Abusive Trolls and Bigots

[Todd Bonzalez]

Just ban any dipst who clearly has no interest in cars and is here for the far right jack off fest. It's supposed to be a car forum isn't it. Pathetic that the moderators are upset over a bit of swearing but not avocation of genocide tbh. The internet is stupid.

[FredClogs]

Not being able to post in N,P&E has been a real boost to me, not only to my productivity at work but also my general sense of well being with the world, as they say, lie down with dogs, wake up with fleas.

I realize it's hard at first but try to just not go there, or have a final blow out and get yourself banned, you won't look back...

[zarjaz1991]

Johnnytheboy said:

I think people are talking about two different things here:

1. People who are just abusive
2. People whose opinions we don't agree with (even to the point where those opinions are considered offensive)

I have reported people for item 1 - one the other day - when someone has just started dishing out insults from a standing start, but I've never done so for item 2. I think the best answer to opinions you disagree with is to argue back, but I do understand that there's a point when offensive becomes illegal these days. Then report!

This is a valid point, I see a lot of people - here and elsewhere - who shout people down for being "offensive", when what they actually mean is, they see their own opinion as being the only reasonable one anybody could have and thus anyone who disagrees is being 'offensive', 'racist', or whatever.

That said, there are people won here who do - *in my view* - cross the line at times, but I don't get het up about it, it says more about them than me. And the staff here can't possibly police every single post. Even if they did, deleting something often causes just as much outrage as the original post.

My advice on forums is always the same:

1. Understand that people may have different opinions to you, and sometimes you might find those opinions distasteful.
2. Don't try and get everything you disagree with deleted. That's not how forms - or life - works.

[xjay1337]

zarjaz1991 said:

This is a valid point, I see a lot of people - here and elsewhere - who shout people down for being "offensive", when what they actually mean is, they see their own opinion as being the only reasonable one anybody could have and thus anyone who disagrees is being 'offensive', 'racist', or whatever.

That said, there are people won here who do - *in my view* - cross the line at times, but I don't get het up about it, it says more about them than me. And the staff here can't possibly police every single post. Even if they did, deleting something often causes just as much outrage as the original post.

My advice on forums is always the same:

1. Understand that people may have different opinions to you, and sometimes you might find those opinions distasteful.
2. Don't try and get everything you disagree with deleted. That's not how forms - or life - works.

I would tend to agree with this.

Even TooMany2CV, who i think is a right .......... I don't think he should be banned. :lol:

[zarjaz1991]

xjay1337 said:

I would tend to agree with this.

Even TooMany2CV, who i think is a right .......... I don't think he should be banned. :lol:

With some exceptions where stuff strays outside the law I always prefer to see people's views, however distasteful.

For a commercial company like Haymarket they have to consider their commercial reputation as well, which is why some stuff that isn't actually illegal may get removed.

Clearly there are people who overstep the mark, but far too often I see demands for post removals and banning when all that's really happened is someone has posted a forthright opinion that a lot of people vehemently disagree with.

Things get heated on forums like NP&E and from my vast experience of online forums I can state categorically you will NEVER get rid of that, short of shutting that type of forum completely. Any forum discussion politics or religion is going to end up with this problem.

Also worth remembering for every post a moderator deletes there'll be someone else screaming 'censorship', which is equally flawed.

I've always found it funny. I'm 25 and have been involved in online forums for over a decade. For most of that time I have found many people more than twice my age who appear to lack any sort of maturity or life experience!

[SantaBarbara]

You get Clashes of Personality on Forums just the same as in an office or barracks.

Some people are too quick with the snide insults, I find.

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

xjay1337 said:

zarjaz1991 said:

This is a valid point, I see a lot of people - here and elsewhere - who shout people down for being "offensive", when what they actually mean is, they see their own opinion as being the only reasonable one anybody could have and thus anyone who disagrees is being 'offensive', 'racist', or whatever.

That said, there are people won here who do - *in my view* - cross the line at times, but I don't get het up about it, it says more about them than me. And the staff here can't possibly police every single post. Even if they did, deleting something often causes just as much outrage as the original post.

My advice on forums is always the same:

1. Understand that people may have different opinions to you, and sometimes you might find those opinions distasteful.
2. Don't try and get everything you disagree with deleted. That's not how forms - or life - works.

I would tend to agree with this.

Even TooMany2CV, who i think is a right .......... I don't think he should be banned. :lol:

I'd disagree with you on this one Jay, he simply spews his bile across any thread he 'contributes' to. Often going far too far.

I'm actually surprised he's not shown up on this thread so far!

[zarjaz1991]

Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:

I'd disagree with you on this one Jay, he simply spews his bile across any thread he 'contributes' to. Often going far too far.

I'm actually surprised he's not shown up on this thread so far!

Who defines what is 'bile' and who defines what is 'too far'?

[FourWheelDrift]

Gavia said:

Well said.

I’ve reported several posts today from SP&L that are quite disgusting, yet they remain there.

Based on yesterday as that's when you posted the above.

Incorrect. You only reported one in the "Supercar hire car drivers? Tougher restrictions needed?" thread and it had gone by 15:37.

[anonymous-user]

FourWheelDrift said:

Gavia said:

Well said.

I’ve reported several posts today from SP&L that are quite disgusting, yet they remain there.

Based on yesterday as that's when you posted the above.

Incorrect. You only reported one in the "Supercar hire car drivers? Tougher restrictions needed?" thread and it had gone by 15:37.

[zarjaz1991]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Yes, and people use their own creative interpretations of that to try and censor opinions they don't like.

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

zarjaz1991 said:

Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:

I'd disagree with you on this one Jay, he simply spews his bile across any thread he 'contributes' to. Often going far too far.

I'm actually surprised he's not shown up on this thread so far!

Who defines what is 'bile' and who defines what is 'too far'?

I'd suggest the dictionary definition of the word is well documented. If you're taking the angle of fact v opinion, it is my opinion. You are allowed a different opinion, as we all are.

[Johnnytheboy]

zarjaz1991 said:

Johnnytheboy said:

I think people are talking about two different things here:

1. People who are just abusive
2. People whose opinions we don't agree with (even to the point where those opinions are considered offensive)

I have reported people for item 1 - one the other day - when someone has just started dishing out insults from a standing start, but I've never done so for item 2. I think the best answer to opinions you disagree with is to argue back, but I do understand that there's a point when offensive becomes illegal these days. Then report!

This is a valid point, I see a lot of people - here and elsewhere - who shout people down for being "offensive", when what they actually mean is, they see their own opinion as being the only reasonable one anybody could have and thus anyone who disagrees is being 'offensive', 'racist', or whatever.

That said, there are people won here who do - *in my view* - cross the line at times, but I don't get het up about it, it says more about them than me. And the staff here can't possibly police every single post. Even if they did, deleting something often causes just as much outrage as the original post.

My advice on forums is always the same:

1. Understand that people may have different opinions to you, and sometimes you might find those opinions distasteful.
2. Don't try and get everything you disagree with deleted. That's not how forms - or life - works.

In practice my point 2 is "what Haymarket say is ok". In my view it should probably "what is considered ok by the law".

I very rarely if ever am offended by other people's opinions (i.e. point 2); debate is good!

I get very annoyed by the same handful of posters who jump down people's throats in every thread they participate in.

I got called a "stupid tt" the other day for suggesting a large American engine was comically underpowered in (what I thought was) a humourous tone. It wouldn't surprise anyone if I named the poster involved.

[Johnnytheboy]

Here's a classic example:

Bankquay said:

agtlaw said:

There's an explanation here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVdjZE2YhLE

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
Not only do you look funny but you are fu**'in funny.

Now have a look at Bankquay's entire posting history and it's more or less the same. Never noticed them before.

[anonymous-user]

zarjaz1991 said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Yes, and people use their own creative interpretations of that to try and censor opinions they don't like.

But that’s not defining what’s acceptable. You or I can’t censor anything.

If I report your post, the mods will completely ignore it.

[Tom Logan]

There are some posters who seem to be on some kind of 'faux moral crusade' to try and suppress opinions which don't tally with their own, screaming and stamping their feet like children if the contrary posters aren't sanctioned.

This is real life, sometimes you will read/hear things which you may consider distasteful for whatever reason you choose, get over it, words on a computer screen don't hurt.

I sometimes wonder how some here manage to cope with everyday normal life, it must be hellish getting up in the morning wondering what is going to burst your head open first, will it be white van man? an aggressive cyclist? a PH poster?

[zarjaz1991]

El stovey said:

But that’s not defining what’s acceptable. You or I can’t censor anything.

If I report your post, the mods will completely ignore it.

Yes but reporting a post is trying to censor it.

Sure it may not succeed, but it's an attempt at censorship.

I prefer to start from the position that I'd rather see people's opinions, however offensive. I don't want or need other people - be they fellow posters or Haymarket staff - deciding what's good for me.

Obviously the caveat to that is that Haymarket have a right to censor whatever they like and sometimes they need to and I am fine with that. However the position I always start from is that I don't want protecting from other people's opinions. I'm a big boy now.

[Gavia]

FourWheelDrift said:

Gavia said:

Well said.

I’ve reported several posts today from SP&L that are quite disgusting, yet they remain there.

Based on yesterday as that's when you posted the above.

Incorrect. You only reported one in the "Supercar hire car drivers? Tougher restrictions needed?" thread and it had gone by 15:37.

Are you a mod? It seems strange that you’d choose to share this info if so. However, I also reported another post and that’s gone this morning too. Why haven’t you shared the info of reported posts by the OP of this thread?

Back to the wider question though. If I’m such a snowflake then why are the mods agreeing with me and removing the posts? If nothing else it proves the point made by the OP that there is now a spread of NP&E style posting

[zarjaz1991]

Tom Logan said:

There are some posters who seem to be on some kind of 'faux moral crusade' to try and suppress opinions which don't tally with their own, screaming and stamping their feet like children if the contrary posters aren't sanctioned.

This is real life, sometimes you will read/hear things which you may consider distasteful for whatever reason you choose, get over it, words on a computer screen don't hurt.

I sometimes wonder how some here manage to cope with everyday normal life, it must be hellish getting up in the morning wondering what is going to burst your head open first, will it be white van man? an aggressive cyclist? a PH poster?

Agree 100%.

[Gavia]

Tom Logan said:

There are some posters who seem to be on some kind of 'faux moral crusade' to try and suppress opinions which don't tally with their own, screaming and stamping their feet like children if the contrary posters aren't sanctioned.

This is real life, sometimes you will read/hear things which you may consider distasteful for whatever reason you choose, get over it, words on a computer screen don't hurt.

I sometimes wonder how some here manage to cope with everyday normal life, it must be hellish getting up in the morning wondering what is going to burst your head open first, will it be white van man? an aggressive cyclist? a PH poster?

Why is it faux?

Why do you go to the extreme of picturing people stamping and screaming when nothing could be further from reality?

Why do you think they’re some sort of delicate little flower?

You seem to have his view that all the alt-right hardmen in NP&E are hewn from granite and eat nails dipped in Red Bull for breakfast, whereas everyone who disagrees with them is an 8 stone weakling who’s scared of their own shadow. Guess what? Your stereotypes are a long way wide of the mark.