Running a Ferrari V12 isn’t that expensive
Discussion
Just in case any new readers of this thread think “hmmm, maybe it could be affordable to run a 30+ year old Ferrari V12 after all?”, just adding my tuppence worth. Er…no.
I’m sure there’ll be people saying they’ve had theirs for 5 years and no problems, but then there are people who’ve walked across fields in the rain in lightning storms and been fine too. Doesn’t mean it’s a safe thing to do.
I love the 456 and think it’s one of the most beautiful and underrated cars ever. However, there are 3 reasons why the 456 is unlikely ever to be cheap to run:
1). It was very expensive and considered complicated at the time it was made (too many innovations -start with the frameless windows that don’t align, ever)
2). Some wearable/perishable parts are no longer available and have to be hand fabricated
3). They have been cheap for so long that few have had the level of love and care spent on them needed to properly maintain a 30+ year old car.
If you’re still not sure, talk to a few Ferrari dealerships who take older models and ask if they’re happy to take in a 456. Most will tell you no, as they know they’ll have to risk a ton of money on them.
Beautiful car, not cheap. Sad but true…
HTH.
I’m sure there’ll be people saying they’ve had theirs for 5 years and no problems, but then there are people who’ve walked across fields in the rain in lightning storms and been fine too. Doesn’t mean it’s a safe thing to do.
I love the 456 and think it’s one of the most beautiful and underrated cars ever. However, there are 3 reasons why the 456 is unlikely ever to be cheap to run:
1). It was very expensive and considered complicated at the time it was made (too many innovations -start with the frameless windows that don’t align, ever)
2). Some wearable/perishable parts are no longer available and have to be hand fabricated
3). They have been cheap for so long that few have had the level of love and care spent on them needed to properly maintain a 30+ year old car.
If you’re still not sure, talk to a few Ferrari dealerships who take older models and ask if they’re happy to take in a 456. Most will tell you no, as they know they’ll have to risk a ton of money on them.
Beautiful car, not cheap. Sad but true…
HTH.
67Dino said:
Just in case any new readers of this thread think “hmmm, maybe it could be affordable to run a 30+ year old Ferrari V12 after all?”, just adding my tuppence worth. Er…no.
I’m sure there’ll be people saying they’ve had theirs for 5 years and no problems, but then there are people who’ve walked across fields in the rain in lightning storms and been fine too. Doesn’t mean it’s a safe thing to do.
I love the 456 and think it’s one of the most beautiful and underrated cars ever. However, there are 3 reasons why the 456 is unlikely ever to be cheap to run:
1). It was very expensive and considered complicated at the time it was made (too many innovations -start with the frameless windows that don’t align, ever)
2). Some wearable/perishable parts are no longer available and have to be hand fabricated
3). They have been cheap for so long that few have had the level of love and care spent on them needed to properly maintain a 30+ year old car.
If you’re still not sure, talk to a few Ferrari dealerships who take older models and ask if they’re happy to take in a 456. Most will tell you no, as they know they’ll have to risk a ton of money on them.
Beautiful car, not cheap. Sad but true…
In what way were the frameless windows innovative?I’m sure there’ll be people saying they’ve had theirs for 5 years and no problems, but then there are people who’ve walked across fields in the rain in lightning storms and been fine too. Doesn’t mean it’s a safe thing to do.
I love the 456 and think it’s one of the most beautiful and underrated cars ever. However, there are 3 reasons why the 456 is unlikely ever to be cheap to run:
1). It was very expensive and considered complicated at the time it was made (too many innovations -start with the frameless windows that don’t align, ever)
2). Some wearable/perishable parts are no longer available and have to be hand fabricated
3). They have been cheap for so long that few have had the level of love and care spent on them needed to properly maintain a 30+ year old car.
If you’re still not sure, talk to a few Ferrari dealerships who take older models and ask if they’re happy to take in a 456. Most will tell you no, as they know they’ll have to risk a ton of money on them.
Beautiful car, not cheap. Sad but true…
I wonder if some of the scare stories about the costs of running any older Ferrari is down to the cost of repairs from Main Dealers and some independents for relatively minor items?
A couple of years ago I sold a Mondial t coupe at auction. The car had done 68,000 miles and we had recently driven it out to Tuscany and back for a holiday/roadtrip.
The car was 30 years old with almost 70,000 miles, so consequently there was some patina on the car, but certainly nothing seriously wrong. For example, the spring on the filler cap was weak or stiff which meant that I sometimes had to tap on the bodywork over the latch mechanism in order to get the filler cap to latch fully closed. Maybe 50% of the time it works fine. I had the car serviced properly during my ownership, and it had a complete indi service history when I bought it.
I sold for £35k and I was happy.
The next owner took the car to a well known indi who then fixed all of the minor niggles that I had thought fairly acceptable on a 30 yr old car. They also did a service.
The new owner's bill was more than £13k. I am happy to service a car in accordance to the manufacturer's recommendations, but I would not have spent £13k on the rectification of many of the minor niggles (although I would have had the annual service done).
The Mondial t served me well. I did not scrimp on servicing but I would not have spent all of this extra on what I consider to me minor issues and patina. The buyer of my car had a different approach, which creates a very different value proposition.
A couple of years ago I sold a Mondial t coupe at auction. The car had done 68,000 miles and we had recently driven it out to Tuscany and back for a holiday/roadtrip.
The car was 30 years old with almost 70,000 miles, so consequently there was some patina on the car, but certainly nothing seriously wrong. For example, the spring on the filler cap was weak or stiff which meant that I sometimes had to tap on the bodywork over the latch mechanism in order to get the filler cap to latch fully closed. Maybe 50% of the time it works fine. I had the car serviced properly during my ownership, and it had a complete indi service history when I bought it.
I sold for £35k and I was happy.
The next owner took the car to a well known indi who then fixed all of the minor niggles that I had thought fairly acceptable on a 30 yr old car. They also did a service.
The new owner's bill was more than £13k. I am happy to service a car in accordance to the manufacturer's recommendations, but I would not have spent £13k on the rectification of many of the minor niggles (although I would have had the annual service done).
The Mondial t served me well. I did not scrimp on servicing but I would not have spent all of this extra on what I consider to me minor issues and patina. The buyer of my car had a different approach, which creates a very different value proposition.
I had a Maserati QP that had £18k of receipts in the last 3 years from a well known Ferrari MD.
I took the car to a Maserati specialist who did the same work at around 35% of the cost.
Same with my Aston, at around 50% of the cost.
Big old complicated cars are expensive to run, not exactly a shocker, stay well away from any MD and it becomes manageable and justifiable as a ‘hobby’.
The PH manual 456 (cat d) is on eBay at the moment for £30k, I’m hoping finds will allow post move for that to be added to the garage.
I took the car to a Maserati specialist who did the same work at around 35% of the cost.
Same with my Aston, at around 50% of the cost.
Big old complicated cars are expensive to run, not exactly a shocker, stay well away from any MD and it becomes manageable and justifiable as a ‘hobby’.
The PH manual 456 (cat d) is on eBay at the moment for £30k, I’m hoping finds will allow post move for that to be added to the garage.
67Dino said:
Just in case any new readers of this thread think “hmmm, maybe it could be affordable to run a 30+ year old Ferrari V12 after all?”, just adding my tuppence worth. Er…no.
I’m sure there’ll be people saying they’ve had theirs for 5 years and no problems, but then there are people who’ve walked across fields in the rain in lightning storms and been fine too. Doesn’t mean it’s a safe thing to do.
Beautiful car, not cheap. Sad but true…
Affordable means different things to different peopleI’m sure there’ll be people saying they’ve had theirs for 5 years and no problems, but then there are people who’ve walked across fields in the rain in lightning storms and been fine too. Doesn’t mean it’s a safe thing to do.
Beautiful car, not cheap. Sad but true…
Cheap certainly means different things to different people.
I'd be interested what your definitions are?
Also when it comes to old exotica, no one is naive to think it "safe" but the discussion was more about 'relative' to other options. A bit like swimming across a river with 5 crocodiles in it, or 20.
I'd regard £5k pa on maintenance cheap, and £10k pa on average over several years the very limit of what I'd view as value for money. But £10k buys a lot of eurospares and hours on the ramp when your specialist charges £65/h.
Affordable in its true sense is not relevant as I am lucky to have a good salary and no mortgage.
fflump said:
67Dino said:
Just in case any new readers of this thread think “hmmm, maybe it could be affordable to run a 30+ year old Ferrari V12 after all?”, just adding my tuppence worth. Er…no.
I’m sure there’ll be people saying they’ve had theirs for 5 years and no problems, but then there are people who’ve walked across fields in the rain in lightning storms and been fine too. Doesn’t mean it’s a safe thing to do.
Beautiful car, not cheap. Sad but true…
Affordable means different things to different peopleI’m sure there’ll be people saying they’ve had theirs for 5 years and no problems, but then there are people who’ve walked across fields in the rain in lightning storms and been fine too. Doesn’t mean it’s a safe thing to do.
Beautiful car, not cheap. Sad but true…
Cheap certainly means different things to different people.
I'd be interested what your definitions are?
Also when it comes to old exotica, no one is naive to think it "safe" but the discussion was more about 'relative' to other options. A bit like swimming across a river with 5 crocodiles in it, or 20.
I'd regard £5k pa on maintenance cheap, and £10k pa on average over several years the very limit of what I'd view as value for money. But £10k buys a lot of eurospares and hours on the ramp when your specialist charges £65/h.
Affordable in its true sense is not relevant as I am lucky to have a good salary and no mortgage.
When I hear people say “cheap” or “affordable” I worry they reckon it will be similar or less than maintaining an everyday family car. I think your estimate of £5-10k pa is plenty, and personally I budget on an average of £3-5k pa.
You’re right though, for a car as special as the 456, ie one that once cost £175k, buying it for £40-50k and maintaining it for that sort of money is, relatively speaking, cheap. Just not “cheap, cheap”.
fflump said:
Affordable means different things to different people
Cheap certainly means different things to different people.
I'd be interested what your definitions are?
Also when it comes to old exotica, no one is naive to think it "safe" but the discussion was more about 'relative' to other options. A bit like swimming across a river with 5 crocodiles in it, or 20.
I'd regard £5k pa on maintenance cheap, and £10k pa on average over several years the very limit of what I'd view as value for money. But £10k buys a lot of eurospares and hours on the ramp when your specialist charges £65/h.
Affordable in its true sense is not relevant as I am lucky to have a good salary and no mortgage.
Out of interest, where abouts in the country is the Ferrari specialist that charges £65/h? Infact who is it, sounds very good. Cheap certainly means different things to different people.
I'd be interested what your definitions are?
Also when it comes to old exotica, no one is naive to think it "safe" but the discussion was more about 'relative' to other options. A bit like swimming across a river with 5 crocodiles in it, or 20.
I'd regard £5k pa on maintenance cheap, and £10k pa on average over several years the very limit of what I'd view as value for money. But £10k buys a lot of eurospares and hours on the ramp when your specialist charges £65/h.
Affordable in its true sense is not relevant as I am lucky to have a good salary and no mortgage.
67Dino said:
Yes, fair point.
When I hear people say “cheap” or “affordable” I worry they reckon it will be similar or less than maintaining an everyday family car. I think your estimate of £5-10k pa is plenty, and personally I budget on an average of £3-5k pa.
You’re right though, for a car as special as the 456, ie one that once cost £175k, buying it for £40-50k and maintaining it for that sort of money is, relatively speaking, cheap. Just not “cheap, cheap”.
Yeah totally get what you mean. Something that you can get into for the price of a new S-Max is still a £175k car. I've run a Coupe Cambiocorsa which has an even more extreme purchase-price-to-maintenance ratio. Great car (transmission aside) especially considering it is possible to spend more on a 10 yr old Mondeo but its still a V8 with 20 year old electrics.When I hear people say “cheap” or “affordable” I worry they reckon it will be similar or less than maintaining an everyday family car. I think your estimate of £5-10k pa is plenty, and personally I budget on an average of £3-5k pa.
You’re right though, for a car as special as the 456, ie one that once cost £175k, buying it for £40-50k and maintaining it for that sort of money is, relatively speaking, cheap. Just not “cheap, cheap”.
If I could average £5k pa on a 456 I'd be well happy.
m4tti said:
Out of interest, where abouts in the country is the Ferrari specialist that charges £65/h? Infact who is it, sounds very good.
Scotland (naturally!) central belt. TBH £65 was pre-lockdown have not been there very recently. Plus you've got VAT.There are specialists that are well under £100+VAT /hr even in the southeast
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