Sale or Return Recommendations
Discussion
Or the dealer is not selling cars and is at capacity. Some are reluctant to take anything on in slow periods unless they have a buyer already in mind. Pangbourne did a G for me on SOR and I actually got more than I paid for it - just.
Owens were rammed the 2nd time around so Craig recommended these guys: https://www.facebook.com/motion8cars/
Not exactly south-east but they sold mine in about 2 months. Good return as well due to lower overheads than the main dealer. Nice guys, can confidently recommend either Pangbourne or Motion 8 if you prefer an indie. Matthew or Chris, ex-Graypaul guys so they know their stuff
Owens were rammed the 2nd time around so Craig recommended these guys: https://www.facebook.com/motion8cars/
Not exactly south-east but they sold mine in about 2 months. Good return as well due to lower overheads than the main dealer. Nice guys, can confidently recommend either Pangbourne or Motion 8 if you prefer an indie. Matthew or Chris, ex-Graypaul guys so they know their stuff
Absolutely right; plenty of horror stories out there regarding SOR. I am currently selling my Balboni and my first port of call were the official dealers who offered me very little on a SOR. The cost of the car preparation and the two-year warranty (circa £8k) alone made things unviable for me. So after a recommendation, I went to VVS. They loved the car, took care of it (very important indeed) and advertised it for top dollar. It was one of about 50 cars in their storage facility in Kent. However, I have a new Lambo coming soon and want a quick sale at a more competitive price so I decided to take back my car and use AV (stands for "Aldous Voice") Engineering who have recently set up a brand new high tech workshop in Kent. PHers who own Ferrari 360s and 430s will no doubt be aware of Aldous's superlative engineering talents. I am also fortunate to own a 360 and I have been a regular customer of AV for a couple of years now. I also know his business partner, Harvey Neale, very well who also owns a gaggle of supercars and has a peerless knowlege of supercars, particularly Ferraris. SORs have the potential for going horribly wrong so it is very important that you do your due diligence. AV Engineering ticked all the boxes for me. These boxes (not exhaustive) should be:
1. Reputation and trustworthiness - unfortunately the former does not guarantee the latter! Recommendations are important and it is vital that you meet the broker first to get a least a feel for what they are like. Is it all sales patter or are they a true enthusiast and knowledgeable about your car? Do they return your calls and emails etc? If they don't do it now you can bet they will go AWOL if you have a dispute! They will also need to keep your regularly informed of progress. This is important.
2. Check out the company at Companies House (free check) - for ownership details and it will let you know if it is in financial difficulty eg receivership! The risk which is very difficult to deal with is if the broker goes bust when they receive the sale proceeds and then it is arguable that you will simply be an unsecured creditor. A title retention clause in the SOR agreement may assist. There are what are known as "escrow" arrangements where the monies are held by a neutral third party but these are unheard of in the car industry.
3. Check their current stock. Have they got any of the same model that will directly compete with your car? It makes business sense that the broker will try to sell a model that they own outright before a SOR car. Also how many cars do they have? Will your car get lost amongst any hyper-car exotica? Having said that, the price point of these cars are very different.
4. Will they agree to sell at a price that you are comfortable with? Do not be driven by greed. Stay realistic particularly in the current market.
5. Is their commission competitive? Will they charge a fixed fee or a percentage of the sales price? This will not doubt be the subject of negotiation. I prefer the fixed fee. There should be no upfront costs as the cost of car preparation and advertising etc will be met by the broker. The broker will only get paid at the point the car is sold and the monies received.
6. Where is their storage facility and is it safe and secure? Are they insured and will they put your car on their rolling stock policy? What will be the agreed insured value if for example it is stolen whilst in their possession or control? Harvey actually logged into his PC and put the car on their policy whilst I was there and showed me all the security arrangements.
7. Are they just a showroom or do they have also have a workshop? Reputable brokers are mindful of their obligations under the Consumer Rights Act and will want to carefully inspect your vehicle or at least rely upon an up-to-date official inspection. Just having a full main dealer service history doesn't cut it.
8. Perhaps most importantly you need to enter into a Sale or Return Agreement which will be legally binding on the broker in the case anything goes wrong. In this document you will, amongst other things, agree the mileage, insurance provisions, refer to the condition of the car at the point of delivery (by photos) and the mechanism for payment, title retention clause, the amount of commission and the duration of the agreement. Unfortunately you do usually have to build in a period of months to sell a supercar. AV Engineering were very happy to enter into a SOR agreement containing these provisions which is always a very good sign.
9. Have they sold any cars recently or do they appear to be sitting around for ages gathering dust? Keep an eye on their website. AV Engineering have been doing well recently.
10. Will they take a part-exchange? If they do, it will broaden the market for your car.
As I mentioned, the above is not an exhaustive list and is simply based on my personal experience.
And just a final word that if you want to maximise your chances of a sale you need to do some preparatory work even before you approach the dealer. The mantra is: don't give a buyer a reason to reject your car. Ensure you have:
1. The V5, A full service history with a fully stamped service book. All invoices. All MOTs (if applicable). All the original documentation like the car manual etcs. Two sets of keys. Two sets of tracker fobs (if applicable). All certificates eg my glass-coat certificate. You also need to deal with any existing finance arrangements. Mine has no finance so cannot comment
2. All the tool boxes, inflator kits that came with the car. Also if you have them, the Lambo charger and car cover. Try not to take any souvenirs from the car! Tempting though they are.
3. The wheels refurbished and the body work prepared. I had the stone chips repaired and had a protective wrap put on the car for good measure!
Finally, good luck with your sale and patience is definitely a virtue in this game!
1. Reputation and trustworthiness - unfortunately the former does not guarantee the latter! Recommendations are important and it is vital that you meet the broker first to get a least a feel for what they are like. Is it all sales patter or are they a true enthusiast and knowledgeable about your car? Do they return your calls and emails etc? If they don't do it now you can bet they will go AWOL if you have a dispute! They will also need to keep your regularly informed of progress. This is important.
2. Check out the company at Companies House (free check) - for ownership details and it will let you know if it is in financial difficulty eg receivership! The risk which is very difficult to deal with is if the broker goes bust when they receive the sale proceeds and then it is arguable that you will simply be an unsecured creditor. A title retention clause in the SOR agreement may assist. There are what are known as "escrow" arrangements where the monies are held by a neutral third party but these are unheard of in the car industry.
3. Check their current stock. Have they got any of the same model that will directly compete with your car? It makes business sense that the broker will try to sell a model that they own outright before a SOR car. Also how many cars do they have? Will your car get lost amongst any hyper-car exotica? Having said that, the price point of these cars are very different.
4. Will they agree to sell at a price that you are comfortable with? Do not be driven by greed. Stay realistic particularly in the current market.
5. Is their commission competitive? Will they charge a fixed fee or a percentage of the sales price? This will not doubt be the subject of negotiation. I prefer the fixed fee. There should be no upfront costs as the cost of car preparation and advertising etc will be met by the broker. The broker will only get paid at the point the car is sold and the monies received.
6. Where is their storage facility and is it safe and secure? Are they insured and will they put your car on their rolling stock policy? What will be the agreed insured value if for example it is stolen whilst in their possession or control? Harvey actually logged into his PC and put the car on their policy whilst I was there and showed me all the security arrangements.
7. Are they just a showroom or do they have also have a workshop? Reputable brokers are mindful of their obligations under the Consumer Rights Act and will want to carefully inspect your vehicle or at least rely upon an up-to-date official inspection. Just having a full main dealer service history doesn't cut it.
8. Perhaps most importantly you need to enter into a Sale or Return Agreement which will be legally binding on the broker in the case anything goes wrong. In this document you will, amongst other things, agree the mileage, insurance provisions, refer to the condition of the car at the point of delivery (by photos) and the mechanism for payment, title retention clause, the amount of commission and the duration of the agreement. Unfortunately you do usually have to build in a period of months to sell a supercar. AV Engineering were very happy to enter into a SOR agreement containing these provisions which is always a very good sign.
9. Have they sold any cars recently or do they appear to be sitting around for ages gathering dust? Keep an eye on their website. AV Engineering have been doing well recently.
10. Will they take a part-exchange? If they do, it will broaden the market for your car.
As I mentioned, the above is not an exhaustive list and is simply based on my personal experience.
And just a final word that if you want to maximise your chances of a sale you need to do some preparatory work even before you approach the dealer. The mantra is: don't give a buyer a reason to reject your car. Ensure you have:
1. The V5, A full service history with a fully stamped service book. All invoices. All MOTs (if applicable). All the original documentation like the car manual etcs. Two sets of keys. Two sets of tracker fobs (if applicable). All certificates eg my glass-coat certificate. You also need to deal with any existing finance arrangements. Mine has no finance so cannot comment
2. All the tool boxes, inflator kits that came with the car. Also if you have them, the Lambo charger and car cover. Try not to take any souvenirs from the car! Tempting though they are.
3. The wheels refurbished and the body work prepared. I had the stone chips repaired and had a protective wrap put on the car for good measure!
Finally, good luck with your sale and patience is definitely a virtue in this game!
Thanks for the comprehensive advice.
On reflection, I think I will do what I generally do and try to achieve a private sale. The risk/reward of SoR seems to be no better than a private sale to me. The only downside is that selling privately at this price point limits the market for the car by not be able to offer part exchange or finance, but as I am not in a rush to sell I can wait it out a while.
On reflection, I think I will do what I generally do and try to achieve a private sale. The risk/reward of SoR seems to be no better than a private sale to me. The only downside is that selling privately at this price point limits the market for the car by not be able to offer part exchange or finance, but as I am not in a rush to sell I can wait it out a while.
SoR works very well if you have a personal relationship with the garage and they know your car inside-out. For example, if the garage has serviced and done any repairs on your car for the past, say, 2 years. You can get near-retail price and the garage has confidence to sell it on your behalf with warranty.
RR50 said:
Thanks for the comprehensive advice.
On reflection, I think I will do what I generally do and try to achieve a private sale. The risk/reward of SoR seems to be no better than a private sale to me. The only downside is that selling privately at this price point limits the market for the car by not be able to offer part exchange or finance, but as I am not in a rush to sell I can wait it out a while.
A lot of people won't spend that cash on a private sale without the backing of a dealer's name (and warranty). Result is you'll end up selling below what the dealer would achieve and it'll take longer. Plus you'll get no end of messers. I've sold several high end cars on SOR through specialists and had no issues. You need to choose a specialist known for your particular car; no point putting it with a Porsche specialist for example. And yes, do your homework on them.On reflection, I think I will do what I generally do and try to achieve a private sale. The risk/reward of SoR seems to be no better than a private sale to me. The only downside is that selling privately at this price point limits the market for the car by not be able to offer part exchange or finance, but as I am not in a rush to sell I can wait it out a while.
RR50 said:
I am considering selling my 09 LP560 on a SoR basis. Does anyone have any recommendations for dealers in the South East that they have used for this?
Also any advice on using this method of selling would be appreciated as I have not sold a car this way before.
Thanks.
OP. I've sold two Ferraris (550 & 599) on SOR through Simon Furlonger in Ashford and they've been very good in all respects. Simon's got a good reputation. They're very honest & realistic up-front. They returned me exactly the amount promised on both occasions. Also any advice on using this method of selling would be appreciated as I have not sold a car this way before.
Thanks.
onni1kenobi said:
. . . Are they insured and will they put your car on their rolling stock policy? What will be the agreed insured value if for example it is stolen whilst in their possession or control? Harvey actually logged into his PC and put the car on their policy whilst I was there and showed me all the security arrangements.
Great points but, just to clarify, that sounds like he simply added it to the MID and that has no effect on the Stock sum insured on his Schedule. I'd be asking to see that and taking your own view as to whether it will comfortably accommodate your car as well as all of his other stock.Let's say his Stock sum insured is £500k, he has that much in stock and he takes in a £150k car on SOR. He'll need to speak to his broker to increase the Stock sum insured to £650k, regardless of whether he added it to the MID. The MID department and the Underwriters don't talk.
In addition, unless he's going to take it out on the road without trade plates - perfectly feasible if you've handed it to him with tax and MOT - then it doesn't even need to be on his MID record.
Perhaps he needs a different broker?! ;-)
PistonBroker said:
Great points but, just to clarify, that sounds like he simply added it to the MID and that has no effect on the Stock sum insured on his Schedule. I'd be asking to see that and taking your own view as to whether it will comfortably accommodate your car as well as all of his other stock.
Let's say his Stock sum insured is £500k, he has that much in stock and he takes in a £150k car on SOR. He'll need to speak to his broker to increase the Stock sum insured to £650k, regardless of whether he added it to the MID. The MID department and the Underwriters don't talk.
In addition, unless he's going to take it out on the road without trade plates - perfectly feasible if you've handed it to him with tax and MOT - then it doesn't even need to be on his MID record.
Perhaps he needs a different broker?! ;-)
The car was added into our stock and submitted during our weekly declaration - our client saw Harvey add the details onto the declaration form. Our stock sum exceeds the value of vehicles held on our premises and any of our clients are welcome to inspect the paperwork as we have nothing to hide. Any car that is in our care (be it our own stock, SoR or workshop business) is fully insured and I am happy to prove this to anyone who has a legitimate interest in knowing.Let's say his Stock sum insured is £500k, he has that much in stock and he takes in a £150k car on SOR. He'll need to speak to his broker to increase the Stock sum insured to £650k, regardless of whether he added it to the MID. The MID department and the Underwriters don't talk.
In addition, unless he's going to take it out on the road without trade plates - perfectly feasible if you've handed it to him with tax and MOT - then it doesn't even need to be on his MID record.
Perhaps he needs a different broker?! ;-)
!!!!!!!!!
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