BIG Dilema

[Zadkiel]

ANOpax said:

In order of rarity....

F355 Fiorano
360 CS
FF
308 GTS

So in theory you should get rid of the 308. But I appreciate the sentimental value of the 308. If you really can't part with it, then get rid of the CS as you don't have as much history with that car as the others and you could always buy another as sufficient numbers were produced.

I have recently had a similar decision to make and swapped a 355 which had sentimental value for a 4 seater in which the whole family can travel.

So if it were me, I'd probably swap the CS for an FF and concentrate on creating memories with a car which involves the family too.

That says it far better than I was going to so I agree with above. I understand your logic behind wanting a Ferrari for the whole family and to me it looks like the CS is the one to go.

[355fiorano]

Zadkiel said:

ANOpax said:

In order of rarity....

F355 Fiorano
360 CS
FF
308 GTS

So in theory you should get rid of the 308. But I appreciate the sentimental value of the 308. If you really can't part with it, then get rid of the CS as you don't have as much history with that car as the others and you could always buy another as sufficient numbers were produced.

I have recently had a similar decision to make and swapped a 355 which had sentimental value for a 4 seater in which the whole family can travel.

So if it were me, I'd probably swap the CS for an FF and concentrate on creating memories with a car which involves the family too.

That says it far better than I was going to so I agree with above. I understand your logic behind wanting a Ferrari for the whole family and to me it looks like the CS is the one to go.

I am not sure about the rarity comment. Rarity implies price appreciation but the 355 Fiorano is not as well known/appreciated/valued as a CS. It was an option only in the last year of production (around £8k I think) that was not taken up by the vast majority of buyers and was a half way (or maybe a bit less than half way) house between a challenge spec car and the standard. As the fiorano parts were readily available (i.e the Challenge ECU, Thicker/Stiffer Roll bars, lower springs, quicker rack, wider track, cross drilled disks, lower springs and a couple of other bits) and when the cars were at £30k-£50k, many independents offered to put some or all these on standard cars as it was affordable. Now of course that the prices have gone up and there are very few parts left its not economical but there must be quite a few cars that have similar features. For a CS however, the conversion from a standard 360 is a lot deeper and goes much beyond trim and ECU but titanium engine bits etc. It is also much more recognised as a landmark car and in my estimation, in terms of rarity and future value I think we will see the day when they will go to levels where the F40 is now (and I hope that is not soon so I can enjoy it before I am too scared to take it out for a drive). I cannot see any version of the 355 coming close.
From a driving perspective, the CS and the 355 are soooo different but given the choice between the two keys right now I would take the CS .. maybe because I've driven the 355 much more. On the other hand I cannot have 2 of the 3 cars with paddle shifts. My heal-and-toe skills will dissapear and admittedly the 355 is sweeter to heal-and-toe vs the 308 ... but the 308 has so much more feel ...
Honestly I can go on for ever ... and never make up my mind.

I will go for a test drive of an FF so i have a better understanding but I really think I will most likely keep what I have and wait ... unless the FF blows me away and then ???

[ANOpax]

Few people test an FF without being blown away.

If you don't value the rarity of the 355 Fiorano then that's the one to drop. But the market is fickle and desirability changes. Look at the 308 vetroresina. Now highly desired among 308 variants when 10 years ago they were considered unremarkable. Same thing with Dinos 20 years ago: 'not a real Ferrari' people said. What is hot today (the CS) may not be hot tomorrow. My personal opinion is that, in the event of a correction, the CS is likely to suffer the most of your three as it is the one with the most talked up value. The FF is at the bottom of its depreciation curve and despite being a 4 seater may hold future classic status (along with the F12) as the last of the Pininfarina designed NA V12s.

If value is not of concern then the simple solution is to test the FF, decide where it fits in your rank of most appreciated car and dispose of the one at the bottom of the heap.

[355fiorano]

ANOpax said:

Few people test an FF without being blown away.

I wouldn't take it as a given. I drove the lusso and it was not for me. Same with the 612 and even the 488. I would not swap one if my cars for those so the jury is out on the FF...

[ANOpax]

Well, if you didn't like the Lusso then the chances are that you'll be one of the few who isn't blown away by the FF. I haven't driven the Lusso but by all accounts, it's a softer, more GT-like evolution of the FF.

It seems that your sensory preference lies with the older cars - have you considered a 456?

[MDL111]

355fiorano said:

Zadkiel said:

ANOpax said:

In order of rarity....

F355 Fiorano
360 CS
FF
308 GTS

So in theory you should get rid of the 308. But I appreciate the sentimental value of the 308. If you really can't part with it, then get rid of the CS as you don't have as much history with that car as the others and you could always buy another as sufficient numbers were produced.

I have recently had a similar decision to make and swapped a 355 which had sentimental value for a 4 seater in which the whole family can travel.

So if it were me, I'd probably swap the CS for an FF and concentrate on creating memories with a car which involves the family too.

That says it far better than I was going to so I agree with above. I understand your logic behind wanting a Ferrari for the whole family and to me it looks like the CS is the one to go.

I am not sure about the rarity comment. Rarity implies price appreciation but the 355 Fiorano is not as well known/appreciated/valued as a CS. It was an option only in the last year of production (around £8k I think) that was not taken up by the vast majority of buyers and was a half way (or maybe a bit less than half way) house between a challenge spec car and the standard. As the fiorano parts were readily available (i.e the Challenge ECU, Thicker/Stiffer Roll bars, lower springs, quicker rack, wider track, cross drilled disks, lower springs and a couple of other bits) and when the cars were at £30k-£50k, many independents offered to put some or all these on standard cars as it was affordable. Now of course that the prices have gone up and there are very few parts left its not economical but there must be quite a few cars that have similar features. For a CS however, the conversion from a standard 360 is a lot deeper and goes much beyond trim and ECU but titanium engine bits etc. It is also much more recognised as a landmark car and in my estimation, in terms of rarity and future value I think we will see the day when they will go to levels where the F40 is now (and I hope that is not soon so I can enjoy it before I am too scared to take it out for a drive). I cannot see any version of the 355 coming close.
From a driving perspective, the CS and the 355 are soooo different but given the choice between the two keys right now I would take the CS .. maybe because I've driven the 355 much more. On the other hand I cannot have 2 of the 3 cars with paddle shifts. My heal-and-toe skills will dissapear and admittedly the 355 is sweeter to heal-and-toe vs the 308 ... but the 308 has so much more feel ...
Honestly I can go on for ever ... and never make up my mind.

I will go for a test drive of an FF so i have a better understanding but I really think I will most likely keep what I have and wait ... unless the FF blows me away and then ???

I am not sure I would worry about future value too much - the CS is currently very far from F40 values and we might well have already seen the top of the current up cycle in 2016 with prices having stagnated/retracted since then (cars in general, not the CS in particular). Currently I see the likelihood higher that an F40 will be 400k-500k again than that a CS will be a million (both not in our immediate future). In any case I think the high 6-digit CS - if ever - will happen in the following upcycle or the one after that, so it might well take 20 years until then - which is way too long a time period to really factor into today’s decision making imo

[Nano2nd]

i'd decide which you prefer on track the 355 or 360, and sell the other one and get the FF, IMO making memories is key rather than having a bunch of garage queens you can't use... my 430 has gone for the same reason, with 3 in the family (hope to be 4) it just didn't get used, i'm either gonna buy a cheaper 2 seater for hooning and track days and an all round 4 seater that i can still got to SS in etc or just the default 4 seater(with small kids) option 911

[WCZ]

MDL111 said:

I am not sure I would worry about future value too much - the CS is currently very far from F40 values and we might well have already seen the top of the current up cycle in 2016 with prices having stagnated/retracted since then (cars in general, not the CS in particular). Currently I see the likelihood higher that an F40 will be 400k-500k again than that a CS will be a million (both not in our immediate future). In any case I think the high 6-digit CS - if ever - will happen in the following upcycle or the one after that, so it might well take 20 years until then - which is way too long a time period to really factor into today’s decision making imo

there's absolutely no way a CS will be £1m and an F40 will drop to £500k

[355fiorano]

MDL111 said:

I am not sure I would worry about future value too much - the CS is currently very far from F40 values and we might well have already seen the top of the current up cycle in 2016 with prices having stagnated/retracted since then (cars in general, not the CS in particular). Currently I see the likelihood higher that an F40 will be 400k-500k again than that a CS will be a million (both not in our immediate future). In any case I think the high 6-digit CS - if ever - will happen in the following upcycle or the one after that, so it might well take 20 years until then - which is way too long a time period to really factor into today’s decision making imo

I sure hope it takes a long time so I can enjoy it for as long as I keep it... About 12 years ago however, I was bidding on a 288GTO that was up for sale at £170k (with cash + the 355) but we didn't agree on the numbers so deal was not done.

Edited by 355fiorano on Thursday 25th January 14:43

[MDL111]

WCZ said:

MDL111 said:

I am not sure I would worry about future value too much - the CS is currently very far from F40 values and we might well have already seen the top of the current up cycle in 2016 with prices having stagnated/retracted since then (cars in general, not the CS in particular). Currently I see the likelihood higher that an F40 will be 400k-500k again than that a CS will be a million (both not in our immediate future). In any case I think the high 6-digit CS - if ever - will happen in the following upcycle or the one after that, so it might well take 20 years until then - which is way too long a time period to really factor into today’s decision making imo

there's absolutely no way a CS will be £1m and an F40 will drop to £500k

Well, you could have bought 2 F40s for 500k less than a decade ago and I believe at some point around 2004 or 2005 you could have bought 3 of them for 500k ..... likely it may not be, but possible definitely

[MDL111]

355fiorano said:

MDL111 said:

I am not sure I would worry about future value too much - the CS is currently very far from F40 values and we might well have already seen the top of the current up cycle in 2016 with prices having stagnated/retracted since then (cars in general, not the CS in particular). Currently I see the likelihood higher that an F40 will be 400k-500k again than that a CS will be a million (both not in our immediate future). In any case I think the high 6-digit CS - if ever - will happen in the following upcycle or the one after that, so it might well take 20 years until then - which is way too long a time period to really factor into today’s decision making imo

I sure hope it takes a long time so I can enjoy it for as long as I keep it... About 12 years ago however, I was bidding on a 288GTO that was up for sale at £170k (with cash + the 355) but we didn't agree on the numbers so deal was not done.

Edited by 355fiorano on Thursday 25th January 14:43

355 is the prettier and better sounding car anyway .... just don’t think about the value. That would have been nice though - one 288 GTO would nowadays pay for most of the cars I want put together

[MKnight702]

You are missing several much cheaper solutions.

1) Teach the wife to drive, then you can take 2 cars to the show

2) Fit a tow bar to the RR, then trailer the Ferrari of the day to the show

3) Only take one person per show on a rota

[355fiorano]

MKnight702 said:

You are missing several much cheaper solutions.

1) Teach the wife to drive, then you can take 2 cars to the show

2) Fit a tow bar to the RR, then trailer the Ferrari of the day to the show

3) Only take one person per show on a rota

The first option is actually a good point but I never let anyone drive my cars so I will have a hard time doing that, especially when she just jets her license and is on P plates! I have thought many times about a trailer but being in central London I don't know where to put it and don't fancy paying for yet another garage space to keep it. It also kills the fun about driving there and back and day events like Goodwood breakfast club/Salon Prive etc its not a solution. i have mainly thought about it for track days though. Wife/kid rotation is not likely to go down very well with either of them!

On the funny side of how to read the options you suggest:
1) Get your wife to crash one so then it leaves a space for the FF (and in that case its pot luck which one goes)
2) Substitute actually driving the cars with towing the cars and the family round
3) Divorce

[WCZ]

MDL111 said:

Well, you could have bought 2 F40s for 500k less than a decade ago and I believe at some point around 2004 or 2005 you could have bought 3 of them for 500k ..... likely it may not be, but possible definitely

yes but we're talking about the CS being valued at double of an F40. there's just no logic in that imo (unless for some reason F40's became banned from the road for emissions or something similar)

[MDL111]

WCZ said:

MDL111 said:

Well, you could have bought 2 F40s for 500k less than a decade ago and I believe at some point around 2004 or 2005 you could have bought 3 of them for 500k ..... likely it may not be, but possible definitely

yes but we're talking about the CS being valued at double of an F40. there's just no logic in that imo (unless for some reason F40's became banned from the road for emissions or something similar)

Ah now I get - we have a misunderstanding there - I meant imo it is more likely that an F40 will be half a million than that a CS will be a million. But not at the same time - if an F40 is 500k then a CS imo will be at best a 150-200k (or possibly even back down to the high 5 digits) car at the same time and if a CS is a million than a 40 is likely double that minimum at that time

[geopetrolhead]

First world problems eh 😂. Wish I had that dilemma!

Firstly I never knew they even did a manual Fiorano so that is Gold dust and a keeper

Secondly the 360 CS is an unbelievably good car and sounds even better than 355, and that’s coming from a 355 owner!

Thirdly, the 308 GTS is stunning and sounds like you have emotional attachment as it was your first love.

And lastly I would say keep them all, get a 456 GT as stated below, they are great value, about 3k made and has 4 seats! If that’s over your budget get a sporty saloon like an Audi RS6.

355fiorano said:

I've had a kid recently which is absolutely fantastic BUT that poses a big problem with the Ferrari situation ... I'm having (bad) thoughts about getting an FF and if I do, one of my other ferraris will have to go. Having 4 is not a viable option.

The problem is I am very attached to each one for its own reasons and being of a manual/no nannies mindset, I know I'm not going to love the FF as much as any of the ones I have. But if I want to do anything involving my current cars, like hooning around or participating in supercar events over the weekends etc I need a 4 seater as I cant really go on my own and leave the family behind.

My current cars+sentiments:

308 GTS - My first Ferrari, had it for 20yrs + . This I could never sell as its like family now and I love that its a targa, has a sweet engine with low down torque that revs beautifully and progressively to 8k RPM and one of the most beautiful shapes EVER
355 GTB Fiorano - Had it 15yrs. Love it to bits. One of I think 4 manual factory spec RHD fiorano cars (and of a total of only 18 RHD fiorano factory spec cars in total) with every extra. Its just so useable, beautiful but fantastically fast and balanced when you push it. Also drop dead gorgeous and I would never be able to find something like this for sale again in all likelihood
CS - Had it 2 yrs and I cannot even consider letting it go as I've only done 4k km. OK its F1 but apart from that its the best car driving experience outside a race car you can have. I also think that unfortunately these are going to get so expensive in the next few years, I would never be able to afford my way back in.

So what r the choices:
1) Keep them and forget the FF or using my current cars much for a long while
2) Sell one but which one could I part with ?

I'd be interested to hear opinions ...

[geopetrolhead]

Wow I bet you are kicking yourself for not going through with that deal, 😮 omg

355fiorano said:

I sure hope it takes a long time so I can enjoy it for as long as I keep it... About 12 years ago however, I was bidding on a 288GTO that was up for sale at £170k (with cash + the 355) but we didn't agree on the numbers so deal was not done.

Edited by 355fiorano on Thursday 25th January 14:43

[355fiorano]

I must say as much as I tried to like the 456 I have never liked its looks. Having said that, it certainly did not give me the convulsions the FF did when it launched but somehow the FF has grown on me while the 456 never did. I have had a few drives in 456s and also felt driving wise it was not for me.

As for the 288 I do regret it in that the 288 was my pin up car and the ultimate goal was to own one. It does now look highly unlikely. At the current prices however i would have not had a choice but to sell it, as financially it is so far out of my league I could never enjoy thrashing it or even maintaining it properly as the spare parts must be extortionate.

[geopetrolhead]

Can’t believe people are saying get rid of 360 CS or swap for FF, no bloody way, it’s an amazing car and a keeper, if anything I would sell the 308, but I can salo understand your attachment to that car.

Sometimes I think if I got rid of the 355 Spider I would get more enjoyment and time driving a more modern Ferrari but then I think that the car would just not feel so special and that’s why it really gives you that buzz on the odd ocassion I do drive her.

[MKnight702]

355fiorano said:

I have thought many times about a trailer but being in central London I don't know where to put it and don't fancy paying for yet another garage space to keep it. It also kills the fun about driving there and back and day events like Goodwood breakfast club/Salon Prive etc its not a solution. i have mainly thought about it for track days though.

How about storing one car on the trailer, then its a twofer. (Provided the parking space is big enough to fit a trailer)