Classic vs modern V12
Discussion
I've had a GTC/4 since 1992.
They are very underrated, and good to drive.
I leave mine over the winter and it always starts and is no trouble.
You need to get a specialist to give you a report on one to buy, since they can have been neglected.
I look after it myself, using specialists occasionally.
Some of the jobs for servicing are a pain, such as tappet shims, but don't need doing very often.
My car was featured in Octane November 2022.
I'm in Northampton if you want to talk further.
They are very underrated, and good to drive.
I leave mine over the winter and it always starts and is no trouble.
You need to get a specialist to give you a report on one to buy, since they can have been neglected.
I look after it myself, using specialists occasionally.
Some of the jobs for servicing are a pain, such as tappet shims, but don't need doing very often.
My car was featured in Octane November 2022.
I'm in Northampton if you want to talk further.
neill said:
I've had a GTC/4 since 1992.
They are very underrated, and good to drive.
I leave mine over the winter and it always starts and is no trouble.
You need to get a specialist to give you a report on one to buy, since they can have been neglected.
I look after it myself, using specialists occasionally.
Some of the jobs for servicing are a pain, such as tappet shims, but don't need doing very often.
My car was featured in Octane November 2022.
I'm in Northampton if you want to talk further.
Thank you Neil. That’s very kind. Would it be possible to message me your contact details so we can chat? They are very underrated, and good to drive.
I leave mine over the winter and it always starts and is no trouble.
You need to get a specialist to give you a report on one to buy, since they can have been neglected.
I look after it myself, using specialists occasionally.
Some of the jobs for servicing are a pain, such as tappet shims, but don't need doing very often.
My car was featured in Octane November 2022.
I'm in Northampton if you want to talk further.
Congratulations on getting yourself into this lovely conundrum.
I am lucky enough to own 2 V12 Ferraris; a manual 456GT and a FF.
We have a trip to the South of France and back in a couple of months.
On trips like these we tend to leave the FF at home and take the 456. It was built for these journeys and an older car is almost always received more favourably. The 456 is dark blue Swaters Blu) over Crema and is just so elegant, particularly on the continent. It also has better ride height which can be useful in provencal villages.
The more we use the 456 the better is gets. We did 3,000 miles in France and Spain last summer without hitch. At 65,000 miles, I don't worry about the miles on the 456, but I do on the newer V12, which has less than half that mileage.
Either way you are going to have a wonderful experience, but I think that the 'vintage' Ferrari makes that experience even more of an experience and much more classy and stylish. Good luck with the search!
I am lucky enough to own 2 V12 Ferraris; a manual 456GT and a FF.
We have a trip to the South of France and back in a couple of months.
On trips like these we tend to leave the FF at home and take the 456. It was built for these journeys and an older car is almost always received more favourably. The 456 is dark blue Swaters Blu) over Crema and is just so elegant, particularly on the continent. It also has better ride height which can be useful in provencal villages.
The more we use the 456 the better is gets. We did 3,000 miles in France and Spain last summer without hitch. At 65,000 miles, I don't worry about the miles on the 456, but I do on the newer V12, which has less than half that mileage.
Either way you are going to have a wonderful experience, but I think that the 'vintage' Ferrari makes that experience even more of an experience and much more classy and stylish. Good luck with the search!
neill said:
I've had a GTC/4 since 1992.
They are very underrated, and good to drive.
I leave mine over the winter and it always starts and is no trouble.
You need to get a specialist to give you a report on one to buy, since they can have been neglected.
I look after it myself, using specialists occasionally.
Some of the jobs for servicing are a pain, such as tappet shims, but don't need doing very often.
My car was featured in Octane November 2022.
I'm in Northampton if you want to talk further.
I think I went out for a drive with the previous owner of your GTC/4 in the late 80s. He was a family friend. It was a great car. He had quite a collection, including a Competition spec. Daytona. I then spotted your car again at the FOC event at Sywell in June 2022. I am also in Northamptonshire.They are very underrated, and good to drive.
I leave mine over the winter and it always starts and is no trouble.
You need to get a specialist to give you a report on one to buy, since they can have been neglected.
I look after it myself, using specialists occasionally.
Some of the jobs for servicing are a pain, such as tappet shims, but don't need doing very often.
My car was featured in Octane November 2022.
I'm in Northampton if you want to talk further.
Hello Adam, nice dilemma to have.
I'll add my 2 cents - similar age so hopefully looking at things from a similar viewpoint.
I've had a few V12's, Ferrari and Mercedes, the one car I've kept (for 20+ years now) is my 512TR.
I bought a new 812 having spent a lot of time in F12's, on road & track, and kept it for just over a year - putting not a lot of miles on it. It's since been sold another four times....
I intended to keep it long term but at the time had 3 V12's in the garage and it was rarely the right car for the drive ahead. My (ex) girlfriend hated it. It was quick and exciting but its usability was pretty limited outside of a quick blast.
The older V12s are not too much to maintain. Admittedly, my 512 is fuel-injected, but ignoring carburettors on some of the older cars, they're relatively simple.
If you're looking for something to use for road trips rather than a weekend blast I'd say go for the older car. They're better on long trips, particularly if the modern car has been spec'd with 'carbon racing seats'. They don't have the balastic performance but do you need to be doing 150+ to have fun?
Having said that, I think the sweet spot of the modern V12's is the F12. Fantastic car that is as fast as you want (at least) but can also fulfil the GT role of any longer trip.
Have a think about what you want to use it for and go from there. If you get a good older car, take the maintenance horror stories with a grain of salt but, the F12 is also a fantastic car.
Re-reading this I understand I haven't steered you in any particular direction but then I think either choice, if it fits your use-case, you can't lose.
I'll add my 2 cents - similar age so hopefully looking at things from a similar viewpoint.
I've had a few V12's, Ferrari and Mercedes, the one car I've kept (for 20+ years now) is my 512TR.
I bought a new 812 having spent a lot of time in F12's, on road & track, and kept it for just over a year - putting not a lot of miles on it. It's since been sold another four times....
I intended to keep it long term but at the time had 3 V12's in the garage and it was rarely the right car for the drive ahead. My (ex) girlfriend hated it. It was quick and exciting but its usability was pretty limited outside of a quick blast.
The older V12s are not too much to maintain. Admittedly, my 512 is fuel-injected, but ignoring carburettors on some of the older cars, they're relatively simple.
If you're looking for something to use for road trips rather than a weekend blast I'd say go for the older car. They're better on long trips, particularly if the modern car has been spec'd with 'carbon racing seats'. They don't have the balastic performance but do you need to be doing 150+ to have fun?
Having said that, I think the sweet spot of the modern V12's is the F12. Fantastic car that is as fast as you want (at least) but can also fulfil the GT role of any longer trip.
Have a think about what you want to use it for and go from there. If you get a good older car, take the maintenance horror stories with a grain of salt but, the F12 is also a fantastic car.
Re-reading this I understand I haven't steered you in any particular direction but then I think either choice, if it fits your use-case, you can't lose.
Edited by Johnnyforeigner on Thursday 10th April 16:00
Once you have got past the 30 secs initial firmness, the Ferrari Carbon Race Seats, in my F12, Pista, SF90 AF are the most comfortable Carbon seats out there, way better than the 918 Porsche ones, done many Euro trips in Ferrari Carbon Racing Seats. They also look like they should be in a Ferrari and well worth price difference imho. Body shapes will of course dictate.
belfry said:
Congratulations on getting yourself into this lovely conundrum.
I am lucky enough to own 2 V12 Ferraris; a manual 456GT and a FF.
We have a trip to the South of France and back in a couple of months.
On trips like these we tend to leave the FF at home and take the 456. It was built for these journeys and an older car is almost always received more favourably. The 456 is dark blue Swaters Blu) over Crema and is just so elegant, particularly on the continent. It also has better ride height which can be useful in provencal villages.
The more we use the 456 the better is gets. We did 3,000 miles in France and Spain last summer without hitch. At 65,000 miles, I don't worry about the miles on the 456, but I do on the newer V12, which has less than half that mileage.
Either way you are going to have a wonderful experience, but I think that the 'vintage' Ferrari makes that experience even more of an experience and much more classy and stylish. Good luck with the search!
What a lovely choice to have Belfry. The 456 is another occupier of that sweet middle ground in age terms. I am married to an Italian, so European trips will be on the cards, albeit the majority of use will be Sunday drives over here. I think one advantage the classics have is that condition starts to matter more than mileage, whereas mileage seems to be everything in F12 market pricing at the moment. As you and others have pointed out, either will be a great experience. I am lucky enough to own 2 V12 Ferraris; a manual 456GT and a FF.
We have a trip to the South of France and back in a couple of months.
On trips like these we tend to leave the FF at home and take the 456. It was built for these journeys and an older car is almost always received more favourably. The 456 is dark blue Swaters Blu) over Crema and is just so elegant, particularly on the continent. It also has better ride height which can be useful in provencal villages.
The more we use the 456 the better is gets. We did 3,000 miles in France and Spain last summer without hitch. At 65,000 miles, I don't worry about the miles on the 456, but I do on the newer V12, which has less than half that mileage.
Either way you are going to have a wonderful experience, but I think that the 'vintage' Ferrari makes that experience even more of an experience and much more classy and stylish. Good luck with the search!
Johnnyforeigner said:
Hello Adam, nice dilemma to have.
I'll add my 2 cents - similar age so hopefully looking at things from a similar viewpoint.
I've had a few V12's, Ferrari and Mercedes, the one car I've kept (for 20+ years now) is my 512TR.
I bought a new 812 having spent a lot of time in F12's, on road & track, and kept it for just over a year - putting not a lot of miles on it. It's since been sold another four times....
I intended to keep it long term but at the time had 3 V12's in the garage and it was rarely the right car for the drive ahead. My (ex) girlfriend hated it. It was quick and exciting but its usability was pretty limited outside of a quick blast.
The older V12s are not too much to maintain. Admittedly, my 512 is fuel-injected, but ignoring carburettors on some of the older cars, they're relatively simple.
If you're looking for something to use for road trips rather than a weekend blast I'd say go for the older car. They're better on long trips, particularly if the modern car has been spec'd with 'carbon racing seats'. They don't have the balastic performance but do you need to be doing 150+ to have fun?
Having said that, I think the sweet spot of the modern V12's is the F12. Fantastic car that is as fast as you want (at least) but can also fulfil the GT role of any longer trip.
Have a think about what you want to use it for and go from there. If you get a good older car, take the maintenance horror stories with a grain of salt but, the F12 is also a fantastic car.
Re-reading this I understand I haven't steered you in any particular direction but then I think either choice, if it fits your use-case, you can't lose.
Thanks Johnny. I will hopefully have had a chance to drive both by the end of next week, so can make a more informed decision. I will report back.I'll add my 2 cents - similar age so hopefully looking at things from a similar viewpoint.
I've had a few V12's, Ferrari and Mercedes, the one car I've kept (for 20+ years now) is my 512TR.
I bought a new 812 having spent a lot of time in F12's, on road & track, and kept it for just over a year - putting not a lot of miles on it. It's since been sold another four times....
I intended to keep it long term but at the time had 3 V12's in the garage and it was rarely the right car for the drive ahead. My (ex) girlfriend hated it. It was quick and exciting but its usability was pretty limited outside of a quick blast.
The older V12s are not too much to maintain. Admittedly, my 512 is fuel-injected, but ignoring carburettors on some of the older cars, they're relatively simple.
If you're looking for something to use for road trips rather than a weekend blast I'd say go for the older car. They're better on long trips, particularly if the modern car has been spec'd with 'carbon racing seats'. They don't have the balastic performance but do you need to be doing 150+ to have fun?
Having said that, I think the sweet spot of the modern V12's is the F12. Fantastic car that is as fast as you want (at least) but can also fulfil the GT role of any longer trip.
Have a think about what you want to use it for and go from there. If you get a good older car, take the maintenance horror stories with a grain of salt but, the F12 is also a fantastic car.
Re-reading this I understand I haven't steered you in any particular direction but then I think either choice, if it fits your use-case, you can't lose.
Edited by Johnnyforeigner on Thursday 10th April 16:00
adam917k said:
Damn! 2 x 512TRs have just appeared in the classifieds. Unhelpful timing. Like buses…..
this thread made me look at them again too ... I wanted to sell some cars to pay down my mortgage, now I am back to thinking life is short and the mortgage is a problem for tomorrow. uh oh....Lovely thread Adam.
There is one thing that puts me off the GTC4 and it really really annoys me: they were £35k back in the day when I first looked at them
I couldn’t stomach their prices now.
The other aspect I would say for a 70s Ferrari is L or rhd? I had the painful learning experience of just how badly the lhd 308GTS I owned translates to rhd. I would suggest you get some decent seat time in an old GTC4 to ensure that actually it isn’t crippling. I have to drive my GTS back from Switzerland with a semi broken foot due to the angle my feet were forced into by the footwell.
The F12 however, well, I have a few posts on here that basically extol its virtues as quite possibly the best car ever made. I don’t care about miles, I put them on any car I own, nothing is spared, everything has to be driven daily and used as part of my 2000miles/month travels. I put 12,000 miles on my F12 in under a year mostly doing the Cornwall to Oxford commute to clients. Loved, loved, loved that car, it was simply superb at everything it did and quite able to hold Teams meetings in her whilst I drove.
The overly light steering was the only slight criticism I could level at her, otherwise simply brilliant.
There is one thing that puts me off the GTC4 and it really really annoys me: they were £35k back in the day when I first looked at them
I couldn’t stomach their prices now.The other aspect I would say for a 70s Ferrari is L or rhd? I had the painful learning experience of just how badly the lhd 308GTS I owned translates to rhd. I would suggest you get some decent seat time in an old GTC4 to ensure that actually it isn’t crippling. I have to drive my GTS back from Switzerland with a semi broken foot due to the angle my feet were forced into by the footwell.
The F12 however, well, I have a few posts on here that basically extol its virtues as quite possibly the best car ever made. I don’t care about miles, I put them on any car I own, nothing is spared, everything has to be driven daily and used as part of my 2000miles/month travels. I put 12,000 miles on my F12 in under a year mostly doing the Cornwall to Oxford commute to clients. Loved, loved, loved that car, it was simply superb at everything it did and quite able to hold Teams meetings in her whilst I drove.
The overly light steering was the only slight criticism I could level at her, otherwise simply brilliant.
adam917k said:
Thank you Neil. That’s very kind. Would it be possible to message me your contact details so we can chat?
Interesting that the Autostore 365GTC4 has non original front seats , they don't look very comfortable for long distance , the original seats are nicely padded and the backs fold to get at the rear seats . The rear seats are only suitable for children , however they do fold down for extra luggage space .Although the boot is a good size and even has a full sized spare wheel .
adam917k said:
What a lovely choice to have Belfry. The 456 is another occupier of that sweet middle ground in age terms. I am married to an Italian, so European trips will be on the cards, albeit the majority of use will be Sunday drives over here. I think one advantage the classics have is that condition starts to matter more than mileage, whereas mileage seems to be everything in F12 market pricing at the moment. As you and others have pointed out, either will be a great experience.
The more I think about the ideal for choice of Ferrari for you , the 456 is the one . It's probably one of the best looking ever made .The 456M with a manual box in dark green , or dark blue with tan inside would be perfection .
However even the auto is relaxing to drive and you wont have to worry about replacing the clutch .
This is a great long distance car and a good transition between old and new ,they are also incredibly good value for money .
Much as I like the GTC4 , one of my favorite Ferrari, they are now over 50 years old and each journey would be a worry .
As for modern Ferrari especially red ones , you start to look a bit of a prat as you get out of them .
Where as the 456 is a very smart but not flash , they will let you out of a side turning .
Never thought anyone getting out of a modern F12 or 812 looked a prat in any colour… problem with the 456 will be availability of parts at the moment, some of the best independents will tell you that. Your car could sit for months waiting for some parts to arrive. Not sure why this is, but it’s a known problem on 456. Side turnings?? What are you on about…
Edited by maura on Saturday 12th April 18:34
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