Every day tips for living with a 599
Discussion
DeejRC said:
Alas Cake, now you know why Italian car ownership is a “thing”.
Basically…this is normal. Sorry. If you are lucky, the experiences add up to eventually provide you the cure, otherwise known as Porsche. If you are unlucky you never learn and decide that perhaps other Italian cars are better and before you know it you are exploring Alfas, Lancias…
I'm thinking I got the man maths wrong and should have got an F12!Basically…this is normal. Sorry. If you are lucky, the experiences add up to eventually provide you the cure, otherwise known as Porsche. If you are unlucky you never learn and decide that perhaps other Italian cars are better and before you know it you are exploring Alfas, Lancias…
DeejRC said:
Oh. You want to double down and increase your Donkey exposure? Outstanding that man! Welcome to the Italian logic club 
It's very logical The initial diagnosis by GreyPaul Nottingham is air flow sensor failure. Along with the previous air temperature failure. All the these sensor failures have generally been in race mode with the car being enjoyed. I think if I had used the car less and treated the car as gently as the previous owners it may have been years before I saw any of these problems. But the car is 14 years old. There's age related degradation / wear. Now the car is being used more, used harder, it's accelerating the failures.
So the logic which I know you get, is spend more money, buy a younger F12 that can take the abuse.
One problem.
My other thought is to use the 599 more and harder, get all the failures cleared up, cross my fingers that the New Power Warranty covers them and have a solid car. Keep it and get another donkey. They are herd animals after all and prefer a stable mate!
I think you’ve been a bit unlucky. I ran a 599 for 13 years and apart from two shocks and a transporter driver ruining the clutch (covered in an earlier post) all it had was routine maintenance BUT the service schedule was followed precisely at a main dealer I trust, even if on some occasions the car had done a very low mileage between services. My 599 was used hard quite often. We did the Mille Miglia tribute and a number of other events in Italy and also a number of track days. Talking of which (referring to your earlier post) I didn’t normally have a problem with passing the noise tests. However on one occasion, and I’m going to be deliberately vague here, i failed the noise test. The event was being supported by a Ferrari main dealer who had mechanics on site. I took the car to them and they tied shut the valves (or whatever - tech types will know) on the exhaust. The car then passed the noise test, after which the mechanics undid what they had done and the day passed uneventfully.
I think you’re best to carry on using the car hard (but not abusing it) and hope that you get all the latent problems resolved and then have a reliable car.
The only other thing I would add is that while I may have spent more than some (many?) sticking fastidiously to the Ferrari service schedule, it really paid dividends when I sold the car last year for quite a bit more than I expected.
I think you’re best to carry on using the car hard (but not abusing it) and hope that you get all the latent problems resolved and then have a reliable car.
The only other thing I would add is that while I may have spent more than some (many?) sticking fastidiously to the Ferrari service schedule, it really paid dividends when I sold the car last year for quite a bit more than I expected.
willy wombat said:
I think you’ve been a bit unlucky. I ran a 599 for 13 years and apart from two shocks and a transporter driver ruining the clutch (covered in an earlier post) all it had was routine maintenance BUT the service schedule was followed precisely at a main dealer I trust, even if on some occasions the car had done a very low mileage between services. My 599 was used hard quite often. We did the Mille Miglia tribute and a number of other events in Italy and also a number of track days. Talking of which (referring to your earlier post) I didn’t normally have a problem with passing the noise tests. However on one occasion, and I’m going to be deliberately vague here, i failed the noise test. The event was being supported by a Ferrari main dealer who had mechanics on site. I took the car to them and they tied shut the valves (or whatever - tech types will know) on the exhaust. The car then passed the noise test, after which the mechanics undid what they had done and the day passed uneventfully.
I think you’re best to carry on using the car hard (but not abusing it) and hope that you get all the latent problems resolved and then have a reliable car.
The only other thing I would add is that while I may have spent more than some (many?) sticking fastidiously to the Ferrari service schedule, it really paid dividends when I sold the car last year for quite a bit more than I expected.
Thanks WW!I think you’re best to carry on using the car hard (but not abusing it) and hope that you get all the latent problems resolved and then have a reliable car.
The only other thing I would add is that while I may have spent more than some (many?) sticking fastidiously to the Ferrari service schedule, it really paid dividends when I sold the car last year for quite a bit more than I expected.
WCZ said:
you've been unlucky thereMaybe it is back luck.
I don't think I have a 'bad' 599, just one that needs some shaking out of the hidden gremlins through a combination of use and maintenance (as WW has stated). I don't think that my 599 has been as meticulously maintained as yours WW but it has a very good service history, serviced almost annually in its 14 years and did not miss a service in the last 7 with the two previous owners. I also think that just plugging in the computer and clearing the faults has been a mistake and gave a false sense of minor issues that could be lived with. These 'minor' faults have been indicative of something more major that needed further investigation and replacement of degenerated equipment / sensors.
The exhaust noise is probably down to the valves opening and 5.5k revlimit for the noise test as well as the strict regs at Bedford. I have thought about getting a valve controller installed as there is no exhaust button. But maybe putting it in ice mode on the Manettino would keep the valves closed at higher revs? Certainly the 98 dB drive by noise limit at Donnington did not cause any problems.
I am hoping that once some more 'Italian tune up' has been completed the 599 will be taking me to Germany in April for a trip to Sachsenring and Nurburgring via the Ruhr Dams and Colditz.
Three trips on the back of a low loader have not taken the shine off yet. We'll see if the bill for the repair does
So GreyPaul have already made an assessment of the problems with the 599. It is basically down to the engine oil being overfilled and getting sucked into the intake manifold and damaging both sensors. This is a £2,300 repair plus oil and filter change.
So I am pretty sure that I have no recourse as there is no way to prove I didn't top up the engine oil, or prove that there has been no work done to the car since it's last service at Stratstone, or that the last service was the result of the overfilled engine oil.
So I am pretty sure that I have no recourse as there is no way to prove I didn't top up the engine oil, or prove that there has been no work done to the car since it's last service at Stratstone, or that the last service was the result of the overfilled engine oil.
very common problem, happened to mine as overfilled by HR Owen, there was so much oil in mine it was running out of the front wing vents and down the wings!.
Managed to get it done under warranty. At some point, 2010?, there was a revised filling procedure (very convoluted) for topping up oil on the 599
Managed to get it done under warranty. At some point, 2010?, there was a revised filling procedure (very convoluted) for topping up oil on the 599
F355GTS said:
very common problem, happened to mine as overfilled by HR Owen, there was so much oil in mine it was running out of the front wing vents and down the wings!.
Managed to get it done under warranty. At some point, 2010?, there was a revised filling procedure (very convoluted) for topping up oil on the 599
Managed to get it done under warranty. At some point, 2010?, there was a revised filling procedure (very convoluted) for topping up oil on the 599
I also think that because the car has been run to the limiter this exacerbated the problems resulting from the over fill.
GreyPaul have been good on the phone, they are going to check the service history with Stratstone and see if they will accept some of the cost. Anyway, no warranty for this but I am glad that there is an obvious and easily rectified solution. Hopefully there are not more problems because of the excess oil.
On a lighter note, Ferrari assistance have been great. I've been given a hire car for a week, Merc E class and I have to say I am very impressed, especially with the MBUX system. But way too many buttons on the steering wheel. Interestingly if I had brought the car in for a service the courtesy car would be fiat 500!
So as expected Stratstone in Manchester have denied any responsibility stating that any failure would have happened in 20 miles. The fact is the car was giving faults straight away but these were incorrectly assumed to be battery related.
Nevermind.
On a separate issue I have found that the car likes to under steer, which I attribute a lot to the tyre setup (245 on the front and 305 on the rear).
It's nice and safe and manageable on the road but I'd like something that is more positive on turn in, especially when I go on track. In discussing this with David at GreyPaul he said that in the Ferrari database there are generally 3-4 different geometries available able for each car and he will see what options are available for the 599.
For the gearbox I've never been too happy with how the car shifts, especially in race mode. As the gearbox ECU has a learning mode, GreyPaul will do this and clear the historical data so when I drive it next, it will be a newborn donkey. I wonder if it will be capable of dual personality and if it learns better in Auto or Manual?
Nevermind.
On a separate issue I have found that the car likes to under steer, which I attribute a lot to the tyre setup (245 on the front and 305 on the rear).
It's nice and safe and manageable on the road but I'd like something that is more positive on turn in, especially when I go on track. In discussing this with David at GreyPaul he said that in the Ferrari database there are generally 3-4 different geometries available able for each car and he will see what options are available for the 599.
For the gearbox I've never been too happy with how the car shifts, especially in race mode. As the gearbox ECU has a learning mode, GreyPaul will do this and clear the historical data so when I drive it next, it will be a newborn donkey. I wonder if it will be capable of dual personality and if it learns better in Auto or Manual?
Edited by cake eater on Wednesday 16th March 11:57
cake eater said:
So as expected Stratstone in Manchester have denied any responsibility stating that any failure would have happened in 20 miles. The fact is the car was giving faults straight away but these were incorrectly assumed to be battery related.
classicEdited by cake eater on Wednesday 16th March 11:57
tty about the oil overfill, but as you've said, to be expected,,DeejRC said:
Alas Cake, now you know why Italian car ownership is a “thing”.
Basically…this is normal. Sorry. If you are lucky, the experiences add up to eventually provide you the cure, otherwise known as Porsche. If you are unlucky you never learn and decide that perhaps other Italian cars are better and before you know it you are exploring Alfas, Lancias…
Aah that doesn't feel fair. I've had a few now and only once had a significant problem, which was with a new 599. It sounds like Cake is running out the gremlins of a car that hasn't been used much or taken care of by the people who should... Basically…this is normal. Sorry. If you are lucky, the experiences add up to eventually provide you the cure, otherwise known as Porsche. If you are unlucky you never learn and decide that perhaps other Italian cars are better and before you know it you are exploring Alfas, Lancias…
Cake eater, I bought a Ferrari that had not been used much for about 3 years. I had to pay the price for this as I started to use the car regularly and drive the car in a spirited manner.
It was dull items like windscreen jets blocked with rust, brittle hoses and wires, blocked brake lines etc. So nothing major but annoying niggles.
Most of these items could be fixed at home in my garage, but I shudder at the thought of trailering the car to a Ferrari main dealer for each of these items.
I’d suggest taking the car to a Ferrari independent specialist and ask them to go through the car to take care of the issues caused by lack of use. Over the years I’ve used Ferrari main dealers and Ferrari independents and they both have roles for Ferrari owners. My experience is that main dealers are less likely to be prepared to do preventative maintenance, preferring to replace parts instead.
Then you need to drive the car regularly. Ferraris tucked away in storage are just building up problems. They benefit from being used.
It was dull items like windscreen jets blocked with rust, brittle hoses and wires, blocked brake lines etc. So nothing major but annoying niggles.
Most of these items could be fixed at home in my garage, but I shudder at the thought of trailering the car to a Ferrari main dealer for each of these items.
I’d suggest taking the car to a Ferrari independent specialist and ask them to go through the car to take care of the issues caused by lack of use. Over the years I’ve used Ferrari main dealers and Ferrari independents and they both have roles for Ferrari owners. My experience is that main dealers are less likely to be prepared to do preventative maintenance, preferring to replace parts instead.
Then you need to drive the car regularly. Ferraris tucked away in storage are just building up problems. They benefit from being used.
belfry said:
Cake eater, I bought a Ferrari that had not been used much for about 3 years. I had to pay the price for this as I started to use the car regularly and drive the car in a spirited manner.
It was dull items like windscreen jets blocked with rust, brittle hoses and wires, blocked brake lines etc. So nothing major but annoying niggles.
Most of these items could be fixed at home in my garage, but I shudder at the thought of trailering the car to a Ferrari main dealer for each of these items.
I’d suggest taking the car to a Ferrari independent specialist and ask them to go through the car to take care of the issues caused by lack of use. Over the years I’ve used Ferrari main dealers and Ferrari independents and they both have roles for Ferrari owners. My experience is that main dealers are less likely to be prepared to do preventative maintenance, preferring to replace parts instead.
Then you need to drive the car regularly. Ferraris tucked away in storage are just building up problems. They benefit from being used.
Hi Belfry,It was dull items like windscreen jets blocked with rust, brittle hoses and wires, blocked brake lines etc. So nothing major but annoying niggles.
Most of these items could be fixed at home in my garage, but I shudder at the thought of trailering the car to a Ferrari main dealer for each of these items.
I’d suggest taking the car to a Ferrari independent specialist and ask them to go through the car to take care of the issues caused by lack of use. Over the years I’ve used Ferrari main dealers and Ferrari independents and they both have roles for Ferrari owners. My experience is that main dealers are less likely to be prepared to do preventative maintenance, preferring to replace parts instead.
Then you need to drive the car regularly. Ferraris tucked away in storage are just building up problems. They benefit from being used.
Thank you for sharing and I have pretty much tried to do as you recommended. When I was researching 599 ownership one area I looked at was independent Ferrari specialists as some other owners had shared their experience of dealer service quality. Having said that I do feel that Maranello and GreyPaul have provided me with a good service. Stratstone who did the last service and warranty inspection I will be avoiding.
I narrowed the independents down to 3 based on forum recommendations and location. When I started calling these independents they recommenced Mark at MDL specialist cars to look after the 599. For various reasons I wasn't able to get a PPI done so after purchasing the car I took it to MDL for an inspection. They identified a couple of things that needed to be addressed (missed on the warranty inspection). The car was supposed to go to them at the beginning of April to have these items replaced with Hill's Engineering parts. Unfortunately because of the engine oil overfill and work calling me back early, I'll miss that appointment.
The car came with one year Ferrari New Power Warranty which included Ferrari Assistance. So where required for warranty, I will use the dealer network, otherwise I intend to have MDL look after the car. For breakdown I'll look to get Ferrari assistance again as you get priority for recovery and also priority at the dealership for repair work.
I do intend to use the car regularly. Unfortunately work and travel restrictions mean that my car will spend months at a time in the garage on a trickle charger.
So GreyPaul have been great and should have the car done today. I am waiting for them to call and confirm I can collect the car.
They have been very good agreeing to install Hill's Engineering parts including 20mm spacers. Only issue is the more aggressive geo I requested, the cost for them to do this is 1000 + VAT so I have said no.
I will get it done by my preferred suspension place https://centergravity.co.uk/ or https://suspensionsecrets.co.uk/
They have been very good agreeing to install Hill's Engineering parts including 20mm spacers. Only issue is the more aggressive geo I requested, the cost for them to do this is 1000 + VAT so I have said no.
I will get it done by my preferred suspension place https://centergravity.co.uk/ or https://suspensionsecrets.co.uk/
Gassing Station | Ferrari V12 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff