Why so little on the Dino
Discussion
browngt3 said:
I would imagine most restored Dinos are a lot better than when they left the factory, with fixes for a few of the weak points too. Obviously most are part of collections nowadays so sadly never see enough use to reveal any continuing reliability issues
They haven't really got any weak points as such. A lot of tired examples over the years probably blunted some peoples impressions of them but a properly sorted example is a lot of fun to drive at non license threatening speeds. Andrew Frankel drove my car not long after I had finished the restoration for an article in the Official Ferrari Magazine. I'll let him describe the drive.....
Exceptional exceptions
The Dino 246 GT and 750 Monza prove that small can indeed be beautiful
WORDS ANDREW FRANKEL
Within the confines of what is legally allowed on the public road, it would be hard to think of two Ferraris more different in concept, design and execution than those you see here. One is a raw and difficult front-engined racing car, the other a sonorous and sweet handling mid-engined road car. What could they possibly have in common?
Only that, within the world of Ferrari, they are defined if not as outsiders, then certainly exceptions to prove the rule that, if nothing else, Ferraris are powered by engines with eight cylinders, or 12. These cars have neither. The Dino246 GT has six cylinders, the 750 Monza just four.
But both could hardly be more deserving of their places in the pantheon of Maranello’s finest. And there is something else their engines share, save their time-honoured twin cam, two valves per cylinder configurations. Both were originally conceived for racing - the Monzas by Aurelio Lampredi, the Dinos by Vittorio Jano - and can trace their roots back to engines that won the Formula One world title. To drive them together on the road is to see two cars arriving at that same magical spot reached only by the very best Ferraris, but from completely opposite directions.
I'll take the Dino first, because it provides the ideal warm-up for the Monza, as easy to drive as its stablemate is hard. Iain Stewart’s 246 GT is the perfect example, restored to exactly as new, including its remarkable paintwork and towelling seat inserts. Correctly, there are neither Ferrari badges nor any Prancing Horses to be found on its immaculate bodywork.
It may not have been called a Ferrari, but as you sit in its slim bucket seat, see the Veglia dials, the steel gear lever rising from its exposed gate and that leather bound wheel with is three alloy spokes, the Dino is as redolent of the brand as any of the era. Pump the throttle a couple of times then turn the key and, in an instant, the 2.4-litre V6 catches and starts singing its rich and unique tune, less sharp but more melodic than the V8s and closer in character to a V12.
The Cambridgeshire roads we are on suit the car so well you could almost believe it was developed in the English countryside, rather than the Maranello hills. By modern standards, it is not fast, but that scarcely matters. If ever there was a car that proved that it’s not how fast you go, but how you go fast, this is it. You notice first the soft and supremely comfortable suspension, next the extraordinary delicacy of the steering. Above all, the Dino is a precision instrument, a car for connoisseurs more interested in how beautiful a car feels than how quickly it can be made to go.
And then there is that engine. Even if its complex and fascinating song does not betray its racing roots, its addiction to revs certainly will. The paint on the dial says it will go to 7,700rpm and, while the newness of the engine in the green
Dino means we'll not be going quite that high today, I know from others I’ve driven that, even at that speed, it just wants to go further.
The other Ferrari is not like this. The sound of its 3.0-litre, four-cylinder engine is not pretty; you might even call it ugly. But the way it spits un-silenced anger and aggression from its single side exit exhaust perfectly suits the character of
the car. The 750 Monza celebrated its 60th birthday this year and this example is a legend of the breed, driven by Masten Gregory (known as “the Kansas City Flash”) at Le Mans in 1955.
The thinking behind its four-cylinder engine was to promote torque, create a compact engine that could be located well back in the chassis and combine it with a transaxle gearbox between the rear wheels whose weight would provide the traction required to cope with the monstrous potential of the engine. So, while a Testarossa with the same capacity but three times the number of cylinders works best between 6,000-8,000rpm, the Monza pulls hardest from less than half such speeds, but cannot produce quite the same power. It has around 265hp, compared to perhaps 300hp for a comparable V12. Coupled
With an ultra short wheelbase, it’s actually best suited to tight tracks like Monaco rather than wide-open circuits like Le Mans.
The gearbox pattern is the same as the Dino’s, but its action is utterly different. While the 246’s lever slides easily from slot to slot, the Monza has no synchromesh and requires you to change with speed, strength and precision: if you try to be gentle, it will spit your choice of gear back at you..
You have to treat the Monza like the racing car it is, even on the road. It hates being driven slowly and will cough, bang and misfire if you do. It is an entirely binary car, brilliant at being parked with the engine off or being driven as fast as it will go and nothing in between. I have been blessed with the privilege of racing this car for nearly 10 years and right on the limit is both frightening and rewarding in almost equal measure.
While in the Dino you are brothers brought together to share a mutual passion for the open road, the Monza challenges you to a duel: if you are to master it, you must fight with all the resources you can muster and earn its respect the hard way. Do that and it will thrill and inspire you like no road car ever could.
These are such different cars, separated as they are by age, configuration, discipline and execution. But together they prove that a Ferrari needs neither eight cylinders nor 12 to be a true Ferrari. What matters is the quality of those cylinders, far more than their quantity. For that is what provides the passion, that is what makes them Ferraris. And these two have as much of that as any I know.
Edited by is-uk on Sunday 16th August 12:15
is-uk said:
They haven't really got any weak points as such. A lot of tired examples over the years probably bluntedsome peoples' impressions of them but a properly sorted example is a lot of fun to drive at non license threatening speeds. Andrew Frankel drove my car not long after I had finished the restoration for an article in the Official Ferrari Magazine. I'll let him describe the drive.....
Exceptional exceptions
The Dino 246 GT and 750 Monza prove that small can indeed be beautiful
WORDS ANDREW FRANKEL
Within the confines of what is legally allowed on the public road, it would be hard to think of two Ferraris more different in concept, design and execution than those you see here. One is a raw and difficult front-engined racing car, the other a sonorous and sweet handling mid-engined road car. What could they possibly have in common?
Only that, within the world of Ferrari, they are defined if not as outsiders, then certainly exceptions to prove the rule that, if nothing else, Ferraris are powered by engines with eight cylinders, or 12. These cars have neither. The Dino246 GT has six cylinders, the 750 Monza just four.
But both could hardly be more deserving of their places in the pantheon of Maranello’s finest. And there is something else their engines share, save their time-honoured twin cam, two valves per cylinder configurations. Both were originally conceived for racing - the Monzas by Aurelio Lampredi, the Dinos by Vittorio Jano - and can trace their roots back to engines that won the Formula One world title. To drive them together on the road is to see two cars arriving at that same magical spot reached only by the very best Ferraris, but from completely opposite directions.
I'll take the Dino first, because it provides the ideal warm-up for the Monza, as easy to drive as its stablemate is hard. Iain Stewart’s 246 GT is the perfect example, restored to exactly as new, including its remarkable paintwork and towelling seat inserts. Correctly, there are neither Ferrari badges nor any Prancing Horses to be found on its immaculate bodywork.
It may not have been called a Ferrari, but as you sit in its slim bucket seat, see the Veglia dials, the steel gear lever rising from its exposed gate and that leather bound wheel with is three alloy spokes, the Dino is as redolent of the brand as any of the era. Pump the throttle a couple of times then turn the key and, in an instant, the 2.4-litre V6 catches and starts singing its rich and unique tune, less sharp but more melodic than the V8s and closer in character to a V12.
The Cambridgeshire roads we are on suit the car so well you could almost believe it was developed in the English countryside, rather than the Maranello hills. By modern standards, it is not fast, but that scarcely matters. If ever there was a car that proved that it’s not how fast you go, but how you go fast, this is it. You notice first the soft and supremely comfortable suspension, next the extraordinary delicacy of the steering. Above all, the Dino is a precision instrument, a car for connoisseurs more interested in how beautiful a car feels than how quickly it can be made to go.
And then there is that engine. Even if its complex and fascinating song does not betray its racing roots, its addiction to revs certainly will. The paint on the dial says it will go to 7,700rpm and, while the newness of the engine in the green
Dino means we'll not be going quite that high today, I know from others I’ve driven that, even at that speed, it just wants to go further.
The other Ferrari is not like this. The sound of its 3.0-litre, four-cylinder engine is not pretty; you might even call it ugly. But the way it spits un-silenced anger and aggression from its single side exit exhaust perfectly suits the character of
the car. The 750 Monza celebrated its 60th birthday this year and this example is a legend of the breed, driven by Masten Gregory (known as “the Kansas City Flash”) at Le Mans in 1955.
The thinking behind its four-cylinder engine was to promote torque, create a compact engine that could be located well back in the chassis and combine it with a transaxle gearbox between the rear wheels whose weight would provide the traction required to cope with the monstrous potential of the engine. So, while a Testarossa with the same capacity but three times the number of cylinders works best between 6,000-8,000rpm, the Monza pulls hardest from less than half such speeds, but cannot produce quite the same power. It has around 265hp, compared to perhaps 300hp for a comparable V12. Coupled
With an ultra short wheelbase, it’s actually best suited to tight tracks like Monaco rather than wide-open circuits like Le Mans.
The gearbox pattern is the same as the Dino’s, but its action is utterly different. While the 246’s lever slides easily from slot to slot, the Monza has no synchromesh and requires you to change with speed, strength and precision: if you try to be gentle, it will spit your choice of gear back at you..
You have to treat the Monza like the racing car it is, even on the road. It hates being driven slowly and will cough, bang and misfire if you do. It is an entirely binary car, brilliant at being parked with the engine off or being driven as fast as it will go and nothing in between. I have been blessed with the privilege of racing this car for nearly 10 years and right on the limit is both frightening and rewarding in almost equal measure.
While in the Dino you are brothers brought together to share a mutual passion for the open road, the Monza challenges you to a duel: if you are to master it, you must fight with all the resources you can muster and earn its respect the hard way. Do that and it will thrill and inspire you like no road car ever could.
These are such different cars, separated as they are by age, configuration, discipline and execution. But together they prove that a Ferrari needs neither eight cylinders nor 12 to be a true Ferrari. What matters is the quality of those cylinders, far more than their quantity. For that is what provides the passion, that is what makes them Ferraris. And these two have as much of that as any I know.
Thanks for that Iain, an excellent article, especially this comment :Exceptional exceptions
The Dino 246 GT and 750 Monza prove that small can indeed be beautiful
WORDS ANDREW FRANKEL
Within the confines of what is legally allowed on the public road, it would be hard to think of two Ferraris more different in concept, design and execution than those you see here. One is a raw and difficult front-engined racing car, the other a sonorous and sweet handling mid-engined road car. What could they possibly have in common?
Only that, within the world of Ferrari, they are defined if not as outsiders, then certainly exceptions to prove the rule that, if nothing else, Ferraris are powered by engines with eight cylinders, or 12. These cars have neither. The Dino246 GT has six cylinders, the 750 Monza just four.
But both could hardly be more deserving of their places in the pantheon of Maranello’s finest. And there is something else their engines share, save their time-honoured twin cam, two valves per cylinder configurations. Both were originally conceived for racing - the Monzas by Aurelio Lampredi, the Dinos by Vittorio Jano - and can trace their roots back to engines that won the Formula One world title. To drive them together on the road is to see two cars arriving at that same magical spot reached only by the very best Ferraris, but from completely opposite directions.
I'll take the Dino first, because it provides the ideal warm-up for the Monza, as easy to drive as its stablemate is hard. Iain Stewart’s 246 GT is the perfect example, restored to exactly as new, including its remarkable paintwork and towelling seat inserts. Correctly, there are neither Ferrari badges nor any Prancing Horses to be found on its immaculate bodywork.
It may not have been called a Ferrari, but as you sit in its slim bucket seat, see the Veglia dials, the steel gear lever rising from its exposed gate and that leather bound wheel with is three alloy spokes, the Dino is as redolent of the brand as any of the era. Pump the throttle a couple of times then turn the key and, in an instant, the 2.4-litre V6 catches and starts singing its rich and unique tune, less sharp but more melodic than the V8s and closer in character to a V12.
The Cambridgeshire roads we are on suit the car so well you could almost believe it was developed in the English countryside, rather than the Maranello hills. By modern standards, it is not fast, but that scarcely matters. If ever there was a car that proved that it’s not how fast you go, but how you go fast, this is it. You notice first the soft and supremely comfortable suspension, next the extraordinary delicacy of the steering. Above all, the Dino is a precision instrument, a car for connoisseurs more interested in how beautiful a car feels than how quickly it can be made to go.
And then there is that engine. Even if its complex and fascinating song does not betray its racing roots, its addiction to revs certainly will. The paint on the dial says it will go to 7,700rpm and, while the newness of the engine in the green
Dino means we'll not be going quite that high today, I know from others I’ve driven that, even at that speed, it just wants to go further.
The other Ferrari is not like this. The sound of its 3.0-litre, four-cylinder engine is not pretty; you might even call it ugly. But the way it spits un-silenced anger and aggression from its single side exit exhaust perfectly suits the character of
the car. The 750 Monza celebrated its 60th birthday this year and this example is a legend of the breed, driven by Masten Gregory (known as “the Kansas City Flash”) at Le Mans in 1955.
The thinking behind its four-cylinder engine was to promote torque, create a compact engine that could be located well back in the chassis and combine it with a transaxle gearbox between the rear wheels whose weight would provide the traction required to cope with the monstrous potential of the engine. So, while a Testarossa with the same capacity but three times the number of cylinders works best between 6,000-8,000rpm, the Monza pulls hardest from less than half such speeds, but cannot produce quite the same power. It has around 265hp, compared to perhaps 300hp for a comparable V12. Coupled
With an ultra short wheelbase, it’s actually best suited to tight tracks like Monaco rather than wide-open circuits like Le Mans.
The gearbox pattern is the same as the Dino’s, but its action is utterly different. While the 246’s lever slides easily from slot to slot, the Monza has no synchromesh and requires you to change with speed, strength and precision: if you try to be gentle, it will spit your choice of gear back at you..
You have to treat the Monza like the racing car it is, even on the road. It hates being driven slowly and will cough, bang and misfire if you do. It is an entirely binary car, brilliant at being parked with the engine off or being driven as fast as it will go and nothing in between. I have been blessed with the privilege of racing this car for nearly 10 years and right on the limit is both frightening and rewarding in almost equal measure.
While in the Dino you are brothers brought together to share a mutual passion for the open road, the Monza challenges you to a duel: if you are to master it, you must fight with all the resources you can muster and earn its respect the hard way. Do that and it will thrill and inspire you like no road car ever could.
These are such different cars, separated as they are by age, configuration, discipline and execution. But together they prove that a Ferrari needs neither eight cylinders nor 12 to be a true Ferrari. What matters is the quality of those cylinders, far more than their quantity. For that is what provides the passion, that is what makes them Ferraris. And these two have as much of that as any I know.
AF said:
If ever there was a car that proved that it’s not how fast you go, but how you go fast, this is it. You notice first the soft and supremely comfortable suspension, next the extraordinary delicacy of the steering. Above all, the Dino is a precision instrument, a car for connoisseurs more interested in how beautiful a car feels than how quickly it can be made to go.
Yes thanks also for posting. A nice article and AF captures the essence of what I would imagine a Dino is like to drive.
I took my 308 for a nice drive in the lovely Cornish sunshine today. Too many tourists, cyclists, runners and horses etc to go fast! But, to echo Frankel's observations, I merely sat back at a steady 40- 50 on a nice twisty B road and revelled in the Ferrari's tactility. I must be getting old!
I took my 308 for a nice drive in the lovely Cornish sunshine today. Too many tourists, cyclists, runners and horses etc to go fast! But, to echo Frankel's observations, I merely sat back at a steady 40- 50 on a nice twisty B road and revelled in the Ferrari's tactility. I must be getting old!
bish_345 said:
Hopefully you have kept the red cloth inserts (which I rather liked the look of as a change from the "usual" Dino interior) so the next owner can revert to original spec?
I have as I really liked them and they are an item that requires lots of skill from a trimmer to make as the cloth is effectively towelling and has to be both glued and stitched to the backing to create the ribs. It is very tricky to stop the glue coming through the towelling during this process.The colour is a problem for most people though so they had to go. An experienced trimmer can swap them over fairly easily so they can be put back in future. They are certainly a bonus to sit on in hot weather as they remain much cooler.
I'm not sure why the original owner stipulated red cloth centres but I have copies of the order from Maranello Concessionaires to the factory and they went to the trouble of cutting out a picture of the red cloth inserts from the brochure along with removing and attaching a Verde Germoglio paint swatch to the paperwork they sent to Ferrari to ensure there was no misunderstanding. The cloth centres were available in other colours such as grey and black which would have given a more subdued look. It was the early 70's though and wild colour combo's were very much in fashion.
Here is a better photo of the cloth seats. Quite a few restored cars have had them fitted over the past 5 or 6 years to take the cars back to original spec.
Edited by is-uk on Tuesday 25th August 08:12
is-uk said:
I took the car to the trimmer today and had the black leather seat inserts put in. It looked like a bag of Skittles with these two 911s flanking it.
Mine is the yellow skittle in that picture, love the colour of your dino.Edited by is-uk on Monday 24th August 18:00
i also had a dino in Rosso Bordeaux but unfortunately even after the best of the best worked on her it still always broke down so had to part our ways.
Sorry to hear that. Mine have been very reliable and never broken down. The mechanicals are very straightforward on them. I have a friend who has one of the rare original 246 GT chairs and flares in Rosso Bordeaux with the tan vinyl Daytona interior which is even rarer.
Your 911 looked great. I had a dabble with the restoration of '72 targa and that was enough to put me off though I realise I was unlucky and had a very bad example.
Your 911 looked great. I had a dabble with the restoration of '72 targa and that was enough to put me off though I realise I was unlucky and had a very bad example.
is-uk said:
I took the car to the trimmer today and had the black leather seat inserts put in. It looked like a bag of Skittles with these two 911s flanking it.
Just when i think it's safe to go back into the water you go and put another photo up of your gorgeous Verde Germoglio Dino , What you trying to do to me! My car was Rosso Bordeaux as well,never seen another one until today when Motheathound put a photo of his on .Edited by is-uk on Monday 24th August 18:00
It was owned by Rod Stewart's lead guitarist who took it with him to the USA to join Rod ,lucky he didn't converted it to l.h.d but did have to put those horrible side markers on to get it registered in California. Lucky for me when he returned to the UK he bought the car back with him, I bought it direct from him via a tip off from Maranello's ,They didn't want to get involved as it really needed a repaint due to the California sun but looked ok from 10 yards but not embarrassing to drive. quite enjoyed driving it like that as being O.C.D saved me cleaning it every time i took it out and could park it places that i wouldn't normally leave a mint one. More relaxed about it and felt i was more in control of the car rather it controlling me , if that makes any sense. Shame as the guy i sold it to repainted it red ,(how predictable ) and has been sat outside in Scotland for last 20 years or so.he won't sell it,i've asked him enough times and doesn't have the money to restore it .Would be nice if it could be bought as don't particularly like the original colour so would be first choice after seeing yours to paint it Verde Germoglio as originality wouldn't really matter in this case .
Edited by rat rod on Tuesday 25th August 16:52
rat rod said:
Just when i think it's safe to go back into the water you go and put another photo up of your gorgeous Verde Germoglio Dino , What you trying to do to me! ]
As you are a fan of the colour here a couple of pics from the magazine photoshoot that didn't make the final cut (credit to Matt Howell).
is-uk said:
rat rod said:
Just when i think it's safe to go back into the water you go and put another photo up of your gorgeous Verde Germoglio Dino , What you trying to do to me! ]
As you are a fan of the colour here a couple of pics from the magazine photoshoot that didn't make the final cut (credit to Matt Howell).
Edited by rat rod on Tuesday 25th August 21:04
motheatenhound said:
Mine is the yellow skittle in that picture, love the colour of your dino.
i also had a dino in Rosso Bordeaux but unfortunately even after the best of the best worked on her it still always broke down so had to part our ways.
Beautiful! Shame you couldn't get her to play balli also had a dino in Rosso Bordeaux but unfortunately even after the best of the best worked on her it still always broke down so had to part our ways.
is-uk said:
I have as I really liked them and they are an item that requires lots of skill from a trimmer to make as the cloth is effectively towelling and has to be both glued and stitched to the backing to create the ribs. It is very tricky to stop the glue coming through the towelling during this process.
The colour is a problem for most people though so they had to go. An experienced trimmer can swap them over fairly easily so they can be put back in future. They are certainly a bonus to sit on in hot weather as they remain much cooler.
I'm not sure why the original owner stipulated red cloth centres but I have copies of the order from Maranello Concessionaires to the factory and they went to the trouble of cutting out a picture of the red cloth inserts from the brochure along with removing and attaching a Verde Germoglio paint swatch to the paperwork they sent to Ferrari to ensure there was no misunderstanding. The cloth centres were available in other colours such as grey and black which would have given a more subdued look. It was the early 70's though and wild colour combo's were very much in fashion.
Here is a better photo of the cloth seats. Quite a few restored cars have had them fitted over the past 5 or 6 years to take the cars back to original spec.
Isn't it strange how these clashing colours seem to work on 70's cars. Love it and not sure I would have reverted to all black The colour is a problem for most people though so they had to go. An experienced trimmer can swap them over fairly easily so they can be put back in future. They are certainly a bonus to sit on in hot weather as they remain much cooler.
I'm not sure why the original owner stipulated red cloth centres but I have copies of the order from Maranello Concessionaires to the factory and they went to the trouble of cutting out a picture of the red cloth inserts from the brochure along with removing and attaching a Verde Germoglio paint swatch to the paperwork they sent to Ferrari to ensure there was no misunderstanding. The cloth centres were available in other colours such as grey and black which would have given a more subdued look. It was the early 70's though and wild colour combo's were very much in fashion.
Here is a better photo of the cloth seats. Quite a few restored cars have had them fitted over the past 5 or 6 years to take the cars back to original spec.
Edited by is-uk on Tuesday 25th August 08:12
Maybe it's all down to the Dinos beautiful lines where literally any colour works! bish_345 said:
Very nice indeed. I've always fancied a Dino since the days of watching The Persuaders (hence my previous ownership of a Bahama Yellow classic Aston Martin). Your DIno would pair rather well with my 70s Ghibli which is also in a rather vibrant Verde. Unfortunately I can't find any spare cash down the back of my sofa just at the moment....
Any photos of the Ghibli ?neutral 3 said:
bish_345 said:
Very nice indeed. I've always fancied a Dino since the days of watching The Persuaders (hence my previous ownership of a Bahama Yellow classic Aston Martin). Your DIno would pair rather well with my 70s Ghibli which is also in a rather vibrant Verde. Unfortunately I can't find any spare cash down the back of my sofa just at the moment....
Any photos of the Ghibli ?
Great thread this, why have Ferrari not tried to recreate a small, nimble car along the same lines, I am sure that a well designed properly thought out design could recreate the same beautiful shape.
As an apprentice at a Lotus dealership back in 1973 we had among the Elans and Europa models a 246 Dino that we serviced etc, I thought it was gorgeous then and still more so now.
It was owned by the owner of one of the holiday camps, he had the Dino along with a Austin champ jeep, his brothers owned Lotus models.
They to me with their wealth and well educated status along with well spoken grammar really were the Persuaders of the day.
Oh for a time machine. Mike
As an apprentice at a Lotus dealership back in 1973 we had among the Elans and Europa models a 246 Dino that we serviced etc, I thought it was gorgeous then and still more so now.
It was owned by the owner of one of the holiday camps, he had the Dino along with a Austin champ jeep, his brothers owned Lotus models.
They to me with their wealth and well educated status along with well spoken grammar really were the Persuaders of the day.
Oh for a time machine. Mike
Roof down said:
Great thread this, why have Ferrari not tried to recreate a small, nimble car along the same lines, I am sure that a well designed properly thought out design could recreate the same beautiful shape.
As an apprentice at a Lotus dealership back in 1973 we had among the Elans and Europa models a 246 Dino that we serviced etc, I thought it was gorgeous then and still more so now.
It was owned by the owner of one of the holiday camps, he had the Dino along with a Austin champ jeep, his brothers owned Lotus models.
They to me with their wealth and well educated status along with well spoken grammar really were the Persuaders of the day.
Oh for a time machine. Mike
They have (allegedly) :As an apprentice at a Lotus dealership back in 1973 we had among the Elans and Europa models a 246 Dino that we serviced etc, I thought it was gorgeous then and still more so now.
It was owned by the owner of one of the holiday camps, he had the Dino along with a Austin champ jeep, his brothers owned Lotus models.
They to me with their wealth and well educated status along with well spoken grammar really were the Persuaders of the day.
Oh for a time machine. Mike
https://rossoautomobili.com/blogs/magazine/is-ferr...
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-gen...
But the project was subsequently canned.
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