Ferrari 308,328 or 348?

[Wombat3]

TTB said:

Thank you. I'm still learning about these and the different variations.

There 4 basic variations of a 308, early fiberglass & carb'd, metal & carb'd, early injection (GTSi & GTBi) & QV ( 4 valve, injection).

Of the 4, the early 2 valve injection cars are probably the least desirable, they are well down on power on the others.

[TTB]

Wombat3 said:

There 4 basic variations of a 308, early fiberglass & carb'd, metal & carb'd, early injection (GTSi & GTBi) & QV ( 4 valve, injection).

Of the 4, the early 2 valve injection cars are probably the least desirable, they are well down on power on the others.

Thanks again, so a carb car is preferable.

[25th QV]

TTB said:

25th QV - have you seen this one?

https://www.retroclassiccar.com/cars/1981-ferrari-...

Sorry for the late reply, but yes, I spotted that, but it doesn't look very original either paint or seats, and the K jet would be my last choice. I'd much rather have an original survivor than a shiny cover-up.

I've since looked at a couple of 308s and a 328 in the flesh and been quite surprised that all of them had paint masking lines round the rear quarter windows and other areas. That's the kind of quality you paint a Sierra or Cavalier with. I really struggle to get my head round painting a Ferrari and not removing the glass, knowing there'll be a horrible masking line left behind. Just totally put me off the car(s).

There's a few still knocking around with a couple of other dealers but they all seem to be on sale or return and seldom actually at the dealer's premises. There are a couple of cars out there for sale with two different dealers at the same time!

A couple looked like they could have legs, until the detailed pictures came through that showed they had been badly repaired rotters. My eyes are now instantly drawn down and into the black belt line - the finish appearing to be a good overall indicator as to the car's originality and quality. Some of them are beyond dreadful - like black insulation tape stretched over rice crispies.

I'll keep an open mind, but I'm reaching the conclusion that most of the cars for sale are dogs in disguise, some less well disguised than others.

[25th QV]

Double post.

Edited by 25th QV on Saturday 25th April 07:21

[996Type]

These cars hit rock bottom a good 20 years ago and that combined with them being built with questionable techniques originally (70’s factory standards and Russian steel I believe), means majority will have had paint and periods of less rigorous care.

You can still pay double market rate for a collectors car but using it then would decrease its value, so you’re caught in the trap.

Tyrell has a great video regards a 308 GRP car and how outwardly it looked fine but was rotten underneath, plus the works to rectify (£££).

For me personally, I’d want the opposite if I had to compromise, a solid car that might be improved cosmetically. I do love factory originality though on seats and interior, whereas to me paint / rustproofing / suspension etc are areas that are probably better today than at the factory?

If you can’t find “the” car you want, if you went to Cartwright’s (or similar) they could talk you through the options to bring it up to whatever standard you wished.

For example, Pebble Beach concours etc.

It would be a labour of love though I expect, watching these cars be taken apart is an eye opener as they were manufactured without such thoughts of future disassembly in mind.

That injection car above is pricey, but the power difference would be minimal versus carbs and you’ll never be driving variants back to back, so a less critical consideration other than it’s well into carb price territory.

My suggestion is you keep looking at cars and work out what compromises you might make (or otherwise) or what budget you would be prepared to go to once you own a car to rectify past indiscretions.

At least you’d be driving a car in the meantime and as always, you priorities might shift to other parts of the car and you do that work first etc.

Ultimately if you buy right (a critical consideration) you can always sell right, but if you hold out for a unicorn and it takes say 3 years, would that be preferable to driving a “doer upper” over those three seasons?

Tough choice but great position to be in, keep us posted!

[robj4]

I often fancy getting a 328, looks like I've missed the boat completely, an outlier for sure, but still...

https://preowned.ferrari.com/en-GB/a/europe/used-f...

[4rephill]

robj4 said:

I often fancy getting a 328, looks like I've missed the boat completely, an outlier for sure, but still...

https://preowned.ferrari.com/en-GB/a/europe/used-f...

That's high end money for a 328 - If you're prepared to accept a bit of mileage, they are available for less money:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-search?channel=ca...

https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/search?make-id=23&...

[Wombat3]

robj4 said:

I often fancy getting a 328, looks like I've missed the boat completely, an outlier for sure, but still...

https://preowned.ferrari.com/en-GB/a/europe/used-f...

Thats just silly. Realistic price for a usable 328 is £65-£85k

There's one around with less than 1K miles on it for close to £200k. You couldn't drive it, same as all the low mileage unicorns, they'll depreciate like a stone the moment you turn the key, and where's the fun in that?

[25th QV]

Hi all, having been looking around and seen a few cars, I feel I'm in a better place to pull the trigger on a 308.

https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/20446357

I've spotted this one at Foskers which I really like (at face value, on line) and the initial response from Foskers to my questions was encouraging. Good paperwork, single figures owners, all correct and original factory spec etc. The only potential issue I felt was the lack of the original service book. All the other books are present, just not the service book, as the original owner was an engineer and owned the car for a very long time doing all his own maintenance. I'm comfortable with that as it's such a long time ago, and as I plan to do the same, it would be hypocritical to complain about DIY servicing.

I just wanted to sense check whether a missing service book is a red flag deal breaker, or quite a common thing on 50 year old Ferraris that have changed hands several times?

I know in many circles people get terribly excited about service history and I understand why, but surely as these cars get old and older, a more subjective evaluation of the car becomes the more salient factor. I probably sound like I'm trying to talk myself into it. But in fact I'm trying to make sure I don't talk myself out of it.

Any thoughts on the essentialness of an original service book appreciated.

[DeejRC]

I think you have to be clinically insane to spend £80k on a 308GTB.
If you must though, buy a lhd one. Your feet and ankles WILL thank you. Just trust me on this one.

[Wombat3]

25th QV said:

Hi all, having been looking around and seen a few cars, I feel I'm in a better place to pull the trigger on a 308.

https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/20446357

I've spotted this one at Foskers which I really like (at face value, on line) and the initial response from Foskers to my questions was encouraging. Good paperwork, single figures owners, all correct and original factory spec etc. The only potential issue I felt was the lack of the original service book. All the other books are present, just not the service book, as the original owner was an engineer and owned the car for a very long time doing all his own maintenance. I'm comfortable with that as it's such a long time ago, and as I plan to do the same, it would be hypocritical to complain about DIY servicing.

I just wanted to sense check whether a missing service book is a red flag deal breaker, or quite a common thing on 50 year old Ferraris that have changed hands several times?

I know in many circles people get terribly excited about service history and I understand why, but surely as these cars get old and older, a more subjective evaluation of the car becomes the more salient factor. I probably sound like I'm trying to talk myself into it. But in fact I'm trying to make sure I don't talk myself out of it.

Any thoughts on the essentialness of an original service book appreciated.

I'd say not *that* important as long as its got a nice fat file of invoices & servicing history. How many near 50 year old cars are going to have that & even if they do I'd expect big gaps in it.

I'd say that's a pretty rare car - not red, carb'd, dry sump & single exhaust. There can't be too many of them around in the UK.

[25th QV]

DeejRC said:

I think you have to be clinically insane to spend £80k on a 308GTB.
If you must though, buy a lhd one. Your feet and ankles WILL thank you. Just trust me on this one.

The problem is though, I can't find any decent ones for much less. Plenty of GTS and plenty of very poor condition examples that are full of filler and overspray on the edges of window rubbers etc.

I'm absolutely non-negotiable on GTB and having been scanning the classifieds for several months now, the mythical really nice, top 20% GTB in the UK for materially less does not appear to exist. Unless you can point me in the right direction that I've missed?

I even resorted to seeking value guides from AI, who confirmed typical retail on a nice dry sum, sub 40k mile 308 was £85-£90k.

[sparta6]

Wombat3 said:

25th QV said:

Hi all, having been looking around and seen a few cars, I feel I'm in a better place to pull the trigger on a 308.

https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/20446357

I've spotted this one at Foskers which I really like (at face value, on line) and the initial response from Foskers to my questions was encouraging. Good paperwork, single figures owners, all correct and original factory spec etc. The only potential issue I felt was the lack of the original service book. All the other books are present, just not the service book, as the original owner was an engineer and owned the car for a very long time doing all his own maintenance. I'm comfortable with that as it's such a long time ago, and as I plan to do the same, it would be hypocritical to complain about DIY servicing.

I just wanted to sense check whether a missing service book is a red flag deal breaker, or quite a common thing on 50 year old Ferraris that have changed hands several times?

I know in many circles people get terribly excited about service history and I understand why, but surely as these cars get old and older, a more subjective evaluation of the car becomes the more salient factor. I probably sound like I'm trying to talk myself into it. But in fact I'm trying to make sure I don't talk myself out of it.

Any thoughts on the essentialness of an original service book appreciated.

I'd say not *that* important as long as its got a nice fat file of invoices & servicing history. How many near 50 year old cars are going to have that & even if they do I'd expect big gaps in it.

I'd say that's a pretty rare car - not red, carb'd, dry sump & single exhaust. There can't be too many of them around in the UK.

and Foskers are good to deal with

[NeilTB]

I’ve owned a similar 308 GTB. They are lovely cars. Personally I’d not be that bothered about the lack of the original service book as long as there is a long history of service work actually being done. Obviously worth getting someone who really knows these cars to inspect it for you?

Values are a purely personally decision but as you say this is pretty much where the market is today for good examples.

Upgraded brakes transformed the usability of mine. Good luck

[johnnyreggae]

25th QV said:

Any thoughts on the essentialness of an original service book appreciated.

The service book would have run out about 30 years ago if the original had been there (which is possibly why I'd estimate maybe 1 % still have it and they are stuck in collections) so the realistic question becomes can I drive the car without it to which the answer is obviously yes - beyond that what is more important how often the oil was changed in the last century or what do the last five years history look like ?

[DeejRC]

25th QV said:

DeejRC said:

I think you have to be clinically insane to spend £80k on a 308GTB.
If you must though, buy a lhd one. Your feet and ankles WILL thank you. Just trust me on this one.

The problem is though, I can't find any decent ones for much less. Plenty of GTS and plenty of very poor condition examples that are full of filler and overspray on the edges of window rubbers etc.

I'm absolutely non-negotiable on GTB and having been scanning the classifieds for several months now, the mythical really nice, top 20% GTB in the UK for materially less does not appear to exist. Unless you can point me in the right direction that I've missed?

I even resorted to seeking value guides from AI, who confirmed typical retail on a nice dry sum, sub 40k mile 308 was £85-£90k.

My answer would simply be: buy something else!
Don’t get me wrong, buying my 308 was an 80s boy dream come true. Yes, it’s had a not insignificant impact on physically crippling me for life, but that’s almost not the point. I absolutely get it. I bought mine at £27k though, the idea of spending £80k now - especially knowing what I do after owning and driving one - is pure insanity. There are just vastly vastly better donkeys available for £80-90k.

[Josemartinez]

Go for it OP, if it's what you want, your happy with the price and you can make it work financially, do it. You never know what will happen in life so get the Ferrari whilst you can.

[25th QV]

DeejRC said:

My answer would simply be: buy something else!
Don t get me wrong, buying my 308 was an 80s boy dream come true. Yes, it s had a not insignificant impact on physically crippling me for life, but that s almost not the point. I absolutely get it. I bought mine at £27k though, the idea of spending £80k now - especially knowing what I do after owning and driving one - is pure insanity. There are just vastly vastly better donkeys available for £80-90k.

I can understand that perspective. I'm in the same boat regarding air cooled 911's, where a genuinely really good one are similar money. I remember when they were half the price you paid for your 308, and to me they're just not that good, nor special enough to be worth that (to me). But then again, a 308 Ferrari is enormously special to me.

I agree, there are lots of cars out there that are far better - a near endless choice. But for me, it's not about speed, handling, objective performance - it's about a visceral experience, an emotion, the way something makes you feel. I was toying with a 360 for similar money, but when I finally got up close and personal with one, with money in my pocket, it just left me cold. Far too modern and clinical for my tastes.

There are 3 cars on my all time bucket list - a Countach, a 911SC and a 308. I was lucky enough to own a Countach over 15 years ago when they were rock bottom, but the other two have eluded me and I want to address that whilst I can.

Edited by 25th QV on Sunday 26th July 22:19

[DeejRC]

Yer preaching to the wrong bloke on 911s. They are cars for dads who still think both they and their children are cool.
Though I will make an exception for my 911 owning brother on the grounds that he and everybody who has ever known him has never ever thought he was cool.

[25th QV]

DeejRC said:

Yer preaching to the wrong bloke on 911s. They are cars for dads who still think both they and their children are cool.
Though I will make an exception for my 911 owning brother on the grounds that he and everybody who has ever known him has never ever thought he was cool.

Oh, I've never been cool, nor ever will be! LOL.

These are emotional, irrational purchases. For me, cars I love all have a common theme; theatre and sense of occasion. Their objective capabilities are somewhat irrelevant. I 'should' want a NSX because it's one of the most sorted and capable sports cars, but instead, I'd take a Pantera all day and every, every day and twice on Sunday's. for all the non-quantifiable reasons.

When I consider the concept of far better cars for the money, for me it all boils down to 'better at what?'. This is where the emotion takes over.