.

I have always seen Ferrari as brand that people follow for history and passion. When I was younger I wasn't a Ferrari fan. And now I think I'm cheering more for Lewis than Ferrari and I wasn't much of a fan of his either.

For engineering I have always thought Ferrari lesser to Porsche or McLaren.

Having said that, I think the current generation are marvels of mechanical, electrical and software engineering. And the interior quality, you really feel like you're in something special.

The closest I've got is to sit in a car at a dealer. Oh well. Maybe if I wasn't in a 599 I'd have a lease on a 296. Though I'm concerned at the number I see on a ramp at the dealer with the electrics hanging out of it

[Hughesie]

cake eater said:

I've decided to go all in

Good Luck Comrade !

[cake eater]

Hughesie said:

cake eater said:

I've decided to go all in

Good Luck Comrade !

Thanks

There are some good videos of a Ferrari 355 V8 engine rebuild on Normal Guy Supercar YouTube channel. Very good info on what to check/ measure and what the build spec and tolerances are. Interestingly he says that these detailed mechanics videos don't get any views so he stopped doing them.

Finding V12 rebuild videos are hard. Lots of classic V12 videos and Barkaways Ferrari YouTube channel has a section called the engine corner which is also interesting.

Well at least for me. So armed with a little Google and YouTube channel knowledge (or miss information as has been proven before) Lee and I had a good chat about what was important do, what's of value.

So basically, strip down clean measure and replace. Once we get hold of an engine rebuild kit most of what will be replaced will already be decided from what's in the kit.

Edited by cake eater on Tuesday 18th November 08:12

[cake eater]

Here are the bottom end pictures. To my uneducated eye, it doesn't look too bad? Maybe the wear is a little uneven? Some pitting can be seen.



What looks like tree roots in the Oil pump screen is silicone. Lee says it's actually pretty clean.











As 928 GTS clearly stated, looks like the oil ring is passing, it's coated in carbon. Lee says it's a common failure point. Ring gaps not been measured











This one is a concern as it looks like more wear on one shell (more copper is visible) than the others.

https://www.enginebuildermag.com/2019/06/engine-be...







https://www.kingbearings.com/wp-content/uploads/20...

https://www.ms-motorservice.com/MediaAssets/damage...

https://youtu.be/ZGUx90gvp94?si=bh451j7Fr9n0Bbj0

Think I've ended up down a rabbit hole of "interpretation of engine main bearing wear"

I think I even bored myself

Okay, maybe not quite yet. I do like this channel
https://youtu.be/Zr-gGOa2Jnk?si=G74crw_RjSQYrH1T

Edited by cake eater on Tuesday 18th November 08:22

Edited by cake eater on Tuesday 18th November 08:26

Edited by cake eater on Tuesday 18th November 08:32

Edited by cake eater on Tuesday 18th November 08:36

[cake eater]

All the cylinders show the same blackening at the top.



More evidence of the oil control ring passing as noted by 928 GTS as well as excessive combustion chamber temps and possibly further indication of detonation.

Detonation and uneven cylinder pressure can also be reason for the bearing wear, along with excessive heat (all of sudden I have the knowledge of a YouTube influencer)

I don't know what more I should do to reduce engine temps but certainly the mapping fueling needs to addressed.

Edited by cake eater on Tuesday 18th November 13:19

[Cheburator mk2]

Great photos, Cake!

I also see that one of the tcrank thrust bearing washers shows more copper than the others... Is it part of the main bearing assembly with the excess wear?

I see that the engine has oil squirters to cool down the pistons from underneath - short piston skirts, forged pistons, no wonder she likes a drink even though there is a dry sump... Surprised how coked up the rings look in the photos. I would definitely check ring gap and also piston to bore clearance... Just for sanity...

[Cheburator mk2]

cake eater said:

All the cylinders show the same blackening at the top.



More evidence of the oil control run passing as noted by 928 GTS as well as excessive combustion chamber temps and possibly further indication of detonation.

Detonation and uneven cylinder pressure can also be reason for the bearing wear, along with excessive heat (all of sudden I have the knowledge of a YouTube influencer)

I don't know what more I should do to reduce engine temps but certainly the mapping fueling needs to addressed.

You should not have detonation - unless the remap was done by a full on circus gorilla. Your ECU would listen for knock and would retard individual cylinder timing in a fraction of a second. Then the ECU would slowly advance timing back until it senses another knock. Remaps can make the car feel more responsive by lessening the retard values and also by speeding up recovery, but a good mapper knows when to play safe...

Bearings worn by detonation look very different. The dark band at the top of the cylinders is normal, especially after looking at the state of your oil control rings. Bores look perfect though, which is good...

[Oldwolf]

I've nothing helpful to add but wanted to say thanks for sharing your journey, it's both fascinating and terrifying (and makes what I've spent on my XJR this year a lot less painful!)

Looking forward to the next instalment...!

[cake eater]

Cheburator mk2 said:

Great photos, Cake!

I also see that one of the tcrank thrust bearing washers shows more copper than the others... Is it part of the main bearing assembly with the excess wear?

My understanding from Lee, the wear is all on the same side / location, please excuse the poor technical knowledge.

Cheburator mk2 said:

Great photos, Cake!

Surprised how coked up the rings look in the photos. I would definitely check ring gap and also piston to bore clearance... Just for sanity...

That's two of the checks that I've agreed with Lee.

This process is also clearly shown in this video
https://youtu.be/wXCkE0bxjv4?si=tuNyGsA0FjH8zNI7

[cake eater]

Cheburator mk2 said:

cake eater said:

All the cylinders show the same blackening at the top.



More evidence of the oil control run passing as noted by 928 GTS as well as excessive combustion chamber temps and possibly further indication of detonation.

Detonation and uneven cylinder pressure can also be reason for the bearing wear, along with excessive heat (all of sudden I have the knowledge of a YouTube influencer)

I don't know what more I should do to reduce engine temps but certainly the mapping fueling needs to addressed.

You should not have detonation - unless the remap was done by a full on circus gorilla. Your ECU would listen for knock and would retard individual cylinder timing in a fraction of a second. Then the ECU would slowly advance timing back until it senses another knock. Remaps can make the car feel more responsive by lessening the retard values and also by speeding up recovery, but a good mapper knows when to play safe...

Bearings worn by detonation look very different. The dark band at the top of the cylinders is normal, especially after looking at the state of your oil control rings. Bores look perfect though, which is good...

Lee said the same of the bore condition. But definitely needs to be measured up for ovality / coning.

For the bearing wear and detonation your understanding and interpretation will be much more knowledgeable and accurate than mine. As I have been unsure of the cause, my 5 mins of Google research lead me to believe that heat and / or poor fuel mapping could also be a cause for the coke build up in the cylinders. As Lee has stripped the engine and 928 GTS had already surmised, this is most likely wear of the oil ring.

I've always been a little worried by the mapping I had done. At first I was very happy and I believed it was a good map, done conservatively, the car was much better in the mid range and made no more power. But I was very unimpressed by the response from the company when I initially raised concerns, when I had manettino problems a few days after. They were right, it wasn't a mapping problem but a failing alternator that was giving me issues, however their response to my concerns soured me to the work they'd done.

Of course, in hindsight, how could an ECU map affect the manettino? When I was in Romania, the lead technician that looked after my car said that the ECU only allows timing changes within a small range or it will throw an EML. Kind of has me feeling like John Snow after Ygritte mocks him for being so knowledgeable

[cake eater]

Oldwolf said:

I've nothing helpful to add but wanted to say thanks for sharing your journey, it's both fascinating and terrifying (and makes what I've spent on my XJR this year a lot less painful!)

Looking forward to the next instalment...!

Hello!

Yeah, the costs are terrifying. And I think I've put at least one person off.

What year is your XJR? Full restoration? I had an ex police advanced driving instructor who's first love was a supercharged XJR.

[928 GTS]

cake eater said:

What looks like tree roots in the Oil pump screen is silicone. Lee says it's actually pretty clean.

Silicone at oil pan seem to be common and normal even from factory. This was my 550 oil pump screens.

[ANOpax]

Where is all the silicone coming from?

[cake eater]

ANOpax said:

Where is all the silicone coming from?

I know, strange. I guess it's just excessive sealant?

[DeejRC]

cake eater said:

Oldwolf said:

I've nothing helpful to add but wanted to say thanks for sharing your journey, it's both fascinating and terrifying (and makes what I've spent on my XJR this year a lot less painful!)

Looking forward to the next instalment...!

Hello!

Yeah, the costs are terrifying. And I think I've put at least one person off.

What year is your XJR? Full restoration? I had an ex police advanced driving instructor who's first love was a supercharged XJR.

You scared me off 599s last year Cake. This year I only read your posts whilst hiding behind the sofa!

[Oldwolf]

cake eater said:

Hello!

Yeah, the costs are terrifying. And I think I've put at least one person off.

What year is your XJR? Full restoration? I had an ex police advanced driving instructor who's first love was a supercharged XJR.

Thanks, my XJR is a 2005 (so the 4.2SC), Japanese import so body in amazing condition but at 20 years old it had some foibles that I decided I'd attend to this year. I have been very impressed with it, a lovely car!

The reason I'm hanging around in this corner of PH is that I'm hoping to buy a 550M in the near future, I won't be tracking it (although I plan to use it) so hopefully my expenditure on that will be less than your 599 but it will be what it is!

[Thom]

cake eater said:

I guess it's just excessive sealant?

Pretty sure it is. Found the same in the gearbox oil filter on my 550 the first time I took it off (so much for a dealer-serviced car...). It seems to be used to seal engine or gearbox components assembled together without a gasket. Older Porsches use similar stuff expect in orange.

[928 GTS]

Seems like how much excess silicone is inside engine depends on if it was Piero or Luigi who put it together and if it was Monday morning and hangover or normal Wednesday afternoon when it was done.

[cake eater]

928 GTS said:

Seems like how much excess silicone is inside engine depends on if it was Piero or Luigi who put it together and if it was Monday morning and hangover or normal Wednesday afternoon when it was done.

There is a related engine failure for Toyota GR86

https://www.thedrive.com/news/toyota-gr86-owners-a...

I believe in the end Toyota put it down to an over exuberant robot