Ferrari 512BB Collecting Cars

[browngt3]

Seems like someone bagged a bargain

https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1979-ferrari-5...

Or am I missing something?

[Andy 308GTB]

I agree, seems very cheap.

[browngt3]

Guess it will soon appear on a dealers website for at least 100k more

[rat rod]

browngt3 said:

Seems like someone bagged a bargain

https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1979-ferrari-5...

Or am I missing something?

Been watching the prices slide for a while ,

The red Emblem Sports cars (the original one) modified Boxer that was built for the owner

John Woodfield went for around £115/£120K around 18 months ago on Collecting Cars

but was previously for sale at Bells for £225K ,probably on sor then failed to sell at Bonhams so the owner must

have just wanted out,

Then the 2 Koenig Boxers ,one black and the other blue sold at similar low prices ,

All these 3 being extensively modified so maybe not good comparisons as are no's no's

in the world of Ferrari,must say i did love the John Woodfield car ,not over the top and

looked like it had just escaped off the race track.I do remember not that long ago Boxers up at £300K/£350K

in the posh mews of London but £225K/£275K being more the norm now for nice cars.

This Boxer in question was recently advertised on "Car & Classic" for either £165K or £185K ,can't quite remember

which and then thinking it wasn't expensive at that price, ,I think another case of wanting out for what ever reason,

Seem to remember it had a long term ownership so maybe owner was getting on a bit in years and just needs

it sold, There's not many dealers out there that will buy a Boxer these days and prefer to S.O.R them

unless someone like Tom Hartley who would buy a very special low mileage example .

Thought they were a bargain when at £300K + compared to the Daytona when selling at £600K/£700K

but they are now down to £400K/£450K or less if you need to sell .

Auction houses especially Bonhams seem to have flooded the market with cheap DB6's from £120K for MK1's 1's to

£175K for MK2's when the boys in London are still at £350K/£450K for what should be much superior cars .

Can't see Boxers dropping any more as they will end up at GTB money,problem is i just don't think

there's any buyers out there for them anymore,DB6's the same, to heavy,not that quick with

eye watering expensive to service and repair, same could be said for the Countach but that's a iconic

masterpiece like the Miura that just gets better with age. Sorry, another one of my "War & Peace " post's

[Andy 308GTB]

rat rod said:

browngt3 said:

Seems like someone bagged a bargain

https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1979-ferrari-5...

Or am I missing something?

... very interesting stuff...

Thanks for that.

When I was looking at 308's in 1997/1998, I was told by a couple of dealers that the sellers were upgrading to Boxers for not a lot more money. Admittedly a bit more than I could afford but the price differential wasn't huge. At the time, I did consider upping my budget to a 328 but not a 512 - because of the tales of huge bills. The 308 carbs and dry sump won through.

I have looked back occassionaly and wished that I had stretched to a 512 though, they have great prescence and are truly impressive. From the engine to the clam shell rear lid - they hint at racing pedigree.

[Starfighter]

What happened to the one That Ratatossa rescued from a driveway in the UK and started to “restore” on his YouTube channel?

[browngt3]

I might have bought it at that price if I had the liquid funds. Been looking at Boxers for ages.

I always associate these cars with Top Trumps and being a kid in the 70's. There's also that F1 derived engine from the Lauda era which makes it an icon for me.

Are the running costs so bad compared to say a Testarossa though? Harry Metcalfe reckons the TR is a much better drive and I've heard people say the BB drives like a truck! If it's just a heavy clutch and the lack of power assistance steering that wouldn't bother me. Adds to the sense of occasion.

These cars at around £150k would be very compelling. Even with the high running costs, which let's face it, you're going to get with any 12 cylinder Ferrari

[Andy 308GTB]

browngt3 said:

I might have bought it at that price if I had the liquid funds. Been looking at Boxers for ages.

I always associate these cars with Top Trumps and being a kid in the 70's. There's also that F1 derived engine from the Lauda era which makes it an icon for me.

Are the running costs so bad compared to say a Testarossa though? Harry Metcalfe reckons the TR is a much better drive and I've heard people say the BB drives like a truck! If it's just a heavy clutch and the lack of power assistance steering that wouldn't bother me. Adds to the sense of occasion.

These cars at around £150k would be very compelling. Even with the high running costs, which let's face it, you're going to get with any 12 cylinder Ferrari

Yes, in hindsight, I would question the running costs thrown around. Sure, they will be more than a 308 but not multiples of?
Totally agree re the handling, you would pick what journeys you used it for - but having that engine behind your head would make up for a lot of faults.

[cgt2]

The only Boxer I've driven is an '83 BBi.

Lovely car but not sure it's nicer to drive than a well sorted Testarossa. At similar money it would make sense for relative rarity and more classic styling. I don't know where TRs are these days.

Love little touches like the graphic equaliser to the right of the steering column and the front/rear clamshells though.

[Ferruccio]

The only “real” view that you get on pricing is from auctions.

Dealers just ain’t in the transparency business.
They can ask whatever they like for a car; the rest is often unfathomable with most.

[Stryke]

Starfighter said:

What happened to the one That Ratatossa rescued from a driveway in the UK and started to “restore” on his YouTube channel?

Why the need to put restore in speech marks?

The guys took a break to do some paid work, the restoration is still on and he's doing a good job so far.

[rat rod]

Going back to the mid 80's I was buying Jim Davison 's black 1979 512 Boxer from Maranello's which

he was part exchanging for a brand new 308 QV.

Paying the princely sum of £16,500 , to put it in prospective i had bought a 1980 308 GTS not

long before for £12,750 so prices even then were close.

Looks like history is repeating itself ,

Unfortunately Jim never did take delivery of the 308 QV as he was heading for the divorce

courts once again ,Worst still i never got his Boxer, Hey Ho!! probably would have sold it

for £18K thinking now well i had done

[Starfighter]

Stryke said:

Starfighter said:

What happened to the one That Ratatossa rescued from a driveway in the UK and started to “restore” on his YouTube channel?

Why the need to put restore in speech marks?

The guys took a break to do some paid work, the restoration is still on and he's doing a good job so far.

I got the impression that there was a lot of pandering to the viewers on what to do rather than it being a planned restoration.

[Notsureaboutthat]

Just seen on their insta that DK has put up a LHD one from Belgium for 210k

[rat rod]

browngt3 said:

I might have bought it at that price if I had the liquid funds. Been looking at Boxers for ages.

I always associate these cars with Top Trumps and being a kid in the 70's. There's also that F1 derived engine from the Lauda era which makes it an icon for me.

Are the running costs so bad compared to say a Testarossa though? Harry Metcalfe reckons the TR is a much better drive and I've heard people say the BB drives like a truck! If it's just a heavy clutch and the lack of power assistance steering that wouldn't bother me. Adds to the sense of occasion.

These cars at around £150k would be very compelling. Even with the high running costs, which let's face it, you're going to get with any 12 cylinder Ferrari

Sold a carburetter 308 GTB to a guy who just sold his Boxer, Striving to own a one i couldn't understand why in my opinion

he was going backwards, he said he was fed up with the high cost of maintenance even then and also he wanted to do more

track days and the Boxer was very twitchy at the limit and that 308's were passing him on the twisty bits,

Saw him a couple of years later at a F.O.C Silverstone track day and he was in his Testarossa ,

He told me he did a p/ex deal with the GTB with the Testarossa , he loved the GTB but found it a step to far

backwards after owning a 12 cylinder Ferrari,

I think the reason the Boxer isn't as popular or as valuable as it should be is probably due to the Testarossa,

More modern to drive but is still a classic and will appeal to the same sort of buyer :scratchchin

Edited by rat rod on Monday 29th November 22:54

[browngt3]

Notsureaboutthat said:

Just seen on their insta that DK has put up a LHD one from Belgium for 210k

Yes I saw that one. Looks a nice example with a good history. Pity its a left hooker

[browngt3]

rat rod said:

I think the reason the Boxer isn't as popular or as valuable as it should be is probably due to the Testarossa,

More modern to drive but is still a classic and will appeal to the same sort of buyer :scratchchin


The TR is perhaps a little bit brash 80's for some. Whereas the BB is more elegant and classic. In my opinion of course.

The Testarossa was always a dream car for me but as I've got older the Boxer seems to appeal more and more.

Edited by rat rod on Monday 29th November 22:54

[Fessia fancier]

I do think that this was a good deal, I was watching it and it didn’t meet the reserve first time around. As mentioned above, the delta between the 308/328 used to be small, when I got my 328 in 1999 I could have had a boxer for 5-10k more, but the running costs and the very wide seats, strangely enough, put me off at the time. I do still think they are beautiful, though.
When it was listed the second time I might have gone to have a look but it was very far from me to go to take a look on the off chance.
I did also notice that there was corrosion on some small fixings where you would not expect it, such as some of the studs under the luggage compartment. I am not sure whether to extrapolate that to a general malaise but it did make me wonder.
Nonetheless it seemed a bit of a bargain.

[rat rod]

browngt3 said:

rat rod said:

I think the reason the Boxer isn't as popular or as valuable as it should be is probably due to the Testarossa,

More modern to drive but is still a classic and will appeal to the same sort of buyer :scratchchin


The TR is perhaps a little bit brash 80's for some. Whereas the BB is more elegant and classic. In my opinion of course.

The Testarossa was always a dream car for me but as I've got older the Boxer seems to appeal more and more.

Edited by rat rod on Monday 29th November 22:54

With the Testarossa selling for under £100K for many years the price

difference between Boxer was huge until the last year or so, Would liken the Boxer nearer

to the Daytona in classic status and the Testarossa retro classic,

For me the toggle switchs ,stalks and general more of a classic interior wins me over to

the Boxer as does the clam-shell front and rear as already mentioned.

That's probably why i decided to hang on to my carb GTB instead of changing it for a 328,

Just don't think i could get on with the plastic switch-gear ,shame as i think it's a better built car to the early 308's.

Almost bought a silver Testarossa before buying the 430 but would have been a tight sqeeze

getting it out on my own especially with no power steering., Practicalities won over for once,

[Fessia fancier]

rat rod said:

With the Testarossa selling for under £100K for many years the price

difference between Boxer was huge until the last year or so, Would liken the Boxer nearer

to the Daytona in classic status and the Testarossa retro classic,

For me the toggle switchs ,stalks and general more of a classic interior wins me over to

the Boxer as does the clam-shell front and rear as already mentioned.

That's probably why i decided to hang on to my carb GTB instead of changing it for a 328,

Just don't think i could get on with the plastic switch-gear ,shame as i think it's a better built car to the early 308's.

Almost bought a silver Testarossa before buying the 430 but would have been a tight sqeeze

getting it out on my own especially with no power steering., Practicalities won over for once,

I do agree that the price difference between the Testarossa and BB was large and consequently hard to justify moving from the Testa to the BB. As a Testa owner (and never having driven a BB) aesthetically I'd still prefer a BB sat in my garage but the Testarossa has always looked unique and that uniqueness is hard to find in any car - there really is nothing like it.
On another note, I agree carbs beat injection!
Looking back at this particular car there were lots of corroded fasteners/screws etc in the engine bay too, which seemed weird to me.