Potential 599 purchase

[kbf1981]

willy wombat said:

For what it’s worth, I bought a 6 month old 599 in 2008. Didn’t put astronomical mileage on it (the name’s not Cake) but I did tour a few times to Italy, did quite a bit of mountain driving and a few track days. Car was serviced every year at a main dealer. Unsurprisingly I had to put new brake pads (not discs) on, new tyres and a pair of new front shocks, and that was it. Sold it last year to the main dealer who serviced it and thus knew the cat and got about £10k more than I expected. They’re not all money pits, and they are phenomenal cars.

Ref the costs - I think depreciation wise the 599 has bottomed, so I recon you'd probably trade in a 599 in a year for £85k say if it was beautiful as personally, I think inflation will move stuff up a bit. So even if you have a 5k bill here or there, that's still less than say if the F12 loses 25k in a year plus dealer margin - which is very possible, say the 812 goes to £220k, I could see a nice F12 at £150k, and now you're having to spend £170-200k for a nice F12 so there's £25k depreciation in there potentially.

I remember my 430 was pretty fragile and think the ball joints got replaced under warranty. Every Ferrari before the 458 was imo pretty fragile.

[kbf1981]

lambo666 said:

https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2009-ferrari-5...

I really wanted to bid on this, so much car for the money!

There's 6k buyers premium on that site isn't there, so effectively that sold for £83k private? If that same car was at a Ferrari dealer it'd probably be £100k I'd guess with warranty and margin. Does feel like they've bottomed.

[ANOpax]

kbf1981 said:

Ref the costs - I think depreciation wise the 599 has bottomed, so I recon you'd probably trade in a 599 in a year for £85k say if it was beautiful as personally, I think inflation will move stuff up a bit. So even if you have a 5k bill here or there, that's still less than say if the F12 loses 25k in a year plus dealer margin - which is very possible, say the 812 goes to £220k, I could see a nice F12 at £150k, and now you're having to spend £170-200k for a nice F12 so there's £25k depreciation in there potentially.

I remember my 430 was pretty fragile and think the ball joints got replaced under warranty. Every Ferrari before the 458 was imo pretty fragile.

I sense that you're trying to justify the 599 on financial grounds. Don't.
Buy it because you like it, not because the F12 might depreciate more. What if the F12 doesn't drop? How will you feel then?

I can paint a scenario where the 812's successor comes in at £325k before options so a decent car will set you back around £375k. That's going to make 812s look like very good value at the current £250-290k range given that they're the last N/A V12 coupe so I think you're dreaming if the 812 is going to decline much from here. I'll also add that there are 55% more 812s than F12s for sale at the moment and this is because the trade-ins for 812GTS deliveries are coming to market. Again, the 812 is in relative oversupply so, if anything, prices should firm from here, not drop.

As I mentioned in response to your post on the other thread (thanks for starting a new one BTW ) F12's hit rock bottom at £145k during the pandemic but recovered very quickly to the pre-pandemic levels of £150k and have marched on steadily since then. I really don't think we'll see F12's at £150k again for two reasons;

1) Inflation
2) F12's troughed because of all the 812 owners taking delivery which saw a glut of F12s hit the market. Pre-pandemic, there were twice as many F12s available as there are now and that situation is not going to change. The cars are getting too old for PCP deals these days so that also reduces the turnover of the fleet as a lot more of them are going to long term homes rather than short term finance deals.

And if I'm wrong about F12's at £150k then buy the nice Argento Silver one on Autotrader for £165k and limit your downside to £15k which is what you're looking at in your 599 maths.

Edited by ANOpax on Wednesday 15th June 23:13

[kbf1981]

Does anyone know if it's possible to turn the airbag off in an F12 so you can take an 8 year old in the front?

Or to fit a child seat in the passenger seat?

[Alexandra]

kbf1981 said:

Does anyone know if it's possible to turn the airbag off in an F12 so you can take an 8 year old in the front?

Or to fit a child seat in the passenger seat?

No, it cannot be deactivated.

[johnnyreggae]

F12: No airbag switch no isofix & no rear facing child seats according to manual

[kbf1981]

Ah, I think this is possible in a 599 - I think there's a deactivation switch on the passenger side.

[575MF1]

Neither response on airbag deactivation switch is quite fright. A switch is available as an option, not many cars have it. The switch is a simple on/off activated by a key. The Ferrari solution is mega-expensive but I think a second hand switch from an everyday car would do the trick, look almost identical, cost very little, and be straightforward to install.

[kbf1981]

575MF1 said:

Neither response on airbag deactivation switch is quite fright. A switch is available as an option, not many cars have it. The switch is a simple on/off activated by a key. The Ferrari solution is mega-expensive but I think a second hand switch from an everyday car would do the trick, look almost identical, cost very little, and be straightforward to install.

Thanks, if I couldn't at least pick up my son from school that'd be a killer.

Started looking at California T's and Lusso's now - not many FF's about. Even looked at a few Lamborghini's as they have isofix on the front seat but they just don't appeal as much. I had an LP550-2 Manual for a bit which was great but not as fun as my 430.

[Alexandra]

575MF1 said:

Neither response on airbag deactivation switch is quite fright. A switch is available as an option, not many cars have it. The switch is a simple on/off activated by a key. The Ferrari solution is mega-expensive but I think a second hand switch from an everyday car would do the trick, look almost identical, cost very little, and be straightforward to install.

Ferrari told me (when the F12 was first released) it wasn't possible - is that switch an aftermarket addition by the dealerships? I suppose it wouldn't be the first time a dealer had incorrect information...

I wonder if it effects the insurance.

[kbf1981]

I just measured my 8 year old - so... he's 135cm tall! Getting big now, I believe that this is the minimum hieght for sitting in the front of a car safely with an airbag, so I guess F12's are back on the radar?

[575MF1]

Ferrari part nos 67194600, 227551 and 153608 are what is required

[kbf1981]

So I drove the 80 miles to Graypaul Solihull today, however when I arrived the 599 I'd been looking at had already been sold that morning - it looked a beautiful car and tbh I think it was pretty good value. 2 owners, looked lovely.

https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/12780899

Whoever bought the car, congrats, it looks lovely!

I drove their other HGTE car which also looked beautiful, might make a bid on that but not sure the HGTE package is worth 20k to me - I'm not going to use the car on track, so being extra sharp doesn't add any value. I'm only looking for the experience, the sound, the way the car looks.

They had a few other nice looking cars in there - F8 looked really nice, that was my girlfriends favourite after the HGTE 599. She wasn't that into the F12, my favourite was probably the 812 they had which looked super imposing, but obviously they've got a ways to go depreciation wise. Sat in a GTC4 but it didn't feel as exotic (just to me), nor did the California's. Wasn't really into the Roma. The F8, 812's, 599's... they tbh probably appealed the most. No rush though as we've got other cars so I'll wait till the right deal comes up.

[ANOpax]

kbf1981 said:

So I drove the 80 miles to Graypaul Solihull today, however when I arrived the 599 I'd been looking at had already been sold that morning - it looked a beautiful car and tbh I think it was pretty good value. 2 owners, looked lovely.

https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/12780899

Whoever bought the car, congrats, it looks lovely!

I drove their other HGTE car which also looked beautiful, might make a bid on that but not sure the HGTE package is worth 20k to me - I'm not going to use the car on track, so being extra sharp doesn't add any value. I'm only looking for the experience, the sound, the way the car looks.

They had a few other nice looking cars in there - F8 looked really nice, that was my girlfriends favourite after the HGTE 599. She wasn't that into the F12, my favourite was probably the 812 they had which looked super imposing, but obviously they've got a ways to go depreciation wise. Sat in a GTC4 but it didn't feel as exotic (just to me), nor did the California's. Wasn't really into the Roma. The F8, 812's, 599's... they tbh probably appealed the most. No rush though as we've got other cars so I'll wait till the right deal comes up.

Thanks for letting us know the follow up. No wrong answers to any of the questions you raised earlier in the thread and your observations and choices show that we’re all different and all looking for different things. I will add a final thought though - it’s one thing to look at the cars or sit in them. It’s another thing entirely to drive them…

[kbf1981]

That is true, I guess the first bite is with the eyes and I want something that to me, makes me go "wow".

Presently watching F8 videos on YouTube so we'll see where I end up!

[f1ten]

Good debate on the pluses and minuses! I keep thinking would I swap my 430 for a 599 (only driven a 599 once back in 07). I remember being blown away by the acceleration and noise was incredible. However I like the way the 430 sits and corners and it is Slimer even on our A roads I get the feeling the 599 feels big. So like others have said that then brings you to discuss the FF.

Maybe we are in different times and there won't be a crash that sees all supercars with pennies and 4 seat Ferraris were undesirable.
Let's be honest though if you ask a kid what do they like more a supercar shape or the hatchback FF ... It's never going to be seen as pretty. Not sure how much that would annoy me staring back at the FF shape. I will quote a moan dealer technician, never own an FF outside of power warranty ... But sounds like I need to try one of them as again the engine is sublime and I like the interior.

[ANOpax]

f1ten said:

I will quote a moan (sic) dealer technician, never own an FF outside of power warranty ...

A couple of issues need to be addressed here in what seems to be an oft repeated but little understood bit of internet lore;

1 Ferrari’s New Power warranty is very poor value as there are so many exemptions and exclusions that it effectively only covers catastrophic failures of the engine or gearbox.

2 The only major difference between the FF and the F12 is the PTU. This is probably what the main dealer technician meant when suggesting that an FF shouldn’t be run without a warranty. Once upon a time, a PTU failure was an invitation to a £25k bill for a replacement PTU. Those days are gone as the PTU can be rebuilt and improved (to eliminate the inherent design weakness) by SS Autotech or Furlongers for a comparatively reasonable £8-10k. Their solution is so successful that Ferrari is allegedly developing a similar fix.

So, to summarise, running an FF without a warranty is a completely viable proposition and not much riskier than running any other Ferrari without a warranty.

Edited by ANOpax on Friday 15th July 02:04

[f1ten]

That is good to know and changes the game somewhat! If you remember early 458 getrag gearbox issues were a real problem which now too can be solved fa cheaper.

[lambo666]

Getting back on topic of 599's, I just bought this!!! -

https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2008-ferrari-5...

Car is mint with low miles, low owners with a fastidious owner.
Bonus was exhaust and slightly lowered, and a hifi upgrade.
I was not going to bid any higher, but just is so much car for the money I could not resist.
Only thing I would like it to have, would be the full carbon steering wheel with led's, I am not sure if this can be upgraded without a silly cost though.
About 82.5k all in for a v12 ferrari, great noise, fast enough and still lots of presence.

[Alexandra]

lambo666 said:

Getting back on topic of 599's, I just bought this!!! -

https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2008-ferrari-5...

Car is mint with low miles, low owners with a fastidious owner.
Bonus was exhaust and slightly lowered, and a hifi upgrade.
I was not going to bid any higher, but just is so much car for the money I could not resist.
Only thing I would like it to have, would be the full carbon steering wheel with led's, I am not sure if this can be upgraded without a silly cost though.
About 82.5k all in for a v12 ferrari, great noise, fast enough and still lots of presence.

That looks lovely, congratulations. Love the interior.