We're changing how you log in to PistonHeads

[Dave Hedgehog]

cough proton mail cough

[sunbeam alpine]

donkmeister said:

Mods, does this mean users will be able to track down the email address of another user? Just standard paranoia rather than donning my tinfoil hat.

This needs answering as I've used my main e-mail address on my account. Should I create a throw-away one?

[zarjaz1991]

119 said:

Read as, we are changing to a cheaper alternative

I thought the current system was in-house and custom.

Possibly they are integrating a third party authentication system for improved security, or maybe they’ve written a new one in house.

Login security is not something to get wrong these days, and if the current one is very old it may flag up as a risk on a security audit.

Scott

[zarjaz1991]

sunbeam alpine said:

This needs answering as I've used my main e-mail address on my account. Should I create a throw-away one?

It’s vanishingly unlikely. Usernames will be email addresses but the forum display name will still be as it is, would be my prediction. Exposing people’s email addresses like that on purpose isn’t something that anyone would do.

Scott

[CoolHands]

Presumably makes the user list more genuine and have increased value to advertisers. Perhaps allows better cross website tracking for them etc.

[zarjaz1991]

Being an IT person but also someone who’s run a few forums over the years, I’d hazard a guess that the “safeguarding” thing is related to the fact that someone can suddenly start using a completely different forum name without it being easily obvious who they used to be. This can lead to harassment and bullying issues.

Additionally I don’t know if it’s still the case but PH used to have people aged as young as 13 posting on here, certainly 15 and 16 year olds were quite common at one point as they started to think about cars and driving for when they turned 17. I haven’t seen any of that age for quite some time though. Not sure if it still happens.

Scott

[TheJimi]

zarjaz1991 said:

Being an IT person but also someone who s run a few forums over the years, I d hazard a guess that the safeguarding thing is related to the fact that someone can suddenly start using a completely different forum name without it being easily obvious who they used to be. This can lead to harassment and bullying issues.

Additionally I don t know if it s still the case but PH used to have people aged as young as 13 posting on here, certainly 15 and 16 year olds were quite common at one point as they started to think about cars and driving for when they turned 17. I haven t seen any of that age for quite some time though. Not sure if it still happens.

Scott

If someone changes their username, the new name starts from the point of change. Their previous posts will still be under the old username.

In that regard, there's essentially an easily tracked audit trail of an individual's username history.

So the idea of increased "safeguarding" in that context nonsense, imo.

Edited by TheJimi on Sunday 14th September 09:16

[CoolHands]

zarjaz1991 said:

, I d hazard a guess that the safeguarding thing is related to the fact that someone can suddenly start using a completely different forum name without it being easily obvious who they used to be. This can lead to harassment and bullying issues.

I noticed bhstewie just changed his username

[Newc]

RSTurboPaul said:

My Tin Foil Hat wonders if this may be about effectively removing accounts with no valid email address, thus reducing the ability to post anonymously.

Which may or may not tie in with us being forced to log in with our government-issued, mandatory Digital ID at some point in the future.

AIUI the Online Safety stuff will require all forums to verify users' IDs starting next year. So this might be a change driven by a back end technical update, but there's a legal requirement coming down the track too.

[zarjaz1991]

TheJimi said:

If someone changes their username, the new name starts from the point of change. Their previous posts will still be under the old username.

In that regard, there's essentially an easily tracked audit trail of an individual's username history.

That s true but unless you go looking you won t know.

Some forums have a system where previous usernames (or at least the most recent) are listed under the current username in smaller text so you instantly know who you re dealing with.

Scott

[zarjaz1991]

CoolHands said:

I noticed bhstewie just changed his username

Yeah he’s actually referred to this thread as being the reason for that. Can’t get used to it, it looks like someone impersonating him!

Scott

[119]

Newc said:

RSTurboPaul said:

My Tin Foil Hat wonders if this may be about effectively removing accounts with no valid email address, thus reducing the ability to post anonymously.

Which may or may not tie in with us being forced to log in with our government-issued, mandatory Digital ID at some point in the future.

AIUI the Online Safety stuff will require all forums to verify users' IDs starting next year. So this might be a change driven by a back end technical update, but there's a legal requirement coming down the track too.

Looks like PH is going to lose a few members then.

[zarjaz1991]

Newc said:

AIUI the Online Safety stuff will require all forums to verify users' IDs starting next year. So this might be a change driven by a back end technical update, but there's a legal requirement coming down the track too.

Yes this requirement is going to kill off a lot of smaller hobby forums, as if Facebook and Twitter hadn t killed most of them off already.
Part of the government s continuing agenda to drive revenue away from small operators into the hands of global corporations.

Scott

[RSTurboPaul]

119 said:

Newc said:

RSTurboPaul said:

My Tin Foil Hat wonders if this may be about effectively removing accounts with no valid email address, thus reducing the ability to post anonymously.

Which may or may not tie in with us being forced to log in with our government-issued, mandatory Digital ID at some point in the future.

AIUI the Online Safety stuff will require all forums to verify users' IDs starting next year. So this might be a change driven by a back end technical update, but there's a legal requirement coming down the track too.

Looks like PH is going to lose a few members then.

Agreed.

Anyone who values their privacy may well (be forced to) withdraw from public participation.


There would be less issue if it was effective moving forward only, but the end result will be intrusive data harvesting of 5, 10, 20(!) years of historic forum posts - and therefore users' behaviour, mindset, political choices, stated (legal and illegal) activities and preferences...

...all of which could/would enable a detailed picture to be put together (using minimal hassle, scarily quick AI) that could be used against individuals, whether through traditional targeted advertising, profiling by 'security services', or to help develop some sort of 'social credit score' linked to our Digital ID (like communist China uses to control their population).


I suspect the best way forward would be to abandon an original account and create a new 'blank profile' with a new/dedicated email address, posting only minimally - if at all. And if the latter, one might as well just use it as a 'read only' forum without logging in.

Alternatively, requesting account deletion and 'the right to be forgotten' may be wise - how long before AI can identify one's writing style in a sea of forum data across the internet? It would decimate the forum as a source of historic information, but as Orwell pointed out, removing records of the past is useful to those in power because it removes the frame of reference and creates a focus on the 'now', which is much easier to manipulate.

Although it is of course highly likely that we will 'need' to use Digital ID to access the internet via an ISP, full stop... After all, we can't have any anonymity... 'for our safety'.


A two-tier society, of those that comply and those that live outside the system? How very appropriate for Herr Starmer... although the global coordination suggests this is all being created above any individual national government.

I am sure that the non-participants will be left alone to exist peacefully and definitely won't be painted as dangerous 'untermensch'. You know, like those filthy unvaccinated. Oh, wait...

Edited by RSTurboPaul on Sunday 14th September 11:01

[RSTurboPaul]

Newc said:

AIUI the Online Safety stuff will require all forums to verify users' IDs starting next year. So this might be a change driven by a back end technical update, but there's a legal requirement coming down the track too.

I hope PH will provide advanced notification so people have time to say goodbye.

[InitialDave]

RSTurboPaul said:

Agreed.

Anyone who values their privacy may well (be forced to) withdraw from public participation.


There would be less issue if it was effective moving forward only, but the end result will be intrusive data harvesting of 5, 10, 20(!) years of historic forum posts - and therefore users' behaviour, mindset, political choices, stated (legal and illegal) activities and preferences...

...all of which could/would enable a detailed picture to be put together (using minimal hassle, scarily quick AI) that could be used against individuals, whether through traditional targeted advertising, profiling by 'security services', or to help develop some sort of 'social credit score' linked to our Digital ID (like communist China uses to control their population).


I suspect the best way forward would be to abandon an original account and create a new 'blank profile' with a new/dedicated email address, posting only minimally - if at all. And if the latter, one might as well just use it as a 'read only' forum without logging in.

Alternatively, requesting account deletion and 'the right to be forgotten' may be wise - how long before AI can identify one's writing style in a sea of forum data across the internet? It would decimate the forum as a source of historic information, but as Orwell pointed out, removing records of the past is useful to those in power because it removes the frame of reference and creates a focus on the 'now', which is much easier to manipulate.

Although it is of course highly likely that we will 'need' to use Digital ID to access the internet via an ISP, full stop... After all, we can't have any anonymity... 'for our safety'.


A two-tier society, of those that comply and those that live outside the system? How very appropriate for Herr Starmer... although the global coordination suggests this is all being created above any individual national government.

I am sure that the non-participants will be left alone to exist peacefully and definitely won't be painted as dangerous 'untermensch'. You know, like those filthy unvaccinated. Oh, wait...

Edited by RSTurboPaul on Sunday 14th September 11:01

But your display name will be unchanged. The email address for logging in will still be there. The relationship between the two is still going to be only in PH's backend. People on the "outside" won't be able to relate your posts to an email address any more than they can now. People in some form of officialdom will have no more or less capacity to instruct PH "tell us what that user's email address is" than if it happened with the system as it is structured right now. Same for advertisers buying data etc.

The stuff you're saying you're worried about could happen this afternoon if they wished to.

Edited by InitialDave on Sunday 14th September 11:47

[butchstewie]

This thread has got really weird.

If you're bothered by the changes just change your email address or setup one just for here - but I see nothing here that suggests PistonHeads will know anything about you that they don't already.

[Clockwork Cupcake]

zarjaz1991 said:

Being an IT person but also someone who s run a few forums over the years, I d hazard a guess that the safeguarding thing is related to the fact that someone can suddenly start using a completely different forum name without it being easily obvious who they used to be. This can lead to harassment and bullying issues.

Not easily obvious, but you can go back through their posts via their profile and you will see what their username was at the time of posting on each post. That's invariant.

This really feels like a change that doesn't need to be made. Users are already identified by a unique number (you can see it as part of the URL when you view their profile) so I don't see why usernames need to be fixed in stone.

I have no views on making an email address the primary login feature, other than to say that it is ridiculously easy to create a free email address with outlook.com or google mail or whatever, so this doesn't add any extra level of security whatsoever.

Edited by Clockwork Cupcake on Sunday 14th September 11:41

[InitialDave]

butchstewie said:

This thread has got really weird.

If you're bothered by the changes just change your email address or setup one just for here - but I see nothing here that suggests PistonHeads will know anything about you that they don't already.

Bingo.

As with much of the slightly tinfoil-y stuff people come out with, I think they're just not aware that the mechanics of what they're describing largely exist already anyway.

See also "data harvesting shopping habits from loyalty cards". They already know that stuff and can relate it to you.

[valiant]

119 said:

Looks like PH is going to lose a few members then.

Nonsense!

This place is like crack to some of its users. They may threaten to leave but all that has to happen is for a thread to start on “cycling through red light, is it ok?” or “I think EVs are better than petrol” and they’ll be gnashing their teeth to stumps in not replying. And that’s BEFORE we get to the madness of NP&E.