Every day tips for living with a 599

[cake eater]

Hughesie said:

You didn't fancy a colour change to yellow - Yellow would look good on that car colour i think

I also agree that yellow would be great and matches the shields.

Unfortunately pro caliper won't repaint and it was an opportunity to save a little costs.

[cake eater]

leglessAlex said:

cake eater said:

leglessAlex said:

Tilletts are so incredibly comfortable, wildly at odds with their uncompromising look.

I'd love some for the A110, but the Mrs also drives it so I need to find a way of putting them on a height adjustable base.

I really like the A110 and think the standard Sabelt bucket really nice. The tillett B9 carbon are only 3.5 kg and perfectly suited to the A110 lightweight philosophy.

Making them height adjustable without a spanner is something Tillett need to look at.

The standard buckets are far more comfortable than the comfort seats, unfortunately mine has the comfort seats, they're good as they give the height adjustment, but the car was ex demo so I had to make do.

I think the standard rails do actually only have four mounting points, so it'll be interesting to see if the Tilletts can be grafted on. I'll file it under the long list of things I'd like to do lol.

I'm looking at 599s as a stablemate for the A110, but this thread scares me a little. Okay, £85-100k gets a car but I wonder if then it's prudent to put it through £30-50k of preemptive and remedial work, and that's a lot of dosh.

I think it very much depends on what you plan on doing with the 599. I also think you have to buy as late a year as possible with reasonable mileage.

If it works out right you'll enjoy the car with just routine annual maintenance. But expect a new clutch and brakes pretty quickly if you enjoy the car (20k for both). And if the F1 system is a problem expect 5-10k.

Engine is very reliable even with the weak piston rings. MAF, alternator and steering pumps are issues when the car is run hard and hot.

I was discussing with Lee the last few days about owners of old(er) Ferrari cars. If the car had an owner that's fastidious with the maintenance you are onto a winner. But as the value drops so does the owners propensity to spend on maintenance and they're more likely to pass on problems than keep and repair. Finding a car with that right owner is a problem as they're less likely to be selling.

Another worry is even the best pre purchase inspection won't see what's coming over the horizon. It's owning and driving that lets you know.

30k is a good number for a contingency fund

[cake eater]

Purso said:

You need very deep pockets and some serios patience to put up with what cake eater has!

I'm a fool and easily parted so pockets are empty

[cake eater]

More on the brakes today

GTO Cooling ducts fitted to the caliper


Cold air is taken from the edge of the under tray


Routing


Only problem is that the challenge wheels won't fit. So I'll have to sell them if anyone is interested.

Haven't test fitted the F12 rims so I'm a little nervous waiting for the results.

I would have thought that the duct would have run to the front bumper

This is the intake for the engine (upper half) lower half feeds air into the wheel well. If I change focus you can see the steering arm.





To properly cool the disc, the duct should run to the center of the disc



With the wheel turned out it looks like there's room but turn the wheel in and the duct would get pinched.

I also learnt that the larger front tyre causes problems, blocking air flow into the wheel well. Hopefully with this upgrade I'll get better heat management.

Lee also told me that another customer had recently installed new discs and pads on his 599 and on the test run he was astonished at how well the car stopped. Compared to mine, it was very grabby and wanted to put him through the window. Convinced me that there's always been something not 100% with mine.

[cake eater]

cake eater said:

Purso said:

You need very deep pockets and some serios patience to put up with what cake eater has!

I'm a fool and easily parted so pockets are empty

I had an opportunity today to have a good look around the chassis of the car. It made me a little sad as the more I looked the more I saw bits that need replacing or cleaning.

The wheel wells and suspension components need a good dry ice clean and coating in something like Dynax-UC
https://bilthamber.com/product/dynax-uc/

I can see the suspension arms getting furry, this one is particularly bad



The rear wheel arches have gone brittle with bits broken off (probably from stones) including some of mounting points. A quick check and it's 1k to replace just the rear the wheel arches.

Some things will just have to wait.

Edited by cake eater on Friday 20th February 20:01

[cake eater]

Inspired by 928 GTS I decided to spend a little time googling "Ferrari torque tube repair" while eating lunch in a services.

This was a top post
https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/456gta-t...

And this also on the first page of results
https://www.fhe.it.com/stories/03/ferrari-torque-t...

As 928 GTS said, anything with bearings will need repairing/ replacing at some point. And you're never the first person. The 456 owner went so far as to source and manufacture a set for himself. Seems a well known problem to 456 owners.

And obviously any company that does what I need isn't in the UK around the corner from MDL

Changed the search to "torque tube rebuild uk" and lots of results for Porches. In fact all the first page of results apart from one were for Porsches and that result was for Aston Martin
https://www.astonstore.co.uk/product-category/comp...

I guess parts need to get rarer before there's a market for it

[cake eater]

Cheburator mk2 said:

Thom said:

As a 944 turbo owner I am familiar with TT bearing issues but can say that the bearings on the Ferrari, at least on my 550, are far beefier than the rubbish units originally used by Porsche - I considered replacing them as I had the TT out when replacing the clutch on my 550 at 60k miles and was nicely surprised that the bearings were wtill remarkably fresh, so I did not replace them.

Edited by Thom on Sunday 22 February 14:39

To be fair to Porsche - the 924/44/68 and 928 were some of the first cars to have torque tubes fitted. Ferrari benefitted from another 30yrs of experience when they developed the 456/550/575 etc. You are comparing an entry level VW/Porsche sports car with a Ferrari range topper... Having had experience with both, overall, I would say that quality wise, my 928 GTS 5spd is head and shoulders above any contemporary Ferrari...

When I looked at the link 928 GTS sent I could see how different the TT design was. Ferrari has a much larger outer housing and bearings as you mentioned. And it's really heavy. Maybe they expected more deflection/ oscillation? Or maybe they're just designed to last longer?

When I was at David Moore Engineering, the 812 crankcase was very poorly cast. Sometimes you wonder where the accounts choose to save money

[cake eater]

cake eater said:

More on the brakes today

Only problem is that the challenge wheels won't fit. So I'll have to sell them if anyone is interested.

Haven't test fitted the F12 rims so I'm a little nervous waiting for the results.

Good news, F12 rims fit

[cake eater]

More on the gearbox, or rather not.

Rebuild of the gearbox is delayed by the reverse gear synchro. Ferrari state that the part will be be available after week 36

Maserati are supposed to have in stock but don't want to sell the part as it's not going to be used in a Maserati. There's a concern over liability or something. It's very frustrating. Especially as during one dealer service, they openly admitted to using a Maserati part, told me it was exactly the same, though that was an oil filter.

Also checked availability of the rear wheel arches. Left side gravel guard is no longer available. Had a search on eBay and contacted a few specialist breakers but so far no availablity

I really don't want this car on the ramp for a year and I'm sure MDL don't either.

[cake eater]

Thom said:

Sorry cake, I don't mean to derail your excellent thread. Good luck with your rebuild.

Edited by Thom on Monday 23 February 15:43

Not derailed in any way

I do like the Porsche comparison. Porsche has the reputation of deep engineering quality, though my boss with a 991.2 GTS would beg to differ as he's on his second warranty replacement for turbos. And don't mention the coil packs which seize in and are an engine out job, to drill out the retaining screw.

In general I don't hear people complain about Porsche, apart from my boss, seems much more common to hear people complain about Ferrari quality.

I think the old adage of you bought a Ferrari for the engine and got the rest free is old and out of date.

Both (or is that all?) companies suffer from quality issues, because accountants make engineering and operating decisions as they have a business to run and are driven by a profit motive.

3k vs 300k would also explain why there's a larger market for rebuilding in Porsche world and not Ferrari.

[cake eater]

Cheburator mk2 said:

leglessAlex said:

That's interesting about Maserati, can someone not just lie, give the vin of their Maser and get the part for you? Or are they also insisting on some sort of proof it's going into one?

That's such a pain, the solution being right there and not being able to get to it.

Cake - if you need a VIN number for a Maserati with a similar box, which uses the same reverse gear synchro - happy to oblige - just DM me. Dare I suggest your guys deal with Eurospares direct rather than a main dealer...

Let me contact Lee at MDL and get back to you. He's been able to pass on a small discount from the dealer.

I called Eurospares a while back for some Novitec parts and was suitably horrified by the price so decided against it.

I found a place in Spain that were almost half what Eurospares quoted, so even with duty a more reasonable price
https://www.royalbodykits.com/pages/ferrari-f599-2...

So, since then ....

[cake eater]

cake eater said:

cake eater said:

More on the brakes today

Only problem is that the challenge wheels won't fit. So I'll have to sell them if anyone is interested.

Haven't test fitted the F12 rims so I'm a little nervous waiting for the results.

Good news, F12 rims fit

It's a close fit but they freely

[cake eater]

Hughesie said:

Ahh - i see now the black/grey box

on top of the callipers feeds it in - ignore me !

[cake eater]

leglessAlex said:

Just as well you didn't get the calipers painted, that's going to make it marginally less painful when a stiny stone gets between the brake and wheel

That looks fab. Nothing more purposeful than a brake setup that totally fills the wheel!

Stones

[cake eater]

ANOpax said:

cake eater said:

cake eater said:

cake eater said:

More on the brakes today

Only problem is that the challenge wheels won't fit. So I'll have to sell them if anyone is interested.

Haven't test fitted the F12 rims so I'm a little nervous waiting for the results.

Good news, F12 rims fit

It's a close fit but they freely

Are you running spacers on those F12 wheels? The offsets are 5-8mm deeper than stock 599 wheels (on wider rims) or 8-10mm deeper than GTO on same width rims.

Given that you're going all GTO on the car and the F12 rims are the same widh as GTO rims, are you also upsizing to GTO tyre sizes as well?

Hi ANOpax,

Good questions.

For the F12 rims I use the Titanium bolts, so no spacers. For reference, with the challenge rims I ran 20mm spacers all around and 20mm longer bolts.

For tyres on the F12 rims I run MPS cup2 in 285 section front and 325 rear (standard GTO size is 315) it's difficult getting matched tyres in the exact GTO sizes.

Fronts


Rears


From subjective experience, the BMW * marked 285 (actually designed as a rear) on the front goes well with the unmarked 325 rear.

Mercedes AMG marked 285 MO1 and 325 MO or unmarked rear go well together

I would like to change to pirelli trofero RS but my preferred sizes aren't available unless I change sizes and rims. However I do think it would be overall a better tyre package if I changed.



Nakang CR-S would also be a good option in 285/325 and it has very good reviews but I have been told that they're very subjective to set up so I'm wary.
https://www.nankang.eu/index.php?id_category=73&am...

[cake eater]

I could run cup 2r in the correct GTO sizes (and they would be Ferrari K marked) but I want something I'm not too nervous to drive in the rain. Cup 2 have proven to be surprisingly capable in the cold and wet when new.

[cake eater]

Tyres are such an interesting subject to get nerdy over.

For performance trackday work I do like the Michelin Cup tyre but now it's getting old and I think other brands have gone one better

https://youtu.be/8eyy3kK8tcg?si=sRenhLAE3TiOmxic

This guy also has a video comparing Cup2 N (Porsche marked) Vs CR-S

Having said all that legless, I still choose Cup2, I guess there's comfort in what you know. And I know I have to be very gentle with throttle and steering input in the cold and wet.

Hughesie, I do rate the MPS4s but I think it's also an old tyre that's been superceded now. For touring, especially considering concern for wet performance I think I'd choose conti

Conti sport contact 7
https://www.continental-tires.com/products/car/tir...

https://www.tyrereviews.com/Tyre/Continental/Sport...

Pirelli pz5
https://www.pirelli.com/tyres/en-ww/car/catalogue/...

https://www.tyrereviews.com/Tyre/Pirelli/P-Zero-PZ...

Problem with the Pirelli is you need to go offset 20/21" to get the width.

So much good choice

PS I'm wary of using US tyre reviews as I was told many years ago that the tyres are different in construction / compound for US than EU (even if same brand and model). Probably BS but it's something that's suck in my mind.

[cake eater]

928 GTS said:

cake eater said:

Conti sport contact 7
https://www.continental-tires.com/products/car/tir...

https://www.tyrereviews.com/Tyre/Continental/Sport...

PS I'm wary of using US tyre reviews as I was told many years ago that the tyres are different in construction / compound for US than EU (even if same brand and model). Probably BS but it's something that's suck in my mind.

Some are different. So different that they sell totally different model Conti's over there. Continental ExtremeContact Sport 02 instead of Sport Contact 7. AFAIK difference is US version do not meet EU noise regulations.

While watching the tyre reviews YouTube channel I think he also mentioned that models not available in the EU are due to not meeting some EU labeling standard.

ANOpax also got me thinking, maybe my rim choice is not helping to get the best from the tyre.

A little googling brought up this article, which basically says go to the maximum recommended rim width for tyre size.
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/wheel-w...

It's also interesting as it states that the size of the contact patch doesn't change but the shape does, helping to keep the tyre in contact as the cornering load increases.

Which made me check recommend tyre/rim width and I'm at the minimum to optimum recommended rim size.

So obviously I need new rims which brought me to this article
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a70212910...

And then this website
https://www.braid-performance.com/custom-wheels-fo...

I did really like the litespeed options but wanted a European/ UK option.

Anyway, just daydreaming at the moment

[cake eater]

NGK210 said:

Just in case you re wondering if life with a 599 s younger sibling ie, an FF or F12 would be less challenging
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UZMoUrArFbc

Expensive donkey, very expensive donkeys

[cake eater]

ANOpax said:

Cake, you may already have seen it but this article is helpful for anyone considering a move away from stock wheel and tyre setups.
https://motoiq.com/how-to-properly-select-and-size...

Thank you