News, Politics & Economic forum rule review

News, Politics & Economic forum rule review

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acer12

Original Poster:

959 posts

173 months

Thursday 16th June 2022
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Now that this this rule has been live for a few months will it be reviewed to see if the desired outcome has been met.

To start, I get it that this is a motoring site and you would prefer not to have to deal with the toxic threads on the politics forum as they only drag the site down.

I am a regular reader and occasional poster so coming from the perspective of someone who enjoys following a thread for the rich contributions of a varied mix of posters most of whom also come with a car background, I understand that this annoys some other posters who only want hyper posters and this rule is ideal at catering to these hyper posters. I would think that there are lots of others like me and the site needs them as we too bring revenue through clicks etc.

So my feedback is that this sub-forum has become more toxic than before the rule change. There has been an exodus of knowledgeable middleground posters who either don't have enough posts or simply cant be bothered anymore and instead we are left with a handful of hardline posters dominating threads. These hardline posters seem to have endless time to dedicate to forcing their view down peoples troats in a very unfriendly manner or arguing amongst themselves. Yes these posters existed before the rule but they stand out much more as there are fewer non hardliners posting. The petty arguments between posters has gotten beyond a joke, each day these posters exchange 10s of tearing into each other repeating the same old crap. Id say I click into the politics site around 80% less than I used to and lately leave quickly as the quality is so poor.

Again, I get that this is a motoring site and this makes mods lives easier in regards to new regs, but through this rule change a previously mildly toxic section has turned into an absolute cesspit. If as you say you want to promote motor chat, why not just close this section down and let other users use reddit etc, to me this would make more sense?

Similar to how previous threads questioning this rule has gone, I am 90% expecting a mod to come along and just say shut up, not for debate and lock the thread and point me to a 3 month old thread which is locked to posting!, but said I would try to give a different perspective.

Edited by acer12 on Thursday 16th June 10:09

saaby93

32,038 posts

177 months

Thursday 16th June 2022
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add to that when posters try to turn it into something personal and make personal attacks because they cant think of another way to respond to the topic.
or if you say something outside their own particular point of view that makes you a deviant weirdo or as said above belonging in the cesspit.

By all means debate issues fairly putting one side or the other
However for the most part, this place is for the good - let's try to keep with that smile

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 16th June 2022
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acer12 said:
So my feedback is that this sub-forum has become more toxic than before the rule change. There has been an exodus of knowledgeable middleground posters who either don't have enough posts or simply cant be bothered anymore and instead we are left with a handful of hardline posters dominating threads. These hardline posters seem to have endless time to dedicate to forcing their view down peoples troats in a very unfriendly manner or arguing amongst themselves. Yes these posters existed before the rule but they stand out much more as there are fewer non hardliners posting. The petty arguments between posters has gotten beyond a joke, each day these posters exchange 10s of tearing into each other repeating the same old crap. Id say I click into the politics site around 80% less than I used to and lately leave quickly as the quality is so poor.
Well said.

Countdown

39,690 posts

195 months

Thursday 16th June 2022
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I think it's improved to be honest. We don't appear to have banned members returning with different pseudonyms.

Nobody is forced to go into NP&E (as far as I'm aware).

Ben Lowden

5,968 posts

176 months

PH Marketing Bloke

PH TEAM

Thursday 16th June 2022
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Thank you for raising. We've seen a reduction in moderation reports and banned members returning, so it seems positive so far.

As the forums are moderated reactively, we rely on members reporting others that are breaking our rules. So if you see members being aggressive/abusive towards each other, please hit the report button so we can take action.

zax

1,008 posts

262 months

Friday 17th June 2022
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OnTheBreadline said:
acer12 said:
So my feedback is that this sub-forum has become more toxic than before the rule change. There has been an exodus of knowledgeable middleground posters who either don't have enough posts or simply cant be bothered anymore and instead we are left with a handful of hardline posters dominating threads. These hardline posters seem to have endless time to dedicate to forcing their view down peoples troats in a very unfriendly manner or arguing amongst themselves. Yes these posters existed before the rule but they stand out much more as there are fewer non hardliners posting. The petty arguments between posters has gotten beyond a joke, each day these posters exchange 10s of tearing into each other repeating the same old crap. Id say I click into the politics site around 80% less than I used to and lately leave quickly as the quality is so poor.
Well said.
Been here quite a while, but as a very irregular poster hadn't experienced the new rule. Now I did. Can't say I agree with the implementation. Given that I tend to post only when I have something relevant to say on a topic where I have direct personal experience I now need to go spam other forum areas to get my post count up or just forget it and leave it to the "hardliners" - a term which I think is very apt. I'll leave it.

Mr Happy

5,694 posts

219 months

Saturday 18th June 2022
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I've noticed the "Run into Anti Pistonheads" thread has been moved from GG to NP&E, but it was started by a new user, so is there an exception whereby people who are new to the site can continue to post in threads like that, or has this thread move effectively silenced the OP and a couple of other contributors?

If it's the latter - that's a bit of a bad show, it's like saying "that looks like a nice topic you've got there, I think we'll take it from here..."

saaby93

32,038 posts

177 months

Saturday 18th June 2022
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Mr Happy said:
I've noticed the "Run into Anti Pistonheads" thread has been moved from GG to NP&E, but it was started by a new user, so is there an exception whereby people who are new to the site can continue to post in threads like that, or has this thread move effectively silenced the OP and a couple of other contributors?

If it's the latter - that's a bit of a bad show, it's like saying "that looks like a nice topic you've got there, I think we'll take it from here..."
That happens when threads are moved into SPL too

Johnnytheboy

24,498 posts

185 months

Saturday 18th June 2022
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I think it's had a negative effect in some ways.

Noticeably the Ukraine thread has far fewer links to stories about what's going on in Ukraine, and more high-volume posters arguing about whether or not it's Germany's fault.

There was a separate thread called 'military losses in Ukraine' or something, which was instantly killed as the OP was under 1,000 posts.

I don't argue with the principle but I think it needs tweaking.

500 posts?

Or 1,000 post rule applied to new posters if they get reported in NPE?

MG-FIDO

448 posts

236 months

Tuesday 5th July 2022
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I'm another long term member who came here originally in my teens as TVR fan who dreamt of owning cars. Over the following 20 years I've enjoyed reading threads and have bought an MGB, an MX5 from one of the moderators whose wife used to run the Pistonheads shop back in the early days and in 2018 finally managed to buy the TVR Griffith I used to come here to dream about.

Now as well as enjoying the TVR section of this website and to a lesser extent general gassing, readers cars and the classic sections, I've grown to enjoy the wealth of knowledge members share in sub sections of this website that I took no notice of in my early years here. I too have collected a pool of knowledge about a few fields- I've been to university 3 times since joining the website, have worked in investment banking and as a doctor, but generally stick to reading what others have written unless I've got a specific question or something to contribute that others haven't already covered.

Now we're lucky here that there are posters who are experts in their fields or passionate about a subject and post regularly about them. However, I disagree with the idea that some of the posters here who pad out threads with nonsense or throw opinions around at the drop of a hat (often without much substance) are somehow deemed more worthy of being able to contribute to the NP&E sub forum than those who perhaps think about what they're reading and weigh up whether they've got something worth adding before they contribute.

For me this website has been a big part of my life, perhaps too big a part, but I didn't appreciate finding I'd been excluded from one of the areas I spend time in these days when one of those rare occasions that I felt I had something worth contributing arose. As a case in point I was unable to politely provide some relevant work related facts in response to a post from a well known opinionated padder who, as he often does, was being very vocal about a topic he knows very little about- I'm sure it's no great loss to the website, but there must be other posters who have something valuable to add to debates but don't feel the need to reply to every thread they read and as a result don't meet the 1000 post criteria.

I'd go so far as to say that long term members with low post counts are probably not the people regularly creating inflammatory posts. I'd also add that I'm not surprised that the number of moderation reports has decreased, I'd hazard a guess that that's because there are far fewer members accessing this part of the site rather than a requirement for 1000 posts having weaned out an undesirable element. I'd also suggest that the need to be a member for over a year alone, rather than the need to have created 1000 posts would be enough to stop the return of banned members.

In the 20 odd years I've been coming here, I don't think I've ever become excessively passionate or upset people, I'd certainly say that despite only posting a few hundred times, I'm well aware of "our rules and how our forums operate".

saaby93

32,038 posts

177 months

Tuesday 5th July 2022
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acer12 said:
So my feedback is that this sub-forum has become more toxic than before the rule change. There has been an exodus of knowledgeable middleground posters who either don't have enough posts or simply cant be bothered anymore and instead we are left with a handful of hardline posters dominating threads. These hardline posters seem to have endless time to dedicate to forcing their view down peoples troats in a very unfriendly manner or arguing amongst themselves.
Surely threads benefit from fresh posters and yes there is still seems too much going for the person rather than discussing the topic.
There must be a different way?

easyhome

179 posts

122 months

Wednesday 6th July 2022
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I’d like to complain about this ridiculous 1000 post rule. I’ve only just discovered this, as I wanted to offer some info regarding a question asked by some in the USA mass shootings thread.

As you can see, I’ve been a member for some years now, but I don’t post that often. A 1000 posts seems a bizarrely high number to me.

I can’t see much point in even looking at the threads in NP&E anymore if I’m not going to be able to offer anything to them.

Edited by easyhome on Wednesday 6th July 20:29

Monkeylegend

26,226 posts

230 months

Wednesday 6th July 2022
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easyhome said:
I’d like to complain about this ridiculous 1000 post rule. I’ve only just discovered this, as I wanted to offer some info regarding a question asked by some in the USA mass shootings thread.

As you can see, I’ve been a member for some years now, but I don’t post that often. A 1000 posts seems a bizarrely high number to me.

I can’t see much point in even looking at the threads in NP&E anymore if I’m not going to be able to offer anything to them.

Edited by easyhome on Wednesday 6th July 20:29
To be fair your post count suggests you haven't offered that much to date.

easyhome

179 posts

122 months

Wednesday 6th July 2022
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Monkeylegend said:
easyhome said:
I’d like to complain about this ridiculous 1000 post rule. I’ve only just discovered this, as I wanted to offer some info regarding a question asked by some in the USA mass shootings thread.

As you can see, I’ve been a member for some years now, but I don’t post that often. A 1000 posts seems a bizarrely high number to me.

I can’t see much point in even looking at the threads in NP&E anymore if I’m not going to be able to offer anything to them.

Edited by easyhome on Wednesday 6th July 20:29
To be fair your post count suggests you haven't offered that much to date.
That’s because I don’t spend every waking minute on here, so usually by the time I read a thread someone else has already posted what I would want to say. I don’t feel the need to say ‘me too’ or ‘I agree’ just to build up my post count.

Clockwork Cupcake

74,402 posts

271 months

Wednesday 6th July 2022
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easyhome said:
That’s because I don’t spend every waking minute on here, so usually by the time I read a thread someone else has already posted what I would want to say. I don’t feel the need to say ‘me too’ or ‘I agree’ just to build up my post count.
Not having a pop at you as such, but maybe you should get off your high horse a bit and contribute more?

You make it sound like you think your potential replies in NP&E would be so important and worthwhile that you should be granted special dispensation to make them. Whereas it seems more the case that you don't really have that much to contribute if you can't find anything extra to add other than a self-censored "me too".

Clockwork Cupcake

74,402 posts

271 months

Wednesday 6th July 2022
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The inverse snobbery of people with a low post count saying they have more important things to do than post really does amuse me, I have to say.

(Deliberately not quoting anyone as I am making a general comment rather then directing it at any specific poster)


easyhome

179 posts

122 months

Wednesday 6th July 2022
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Clockwork Cupcake said:
easyhome said:
That’s because I don’t spend every waking minute on here, so usually by the time I read a thread someone else has already posted what I would want to say. I don’t feel the need to say ‘me too’ or ‘I agree’ just to build up my post count.
Not having a pop at you as such, but maybe you should get off your high horse a bit and contribute more?

You make it sound like you think your potential replies in NP&E would be so important and worthwhile that you should be granted special dispensation to make them. Whereas it seems more the case that you don't really have that much to contribute if you can't find anything extra to add other than a self-censored "me too".
Not quite sure how I come off as being on my high horse?! If I see a thread where I think I’ve got something to add, I’ll do so.

The only reason I found out about this rule was because in the thread about US mass shootings there was a question regarding why someone wearing a Pride T-shirt would be carrying a AR-15 to a protest, no one had answered so I was going to post a link to an article about the growing number of liberals in the US who are choosing to arm themselves.

I’m not arguing for special dispensation, just pointing out that IMO the 1000 post rule seems bizarre.



easyhome

179 posts

122 months

Wednesday 6th July 2022
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Clockwork Cupcake said:
The inverse snobbery of people with a low post count saying they have more important things to do than post really does amuse me, I have to say.

(Deliberately not quoting anyone as I am making a general comment rather then directing it at any specific poster)
I’m not sure how saying I don’t spend every waking minute on here comes across as saying I have more important things to do? Just that I don’t come on every day, so often most of a thread has been talked to death by the time I see it.


Clockwork Cupcake

74,402 posts

271 months

Wednesday 6th July 2022
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easyhome said:
I’m not sure how saying I don’t spend every waking minute on here comes across as saying I have more important things to do? Just that I don’t come on every day, so often most of a thread has been talked to death by the time I see it.
I'm not sure how I could have been any more explicit in stressing that I was not directing that directly at you.

easyhome

179 posts

122 months

Wednesday 6th July 2022
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You were very explicit, but the timing suggests otherwise.
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