can old Ferrari’s be sorted

[Cerberaherts]

4rephill said:

+1

Reason's why it's better to drop the engine out to change the belt/belts on 348's and 355's:

1) It means the engine coolant has to be replaced every three years.
2) It gives the mechanic a chance to have a proper look all around the engine for possible issues.
3) It creates an ideal opportunity to repaint the cam covers and make them look new again.
4) It's the proper way to carry out the job - The way Ferrari/Pininfarina designed the car to get the job done!

And there are more important reasons.
5) you can’t torque the crank bolt with the engine in. Yes, they DO come loose. Yes it DOES make a mess!
6, it is impossible to check cam timing with the engine in place. Therefore many cars (not all) are running around with several degrees of cam timing to much or too little due to el-cheapo lock and swap belt changes. Side effects can range from a bit of a fluffy idle, overheating cats, random engine warning lights, melted cats, burned exhaust valves or just plain old lack of power.
7. Very difficult to check valve clearances with the engine in, very very difficult to adjust if the clearances are wrong (348 and mondial t, 355 is hydraulic)

Edited by Cerberaherts on Saturday 6th January 08:20

[4rephill]

Cerberaherts said:

4rephill said:

+1

Reason's why it's better to drop the engine out to change the belt/belts on 348's and 355's:

1) It means the engine coolant has to be replaced every three years.
2) It gives the mechanic a chance to have a proper look all around the engine for possible issues.
3) It creates an ideal opportunity to repaint the cam covers and make them look new again.
4) It's the proper way to carry out the job - The way Ferrari/Pininfarina designed the car to get the job done!

And there are more important reasons.
5) you can’t torque the crank bolt with the engine in. Yes, they DO come loose. Yes it DOES make a mess!
6, it is impossible to check cam timing with the engine in place. Therefore many cars (not all) are running around with several degrees of cam timing to much or too little due to el-cheapo lock and swap belt changes. Side effects can range from a bit of a fluffy idle, overheating cats, random engine warning lights, melted cats, burned exhaust valves or just plain old lack of power.
7. Very difficult to check valve clearances with the engine in, very very difficult to adjust if the clearances are wrong (348 and mondial t, 355 is hydraulic)

Edited by Cerberaherts on Saturday 6th January 08:20

For proper Ferrari specialists, dropping the engine out to change the cambelt/cambelts is pretty much an everyday, routine job, and Ferrari/Pininfarina could not have made the process any easier.

The cost of replacing the cambelt on a 348 at a reputable, proper Ferrari specialist (who drop the engine out), is @ £1700, which on the face of it sounds expensive.

However, the belt should be replaced every 3 years,which works out at £566 per year - That breaks down to @ £47.20 per month/ £10.90 per week or just £1.56 per day! Hardly bank breaking in reality.

It never ceases to amaze Me how people buy a Ferrari, bemoan how they cost more than a Ford Mondeo to run, and then try to cut corners wherever possible!

What I don't get is, the cost of changing the cambelt on a 348 is @ £1700

[Cerberaherts]

To be pedantic, the cars with aluminium, rather than plastic timing belt covers were supposed to have the belt replaced every two years rather than three as the tensioner bearing was more prone to failure due to being a smaller circumference. However, that was a total nonsense even by Ferrari standards and was dropped some years ago!

[LasseV]

So, any horror stories about Mondial? I read that older Mondials are easier to maintain than T-model, is it correct? What kind car Mondial is to own, ie maintenance point of view and using it as a long distance tourer? Reliability/MPG/Range etc.

Honestly i don't know why Mondials are little bit un-loved. They seems to be a perfect car: 80's look with mid-engine V8+manual and 2+2 seater...

[MitchT]

Mondial 8 was a money pit by all accounts.
Mondial QV was an improvement on the 8.
Mondial 3.2 is widely considered the best. Robust and simple like the 328 that it shares its engine with.
Mondial T is a little more sophisticated so inevitably costlier to run.

[LotusOmega375D]

I bought a Mondial T cabrio a few months ago as a weekend toy for the family to enjoy. I had already discounted the 8 and QV, preferring the cleaner styling and better performance of the later cars. The transverse engined 3.2 wins out on servicing cost, but loses out on tyre choice like the 8 and QV: the OEM Michelin TRXs are very expensive and not always available. This has led to many owners buying after-market alloys or fitting later Ferrari styles, which I personally don't like.

Having trawled the cars in the classifieds, I went and looked at a reasonably-priced and mileage T cabrio with a great service history at a well-known specialist. After checking it over and the test drive, I agreed to buy it. As an engine-out cambelt service was included in the price, I won't have that cost hanging over me for the next 3 years. This was the first of the regular mid-engined V8 Ferraris with a longitudinal engine (not inc. 288 GTO and F40), which is of course the lay-out still used to this day. The engine is also located significantly lower in the chassis than the transverse models, so the CoG is lower. It also has 3 setting adjustable dampers, although I haven't got round to fiddling with them yet.

I slapped a new yet of Goodyear tyres on at very reasonable cost and hope to keep it for a few years.

Driving impressions. I am surprised how physical everything is. The Mondial was always considered to be the soft car in the Ferrari range, but it still needs a firm push of the clutch pedal and a strong arm on the gearchange. The brakes are fine and acceleration is best described as brisk, rather than fast. I guess the claimed 300bhp is hampered by the extra weight, compared to a 348.

There is much more room in the back for the kids than I anticipated, certainly a lot more than my 2+2 Lotus Evora. As a cabrio, you can really only enjoy it properly with the roof down. I only put the hood up in the garage, to prevent it creasing. It's got power steering, ABS, air-conditioning, 3 point seat belts and electric windows all round, so it's not from the dark ages. Roof up though, you may as well be in an MGB, with all the wind noise!

[mario328]

LasseV said:

So, any horror stories about Mondial? I read that older Mondials are easier to maintain than T-model, is it correct? What kind car Mondial is to own, ie maintenance point of view and using it as a long distance tourer? Reliability/MPG/Range etc.

Honestly i don't know why Mondials are little bit un-loved. They seems to be a perfect car: 80's look with mid-engine V8+manual and 2+2 seater...

I sold my Mondial QV about 11 years ago and owned it for 14 years, I did about 22k miles in that period, sold it with 50k miles on the clock and it’s still on the road according to Askmid & MOT history.
To add to some of the comments made, overall I had a good experience of owing and driving this model over that time. It took me a good 8-12m in searching for the best example I could find, most I saw were very tired and neglected examples back in 1993. I bought mine after I’d had a professional inspection done and luckily nothing really major went wrong although it was a 10y old car when I got it.
Some of the things that come to mind:

Rust was my biggest headache, bottom of doors, battery compartment, rear sill area behind rear wheels and bottom of front wings.
Useless electric windows and electric roof a real pain to get these working.
Windscreen delamination in the corners.
Aircon control switches are both electrical and pneumatic assembly and can fail resulting in the airflow not being directed to various vents etc.
TRXs tyres are very expensive and not always available plus they were hopeless – I upgraded the wheels to a set of Mondial T wheels all-round with Goodyear Eagle F1’s. – much better but front ground clearance was worse.
The photo in my profile shows the later wheels fitted.
Engine was nice had a great sound after I’d fitted a stainless steel sports exhaust.
Engine was not so nice in the fuel & oil consumption department. 17mpg was about a realistic average but it’s a heavyish car and quite low geared.
Classic open gate gearbox was good once warmed up, clutch lasted well after I changed it soon after acquiring the car.
Easy to work on brakes, oil changes, coolant, plugs etc.
Mondials have good space inside, you really can take 4 adults if the rear passengers are prepared to sit there legs apart.
Good full width boot, good rear visibility.
They come with a standard battery isolator switch down under the front bonnet near the battery so you can leave it a while without fear of battery discharge.
Metal rear wheel arch liners rotted out so these were replaced with the fibre-glass ones from a Mondial T – fitted after a bit of fettling.
Mine had the half leather interior with cloth inserts a bit nicer over any distance as less sweaty compared to full leather.
Cheap car tax and insurance compared to cars of today.
Love to know how the car’s going now reg was RYP94Y

[vonders]

Judging by the responses later Mondials look a good bet, especially at current prices! Is it just the looks then that turn people off? They look fine to me.
I was thrown a curveball a few weeks ago, borrowed a California for the weekend. I thought I'd hate it but it was amazing. The engine, sound, gearbox blew me away and it had presence without being too big.

[bordseye]

jaisharma said:

They can be run fairly painlessly
My 328 over 18 years has required very little beyond servicing
308/328 are very simple and fairly robust

When I was last in the market I had a long chat with the Ferrari Center aboutt cost and reliability - whether to go for something older or maybe a 360 /430. Their recommendation was a 328 which is a simple reliable car without the complexity and electronics gremlins of the 360 and later models.

The argument is that the later cars are more reliable but also much more complex and in many areas are dealer only. The 328 can be serviced by your local garage being no more complex that a ford escort

[MitchT]

vonders said:

Is it just the looks then that turn people off? They look fine to me.

I love the looks of the Mondial - the crisp, clean, understated lines. They look fabulous in black or TDF blue. The pre-3.4T ones look a little nicer, I think, due to the side grilles being a little larger and having that angled rear edge that compliments the overall look of the car better.

[Behemoth]

vonders said:

Judging by the responses later Mondials look a good bet, especially at current prices! Is it just the looks then that turn people off? They look fine to me.

Yes, there's nothing else. Remember when 308/GT4s were derided and could be had at bargain basement prices? That was all about looks, too.

[hyphen]

mario328 said:

Love to know how the car’s going now reg was RYP94Y

Flying through mot's and being used regularly: https://www.check-mot.service.gov.uk

[mario328]

Yes, I noticed that a while ago. Last time I saw it, it had gone back to those original wheels which was a shame really.

[Zippee]

Bispal said:

I know a lot of people who have bough F355's in the past few months, they seem to be on something of a bounce back.

Tell me about it. I agreed a deal on this back in 2011 at 35k but decided at the time to stick with my TVR. One of my biggest ever motoring regrets (sorry about pic quality)