Every day tips for living with a 599

[cake eater]

Today I managed to get back to the UK and sneaked a visit to MDL supercars.

Always a pleasure to catch up with Lee and Ryan.

Progress is being made with the braking system. Master cylinder / servo and abs pump / ECU have been changed for the GTO versions.

New GTO item on the left is way lighter that the old MC/servo


Old servo looks like it had a leak - diaphragm is known to fail.


New ABS pump ECU




MC/servo in the car


Lee was cursing me for this as what looks like a simple parts swap required lots of fanagliing and probably not a little swearing

[cake eater]

Calipers are also at https://pro-calipers.co.uk/ for refurbishment.

The brakes have always been a little 'draggy' with the fronts especially not spinning freely.

Arrival at pro caliper


Pistons getting pumped out. Lots of corrosion and the calipers were refurbished what does not feel like so long ago





Comment from pro caliper: "Hi Robert
calipers are fully stripped and i can see front calipers seals wasn't genuine brembo and was very hard from overheating. As of this pistons was scraping on calipers. Good news is that you already have pistons replaced so a quick polished made them like new.



And now like new



These are the rears - Not so bad.



Dust boots will have to be replaced

Again, hopefully this will help with the braking performance. I'm going to add the GTO cooling ducts. Unfortunately it's not an optimal system as it ducts air direct to the caliper and not to the hub centre.




Proper cool air should be directed like this
https://youtu.be/iDdLJcvcZBA?si=t-emjMB3rIDGBSFT

I was going to try to adapt a BMW / Audi kit but there's just no room for a nice clean / neat solution.

[Stedman]

Brembos and pistons corroding, guaranteed after death and taxes

[cake eater]

Stedman said:

Brembos and pistons corroding, guaranteed after death and taxes

Hi Stedman, corrosion is a constant issue, especially with the OEM Brembo pistons.

I was hoping to put titanium pistons in but the person on fchat who was trying to get them manufactured got the run around. Too small a job I think.

Pro Caliper have said that the front pistons are stainless steel from hill engineering, so good quality. Pro caliper are going to replace the seals with OEM Brembo so hopefully better at surviving the heat.

I also wanted to install P-Def liners but also I don't think a big enough market for them to take on my request
https://evocorse.com/en/our-jacks/

[cake eater]

More work, this time gearbox oil cooler which is completely blocked, I was pretty shocked when I saw the pictures. Decision to change it was because I was concerned about potential metal debris from the LSD. Turns out completely different requirement to change it and will need to add some preventative inspection plan so it doesn't ever get this bad again.

Condition is terrible





New one will be installed


The gearbox oil cooler cover is also going to get cleaned up and painted / powder coated.


I did ask Lee if he'd been rallying my car but he said it was definitely me. I don't remember any grass tracking so has to just be a build up due to location and no way to easily access it to see / clean it. Other issues lead me to have concerns about gearbox oil temp getting too high, though never any warning light.

[cake eater]

New sills have gone in also. No damage as such or corrosion. Replaced because the captive nuts for the under trays are no longer captive



Reminds me of the Ghoul speaking to dogmeat about the ship the Theseus.

A theme that's come up a few times on this thread, replacing parts of this expensive donkey

[F355GTS]

cake eater said:

More work, this time gearbox oil cooler which is completely blocked, I was pretty shocked when I saw the pictures. Decision to change it was because I was concerned about potential metal debris from the LSD. Turns out completely different requirement to change it and will need to add some preventative inspection plan so it doesn't ever get this bad again.

Condition is terrible





New one will be installed


The gearbox oil cooler cover is also going to get cleaned up and painted / powder coated.


I did ask Lee if he'd been rallying my car but he said it was definitely me. I don't remember any grass tracking so has to just be a build up due to location and no way to easily access it to see / clean it. Other issues lead me to have concerns about gearbox oil temp getting too high, though never any warning light.

[Hughesie]

How much were the sills, mine need doing as my captive nuts no longer work either !

My gearbox cooler went a while ago - its in the most ridiculous of places isnt it !

[cake eater]

Hughesie said:

How much were the sills, mine need doing as my captive nuts no longer work either !

My gearbox cooler went a while ago - its in the most ridiculous of places isnt it !

I think I paid 100 per side, including the VAT? But I bought a couple years ago and they've been on the shelf waiting for this moment

https://www.scuderiacarparts.com/part/33101/ferrar...



And it really is in a stupid place

[cake eater]

Thomas at https://pro-calipers.co.uk/ has completed refurbishing the brakes

Calipers and Pistons all cleaned up, new Brembo seals and dust caps installed

Fronts





Rears





New stainless steel screws, with correct thread lock


New Brembo bleed nipples

[Hughesie]

You didn't fancy a colour change to yellow - Yellow would look good on that car colour i think

[cake eater]

This is a bit of a long story. I was watching this video
https://youtu.be/TyqW7cQ1loM?si=7NsCf0XZXBsxZTzU

And David Moore Engineering was featured.
https://www.davidmooreengineering.com/

So last time at work I called him for advice on the rebuild of my 599 engine. David was a pleasure to speak to and gave me very good advice concerning isotropic super finishing.

While I was at MDL, Lee pointed out that the torque tube had grumbling bearings.

A quick check on Marenello parts showed that the torque tube has been superceded 3 times and availability was in question.

So I thought, why not rebuild rather than replace?

So I called David Moore Engineering who said he might be able to help.



Had the tube laid out


Made a preliminary inspection






I was surprised by the amount of rubber in the bearings, obviously to manage vibration and oscillation in the shaft.

I was also surprised by how small the diameter of the shaft was, to transmit the torque to the gearbox

David called the manufacturer in Marenello only to be told that it was not able to be rebuilt and they wouldn't sell the bearings.

David kindly showed me around his work shop.

Engine build room with an 812 block


New CNC machine


And he also went through the process of checking all the oil galleries in the crank




If I ever get around to building a 6.3 engine for the 599, I'm going to David Moore Engineering.

[928 GTS]

cake eater said:

I was surprised by the amount of rubber in the bearings, obviously to manage vibration and oscillation in the shaft.

I was also surprised by how small the diameter of the shaft was, to transmit the torque to the gearbox

David called the manufacturer in Marenello only to be told that it was not able to be rebuilt and they wouldn't sell the bearings.

Same were told about 924, 928, 944, 968 etc. tubes years ago. I bet Ferrari tubes can be rebuild. They are better made than Porsche ones but every bearing ever made will eventually need to be changed. Porsche problems have much better solutions than what factory provided back then and now. Same will happen with Ferrari's.

https://www.blackseard.com

[cake eater]

928 GTS said:

Same were told about 924, 928, 944, 968 etc. tubes years ago. I bet Ferrari tubes can be rebuild. They are better made than Porsche ones but every bearing ever made will eventually need to be changed. Porsche problems have much better solutions than what factory provided back then and now. Same will happen with Ferrari's.

https://www.blackseard.com

You're right about it being able to be rebuilt. Problem is time, cost and parts.

The opinion of David is that the bearings are just pressed in to a position, there doesn't look to be any shoulder or circlip to land out on. There are 4 main bearings. The shaft is also just pressed into place and was easy enough to tap out. Which is also perhaps suggestive of wear?

Main issue is sourcing the bearings and the OEM wouldn't sell. The bearings themselves don't look like a common part but we'd have to pull everything apart to find out. It would be an interesting project for a different time

And for sure, I think a better solution could be found. I am convinced a lot of weight could be taken out, reduced frictional losses, less vibration

[cake eater]

Next stop on the journey with the 599 was Tillett
https://www.tillett.co.uk/category/car-racing-seat...



I think I can lose a good bit of weight out of the car. My unofficial target is my body weight.

I had a look at Recaro SPG, they're a good match for the OEM seat shape and felt comfortable but somehow just didn't quite feel right in my head.

I have Tillett in my Caterham and love how they hug you and they're surprisingly comfortable on a long trip.

I tried B8/9 and B10. It was so hard to choose


B9 - i think heart wants these


I shared some interior pictures of my 599 and we have agreed a rough way forward to try to keep a little of the OEM look.

Archie recommended some seat mounts
https://www.plantedtechnology.com/collections/ferr...
And said that a 430 customer had mounted directly with no adapter plate required.

But this has now dropped low on the to do list. Anyway, for the future

[leglessAlex]

Tilletts are so incredibly comfortable, wildly at odds with their uncompromising look.

I'd love some for the A110, but the Mrs also drives it so I need to find a way of putting them on a height adjustable base.

[928 GTS]

cake eater said:

The opinion of David is that the bearings are just pressed in to a position, there doesn't look to be any shoulder or circlip to land out on. There are 4 main bearings. The shaft is also just pressed into place and was easy enough to tap out. Which is also perhaps suggestive of wear?

It can't be too tight or shaft couldn't be installed. I bet way its put together is bearings are pushed into correct places and then shaft itself inserted in through them. They don't have to be tight. One way to do it could be cooling shaft to -40C and just dropping it in. Its absolutely certain that its not rocket science as these are mass production models after all. They did do these parts at some sort of production line like setup. It was simple operation.

cake eater said:

Main issue is sourcing the bearings and the OEM wouldn't sell. The bearings themselves don't look like a common part but we'd have to pull everything apart to find out. It would be an interesting project for a different time

If it needs to be done then now is the time. On Porsche factory setup bearings are little special but they can be found if one really wants to. In case of Ferrari only way to find out is to look for numbers in them. Its unlikely they are truly special. Size is probably from some normal bearing series. There can be larger C tolerance number than normal or at least Porsche ones are to allow them more movement. Grease is likely better heat resistant than very basic common version and side seals can be better also. These are variations that can be done by aftermarket bearing supplies.

cake eater said:

And for sure, I think a better solution could be found. I am convinced a lot of weight could be taken out, reduced frictional losses, less vibration

Aftermarket Porsche bearing carriers are actually much heavier than stock setup. In stock 928 tube there is cast weight mounted on rubber mounts inside the tube between two bearings. Its there to help on certain frequency vibrations caused by driving over concrete motorway joints. Same way as Ferrari setup Porsche's have engine mounter to body by two mounts and gearbox on other end also on two mounts. In case of certain interval motorway joints entire engine, tube and gearbox package can start to oscillate. Factory extra ballast inside the tube is there to prevent this. When aftermarket bearings are installed stock ballast in left out and heavier mounts installed in to have same effect. Makes sense to leave ballast out as it can start to move around and act like battering ram back and forth inside big tube around center shaft.

[cake eater]

leglessAlex said:

Tilletts are so incredibly comfortable, wildly at odds with their uncompromising look.

I'd love some for the A110, but the Mrs also drives it so I need to find a way of putting them on a height adjustable base.

I really like the A110 and think the standard Sabelt bucket really nice. The tillett B9 carbon are only 3.5 kg and perfectly suited to the A110 lightweight philosophy.

Making them height adjustable without a spanner is something Tillett need to look at.

[cake eater]

Hughesie said:

You didn't fancy a colour change to yellow - Yellow would look good on that car colour i think

I also agree that yellow would be great and matches the shields.

Unfortunately pro caliper won't repaint and it was an opportunity to save a little costs.

[leglessAlex]

cake eater said:

leglessAlex said:

Tilletts are so incredibly comfortable, wildly at odds with their uncompromising look.

I'd love some for the A110, but the Mrs also drives it so I need to find a way of putting them on a height adjustable base.

I really like the A110 and think the standard Sabelt bucket really nice. The tillett B9 carbon are only 3.5 kg and perfectly suited to the A110 lightweight philosophy.

Making them height adjustable without a spanner is something Tillett need to look at.

The standard buckets are far more comfortable than the comfort seats, unfortunately mine has the comfort seats, they're good as they give the height adjustment, but the car was ex demo so I had to make do.

I think the standard rails do actually only have four mounting points, so it'll be interesting to see if the Tilletts can be grafted on. I'll file it under the long list of things I'd like to do lol.

I'm looking at 599s as a stablemate for the A110, but this thread scares me a little. Okay, £85-100k gets a car but I wonder if then it's prudent to put it through £30-50k of preemptive and remedial work, and that's a lot of dosh.