Abusive Trolls and Bigots
Discussion
B'stard Child said:
drainbrain said:
B'stard Child said:
All religions are fundamentally nuts - all based on different fairy stories - is that insulting or racist?
I say old chap! That's a bit of a sweeping statement is it not?If you believe in fairy stories of whichever brand then you might be offended
Edited by drainbrain on Friday 20th October 21:21
limpsfield said:
JonChalk said:
Here's an idea....., it's a little left-field / radical.......
Close the non-technical / non-car-related forum sections.
There said it.
1. Fewer vitriol-based threads means proper moderation of the remaining ones.
2. The trolls / abusers will stand out more by trying to bring their approach to life into a discussion on the comparative merits of the 89 vs 90 Fiesta front bumper.
3. When they do, it will clearly be off-topic.
4. PH returns to a car-themed forum.
Ta-da.
Who said rose-tinted, nostalgia-based, living in the past was a bad thing ;-)
It would be a terrible business decision. PH is mumsnet for blokes. Imagine the traffic drop if it was just cars. Close the non-technical / non-car-related forum sections.
There said it.
1. Fewer vitriol-based threads means proper moderation of the remaining ones.
2. The trolls / abusers will stand out more by trying to bring their approach to life into a discussion on the comparative merits of the 89 vs 90 Fiesta front bumper.
3. When they do, it will clearly be off-topic.
4. PH returns to a car-themed forum.
Ta-da.
Who said rose-tinted, nostalgia-based, living in the past was a bad thing ;-)
It does need better moderation though. Although, the same old tiresome, racist, sexist drivel from the same old tiresome racists and sexists does keep me, and I am sure others. coming back.
Apropos of nothing - whatever happened to don4l? I used to read every thread that crazy f
ker posted in. Edited by limpsfield on Friday 20th October 20:55
Not sure this place is in any significant way racist, sexist, or any other way ist. I am very anti prejudice of any type, and I can't recall having ever been upset at anything I've read, in that respect.
For such a bloke centric forum PH's is surprisingly none homophobic too. One of my oldest and closest friends is gay, so gay bashing/ gay name calling really offends me likewise.
limpsfield said:
It would be a terrible business decision. PH is mumsnet for blokes. Imagine the traffic drop if it was just cars.
It does need better moderation though. Although, the same old tiresome, racist, sexist drivel from the same old tiresome racists and sexists does keep me, and I am sure others. coming back.
Apropos of nothing - whatever happened to don4l? I used to read every thread that crazy fker posted in.
Agreed that going purely-bearding would be insane... but it'd be nice to segregate all the non-bearding comments more strictly to their own bit of the board instead of letting them ooze all over the car sections.It does need better moderation though. Although, the same old tiresome, racist, sexist drivel from the same old tiresome racists and sexists does keep me, and I am sure others. coming back.
Apropos of nothing - whatever happened to don4l? I used to read every thread that crazy f
ker posted in. Edited by limpsfield on Friday 20th October 20:55
Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:
You are spot on Limpsfield. No idea where I recall seeing, but PH is apparently now the no1 uk forum for men.
Not sure this place is in any significant way racist, sexist, or any other way ist. I am very anti prejudice of any type, and I can't recall having ever been upset at anything I've read, in that respect.
For such a bloke centric forum PH's is surprisingly none homophobic too. One of my oldest and closest friends is gay, so gay bashing/ gay name calling really offends me likewise.
Are men particularly homophobic? I don't know anyone who is. I'm sure some are but I think it's wrong to suggest that most are.Not sure this place is in any significant way racist, sexist, or any other way ist. I am very anti prejudice of any type, and I can't recall having ever been upset at anything I've read, in that respect.
For such a bloke centric forum PH's is surprisingly none homophobic too. One of my oldest and closest friends is gay, so gay bashing/ gay name calling really offends me likewise.
4x4Tyke said:
How long are the mods going to allow abusive trolls and bigots to run riot?
They infested NP&E long ago and are now branching out into other sections with their harassment of the posters prepared to stand up to them.
Trolling, abuse and off-topic posts are supposed to be against the rules.
What are you talking about?They infested NP&E long ago and are now branching out into other sections with their harassment of the posters prepared to stand up to them.
Trolling, abuse and off-topic posts are supposed to be against the rules.
Edited by 4x4Tyke on Thursday 19th October 21:52
Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:
Not sure this place is in any significant way racist, sexist, or any other way ist. I am very anti prejudice of any type, and I can't recall having ever been upset at anything I've read, in that respect.
I think this is the rub. There are a handful of posters who see forms of prejudice in anything, and nothing short of writing like a Guardian columnist is going to placate them.A lot of the comments above have suggested PH is a hotbed of racism. I don't see that, I do see comments that are anti immigration or anti multiculturalism, but I don't consider them inherently racist.
If you do, then that'll be why you see racism everywhere.
zarjaz1991 said:
Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:
You are spot on Limpsfield. No idea where I recall seeing, but PH is apparently now the no1 uk forum for men.
Not sure this place is in any significant way racist, sexist, or any other way ist. I am very anti prejudice of any type, and I can't recall having ever been upset at anything I've read, in that respect.
For such a bloke centric forum PH's is surprisingly none homophobic too. One of my oldest and closest friends is gay, so gay bashing/ gay name calling really offends me likewise.
Are men particularly homophobic? I don't know anyone who is. I'm sure some are but I think it's wrong to suggest that most are.Not sure this place is in any significant way racist, sexist, or any other way ist. I am very anti prejudice of any type, and I can't recall having ever been upset at anything I've read, in that respect.
For such a bloke centric forum PH's is surprisingly none homophobic too. One of my oldest and closest friends is gay, so gay bashing/ gay name calling really offends me likewise.
Its an issue with the internet and how people perceive their right to interact with it.
And there are multiple aspects to this...
Trolling (the constant and malicious controlling/stalking/convincing of a single other) - terrible psychological bulllying
"Trolling" (the perception of trolling yet is just someone who has an opinion, argues and sticks to his guns) - human nature
Bad behaviour (swearing, name calling, racism, sexism etc) - speechless as to how this happens in modern society
My approach (as a poster and moderator and owner of a number of forums) is that if i wouldn't say it to someone at work then i wouldn't say it online.
I don't see myself as anonymous and maybe thats the difference.
I bet most of these people aren't actually like this in real life and that split personality is what the internet can bring out.
What i have experienced when some members get out of order is as has been discussed; its normally those who stand up to the behaviours who get the ban due to them "trolling" rather than the bad behaviours that have elicited the response.
bullying and racism and harassment is in the eye of those receiving - not those posting.
on the bad driving thread recently there was someone who referred to a guy getting out of his car as "wearing a dress" whereas it was religious clothing. The guy wearing the "dress" may have been a total muppet but that has nothing to do with his religion.
anyway - i'm glad i've not seen the thread mentioned as i think i'd be the next person to be banned from PH.
we are all humans (apart from the lizard men and Mr D Trump) so why cant we act like it and treat each other with respect
JJ
(ah yes...i was called many names recently for signing off my posts with my nickname...sigh)
And there are multiple aspects to this...
Trolling (the constant and malicious controlling/stalking/convincing of a single other) - terrible psychological bulllying
"Trolling" (the perception of trolling yet is just someone who has an opinion, argues and sticks to his guns) - human nature
Bad behaviour (swearing, name calling, racism, sexism etc) - speechless as to how this happens in modern society
My approach (as a poster and moderator and owner of a number of forums) is that if i wouldn't say it to someone at work then i wouldn't say it online.
I don't see myself as anonymous and maybe thats the difference.
I bet most of these people aren't actually like this in real life and that split personality is what the internet can bring out.
What i have experienced when some members get out of order is as has been discussed; its normally those who stand up to the behaviours who get the ban due to them "trolling" rather than the bad behaviours that have elicited the response.
bullying and racism and harassment is in the eye of those receiving - not those posting.
on the bad driving thread recently there was someone who referred to a guy getting out of his car as "wearing a dress" whereas it was religious clothing. The guy wearing the "dress" may have been a total muppet but that has nothing to do with his religion.
anyway - i'm glad i've not seen the thread mentioned as i think i'd be the next person to be banned from PH.
we are all humans (apart from the lizard men and Mr D Trump) so why cant we act like it and treat each other with respect
JJ
(ah yes...i was called many names recently for signing off my posts with my nickname...sigh)
B'stard Child said:
Gavia said:
WinstonWolf said:
Gavia said:
Funkycoldribena said:
But there is rarely any racism, you might think there is,but there isn't.
Your definition is not one recognised by people in general.
You consistently post this without clarifying it. It’s clear that you’re claiming that Islam isn’t a race and therefore you can’t be racist by insulting them. Your definition is not one recognised by people in general.
You might not recognise it as racism, many people do and most importantly the law of the land recognises it as such.
However, if you believe it is acceptable then why not say it explicitly instead of hiding behind inference.
All religions are fundamentally nuts - all based on different fairy stories - is that insulting or racist?
First, the NPE insults are not usually directed at the institution or construct of Islam itself, they are directed at the human adherents to Islam. It’s those people, en masse, who are clumped together as a single group.
Secondly if the best retort is “it’s not racist, it’s only bigoted” (which is where the argument ends up going), it’s time to pack up and go home.
NPE seems to bring out the worst in some posters. There’s the perceived freedom to post something that the poster would almost certainly never say in company in real life; the polarising of responses towards two ends of a spectrum with rarely any middle ground on show; the name calling; the deliberate and sometimes successful attempts to get under someone else’s skin; the claim that using the report button is akin to running to teacher or running to mummy; and the waves of banned posters who simply invent a new user name and return, maintaining the cycle.
It would be interesting to see whether NPE calmed down if posters’ anonymity were to be removed - either completely or upon a ban. I’d guess yes (yes it really is infested with sad loners posting from dark and dreary bedsits, which I doubt).
Greg66 said:
This is all dancing on the head of a pin.
First, the NPE insults are not usually directed at the institution or construct of Islam itself, they are directed at the human adherents to Islam. It’s those people, en masse, who are clumped together as a single group.
Secondly if the best retort is “it’s not racist, it’s only bigoted” (which is where the argument ends up going), it’s time to pack up and go home.
NPE seems to bring out the worst in some posters. There’s the perceived freedom to post something that the poster would almost certainly never say in company in real life; the polarising of responses towards two ends of a spectrum with rarely any middle ground on show; the name calling; the deliberate and sometimes successful attempts to get under someone else’s skin; the claim that using the report button is akin to running to teacher or running to mummy; and the waves of banned posters who simply invent a new user name and return, maintaining the cycle.
It would be interesting to see whether NPE calmed down if posters’ anonymity were to be removed - either completely or upon a ban. I’d guess yes (yes it really is infested with sad loners posting from dark and dreary bedsits, which I doubt).
I'm not going to get into any slanging match with you but its all a bit hypocritical when you're quite a large reason a lot of posters have left the Trump thread for example.First, the NPE insults are not usually directed at the institution or construct of Islam itself, they are directed at the human adherents to Islam. It’s those people, en masse, who are clumped together as a single group.
Secondly if the best retort is “it’s not racist, it’s only bigoted” (which is where the argument ends up going), it’s time to pack up and go home.
NPE seems to bring out the worst in some posters. There’s the perceived freedom to post something that the poster would almost certainly never say in company in real life; the polarising of responses towards two ends of a spectrum with rarely any middle ground on show; the name calling; the deliberate and sometimes successful attempts to get under someone else’s skin; the claim that using the report button is akin to running to teacher or running to mummy; and the waves of banned posters who simply invent a new user name and return, maintaining the cycle.
It would be interesting to see whether NPE calmed down if posters’ anonymity were to be removed - either completely or upon a ban. I’d guess yes (yes it really is infested with sad loners posting from dark and dreary bedsits, which I doubt).
You're guilty as hell of trying to get under peoples skin and name calling.
Funkycoldribena said:
I'm not going to get into any slanging match with you but its all a bit hypocritical when you're quite a large reason a lot of posters have left the Trump thread for example.
You're guilty as hell of trying to get under peoples skin and name calling.
And again, yet another post aimed at the individual, rather than the topic. You're guilty as hell of trying to get under peoples skin and name calling.
Funkycoldribena said:
I'm not going to get into any slanging match with you but its all a bit hypocritical when you're quite a large reason a lot of posters have left the Trump thread for example.
You're guilty as hell of trying to get under peoples skin and name calling.
Well yes that and the fact that loads of you got banned from the last trump thread. You're guilty as hell of trying to get under peoples skin and name calling.
Greg66 said:
the deliberate and sometimes successful attempts to get under someone else’s skin;
I am afraid to say, Greg, that your name is amongst the first I think of when I consider people who are deliberately trying to wind others up on NPE. You make some good contributions but it's outweighed by the amount of times your default position in a thread with which you don't agree is belittlement.I don't have any dog in this fight, as it were, but that's how I see it.
ETA: You seem like an otherwise nice chap, maybe it's because you're a professional arguer!
Edited by Tankrizzo on Saturday 21st October 11:10
Funkycoldribena said:
I'm not going to get into any slanging match with you but its all a bit hypocritical when you're quite a large reason a lot of posters have left the Trump thread for example.
You're guilty as hell of trying to get under peoples skin and name calling.
I am happy to keep this at sub-slanging level. You're guilty as hell of trying to get under peoples skin and name calling.
To say posters "have left" the Trump thread is disingenuous in the extreme. You, and a few others, were populating that thread with snarky one liners. You (collectively) were not there to debate or discuss, and when called upon to actually do so, flatly refused. This was just after the new guidelines were published, and you (collectively) were falling foul of them.
I reported you and a few others. As you may know, mods don't usually act on single reports. So I infer that I wasn't the only one reporting you and the others. Some posters got banned from that volume of the thread, and discussion resumed.
If you think I'm deliberately trying to get under someone's skin, or name calling, and it's all unjustified, report me. If you're of the viewpoint that is that reporting is for sissies, fine, just don't complain about reportable behaviours in the same breath.
Tankrizzo said:
I am afraid to say, Greg, that your name is amongst the first I think of when I consider people who are deliberately trying to wind others up on NPE. You make some good contributions but it's outweighed by the amount of times your default position in a thread with which you don't agree is belittlement.
I don't have any dog in this fight, as it were, but that's how I see it.
ETA: You seem like an otherwise nice chap, maybe it's because you're a professional arguer!
And there was me thinking I was all covert an' everything...I don't have any dog in this fight, as it were, but that's how I see it.
ETA: You seem like an otherwise nice chap, maybe it's because you're a professional arguer!
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 21st October 11:10
I don't disagree that I go for belittlement. Possibly too often, but that's a subjective call. It's borne of frustration - some people, and I don't want to name anyone (but powerstroke is who I am thinking of - that's powerstroke, in case anyone was wondering who I had in mind) come out with some stuff that is such utter drivel that it is really beyond rational discussion. As if in a class, the question was what is 7 x 8, and some kid says "a christmas tree".
It's really symptomatic of what the internet has become. It should, in an ideal world, be a repository of reliable knowledge. Instead it is vast warehouse or porn, cat videos, and opinions of people who have access to a keyboard. And I am not especially sorry to say that whilst everyone is entitled to an opinion, not eveyone's opinion has equal worth. Typing on a screen so it looks just like something on (say) wikipedia doesn't give it value.
ETA: I didn't really intend to claim that I was serenely above those behaviours I pointed out. I think NPE sometimes brings out if not the worst in me, then certainly not the best - sometimes.
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 21st October 11:36
Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:
I meant more in a bravado/ macho way. 'Don't be so gay', 'you'd have to be a homo to...', that sort of thing. There was no intention of suggesting most are.
Hmm I don't even know anyone who uses such phrases. among anyone I know, that sort of thing just isn't something anybody would say, it's just disrespectful.Mind you, I'm certainly not macho, and bravado really isn't my thing, so perhaps I'm not the best person to ask.
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