LP640 roadster manual rhd
Discussion
Holy molly...... now that is some post!!! very useful information posted as well ... especially the conversion to a manual shift .....if i ever go for a lp640.....i would prefer a manual but because of rarity and price....maybe a manual conversion could be an option on an egear car..... serious respect sir!!
lambo666 said:
Holy molly...... now that is some post!!! very useful information posted as well ... especially the conversion to a manual shift .....if i ever go for a lp640.....i would prefer a manual but because of rarity and price....maybe a manual conversion could be an option on an egear car..... serious respect sir!!
I'll be putting a full write up on lambopower.I got told its not possible etc; but a guy on lambo-talk did it to his gallardo (regular office boy/hobyist too). The murci is in fact easier. Its just a huge hunk of junk (i don't mean its bad, its just BIG as in the engine is physically very LARGE, as is the gearbox, as are the exhaust pipes etc- nothing dainty in this car!)- seriously its harder to do this to a regular merc or bmw saloon.
Its changed my view on these cars- I will be selling mine and buying a wrecked one to fix next time as I could have one on the road for half the money, and I'd actually like to do a liberty walk conversion (wide body with air bag suspension), and its not worth doing to a complete going car.
If you go for an LP640, and want to do the manual conversion- i'd give you hand/info on doing it.
The thing is, if you don't live in central london in drive in peak hour traffic, then the e-gear is fine. The reason they wear clutches so fast is simply the fact that they release at about 1800rpm- in stop/go traffic, you never get to this point- if you leave a gap to allow a run up, some asshole (or 3) will jump into the gap just as you're about to engage 1st.... consequently you could (I have been) in a situation where 1st gear is never fully engaged for 45-60min. No you don't smell a burning clutch as the revs are low, but if you do this even weekly, your clutch will be lucky to last 5000miles (forget about doing race-starts!)
On the flip side, the fact that the clutch fails with a few race starts means you never suffer real mechanical failure (box/engine), so there is a mechanical safety aspect to that.
If I lived in a small town/outside of London, I'd keep it e-gear- its LOVELY on the right road; just have a serious think about your usage. My reality is if I'm not careful with timing, it takes me 45-60min in stop/start traffic to get outside of London...
A manual box will always be better for reversing/low speed manoeuvring/traffic, but not as fast at changing gears on a track or twisty B road...
These are actually impressively reliable cars mechanically, its the maintenance that lets them down - old rubber pipes, coolant hoses etc. Also the heat in the engine bay is phenomenal- and oil temp goes up in traffic to what you'd see on hard track day- I fitted an LP640 oil cooler (well dimensions of an LP640, but I had mine custom made, with greater cooling capacity), and added an extra SPAL fan to cool it in traffic (this was the issue for even the LP640- slightly better, but in traffic, there is not enough airflow through the oil cooler duct). You can add the fan to your original cooler if you like.
Edited by SydneySE on Wednesday 3rd December 14:35
Edited by SydneySE on Wednesday 3rd December 17:48
Sydney se.....thank you for this really valuable post
I have now had the unencumbered opportunity of re-reviewing all the current lambo v12's on the market , as well as cars as different as the 1990's Bentley continental T , and have been lucky enough to be able to have a 2nd opportunity at getting the very car that I wanted in August ...a 2005 e gear
I will do a full write up shortly
Reading your post is reassuring
It is good to know that the car is essentially simple and robust
I take on board your comments re proper maintainance
I have now had the unencumbered opportunity of re-reviewing all the current lambo v12's on the market , as well as cars as different as the 1990's Bentley continental T , and have been lucky enough to be able to have a 2nd opportunity at getting the very car that I wanted in August ...a 2005 e gear
I will do a full write up shortly
Reading your post is reassuring
It is good to know that the car is essentially simple and robust
I take on board your comments re proper maintainance
SydneySE said:
Parts can be gotten quite cheap- I replaced the high level brake light (hella part, from an MG TF/Audi A3 etc); the number plate lights where purchased new from an Audi dealer (£16 the pair, with bulbs! LOL). All you do is look at the part, see the numbers stamped on it, and do an internet search, sure enough you'll find what car its from - usually not a lambo....
Agreed, just changed the central locking motor on my LP640 and it turns out that Lamborghini fit a 5 wire universal type as OE!! Cost? less than £5! Sydney SE - what a great story! So I share your pain. I'm considering an early Manual 6.2 and I live in central London! I've had the F1 cars (Challenge Stradale and 599 HGTE) but the box was just wearing me down and hence the manual 6.2.
Anything else I should watch out for? How's parking it in town without camera's/sensors... (how spoilt we have gotten...)
Anything else I should watch out for? How's parking it in town without camera's/sensors... (how spoilt we have gotten...)
Edited by Cars76 on Friday 7th October 21:33
Edited by Cars76 on Friday 7th October 22:15
Reeso said:
I can confirm a few things.
1. The Murcielago (early/640) has Traction Control
2. The Murcielago (early/640) has ESP (there is a button on the centre console, push and hold).
3. You don't need a dampish road to see the TC light appear on the dash.
4. If you leave the aids on, you can slide it, but you need a lot of room. Unlike the Gallardo which is comparatively easy to drift.
5. If you turn the aids off, you can still catch it but you have to have reactions of an F1 driver.
6. Due to the huge levels of grip, you will be doing stupid speeds when it does let go, so save it for the track.
Enjoy.
+1 to the above & my 640 Roadster has ESP1. The Murcielago (early/640) has Traction Control
2. The Murcielago (early/640) has ESP (there is a button on the centre console, push and hold).
3. You don't need a dampish road to see the TC light appear on the dash.
4. If you leave the aids on, you can slide it, but you need a lot of room. Unlike the Gallardo which is comparatively easy to drift.
5. If you turn the aids off, you can still catch it but you have to have reactions of an F1 driver.
6. Due to the huge levels of grip, you will be doing stupid speeds when it does let go, so save it for the track.
Enjoy.
carspath said:
i have been, and am , a great admirer of the murcielago---for its v12, shape and its heritage going back to the countach
but, reading dolittle's posting, and having spoken to a few other EX-owners, and from my own albeit extremelly brief experience, i do wonder if murcie's are difficult long-term ownership propostions ---espcially the e-gear cars?
i understand and accept that these are now old, low volume, hand-built italian supercars, which will always require more than a little bit of attention , but does the murcie fall into that catergory of car, where the electronics/electrical/electro-mechanical items, were just not up to scratch, leading to poor reliability?
clearly these are not every-day cars, but poor reliability, and small but niggling issues ,do mar the overall ownership experience
so, is the murcie inherently unreliable?
And getting the crystal ball out ,will the additional Audi input in the aventador, make it any more reliable, when it is 10 years old?
It would be good to hear the real facts from long-term owners
a lot of murcies seem to change hands within a a year or two
is this a reflection of the sort of people who are attracted to lamborghinis, or a reflection upon murcielagos?
as i said in the paragraph above, it would be really good to hear honest , long term experiences of the murcie, and we would all understand the limitations inherent in a low volume car
I got my Murci back after a full rebuild-restoration earlier this year, went to a few UK car trips in it, then Le Mans in it, no probs (apart from flat battery... operator error), and it needed oil. Straight from there we went on a 10 day blast to Monaco in it, coming back through Italy, Switzerland (the less said about Swiss debacle the better) back into France & home. It drank plenty of oil, but temps were mid 30's and at altitude too, high revs & speeds I can't post publicly. 5000+ miles, being driven hard, all in the space of a few summer months. I was impressed. No issues at all. (the odd temperamental engine management light now & again, but disappears after 6 ignition turns on/off if it can't repeat the fault), and all the other cars we were with were also surprised at it's reliability (although oil consumption was more that the other supercars). Performed like a dream. It has presence, a soul and plenty of theater when you drive it. Always puts a smile on my face. I'm well chuffed with it. but, reading dolittle's posting, and having spoken to a few other EX-owners, and from my own albeit extremelly brief experience, i do wonder if murcie's are difficult long-term ownership propostions ---espcially the e-gear cars?
i understand and accept that these are now old, low volume, hand-built italian supercars, which will always require more than a little bit of attention , but does the murcie fall into that catergory of car, where the electronics/electrical/electro-mechanical items, were just not up to scratch, leading to poor reliability?
clearly these are not every-day cars, but poor reliability, and small but niggling issues ,do mar the overall ownership experience
so, is the murcie inherently unreliable?
And getting the crystal ball out ,will the additional Audi input in the aventador, make it any more reliable, when it is 10 years old?
It would be good to hear the real facts from long-term owners
a lot of murcies seem to change hands within a a year or two
is this a reflection of the sort of people who are attracted to lamborghinis, or a reflection upon murcielagos?
as i said in the paragraph above, it would be really good to hear honest , long term experiences of the murcie, and we would all understand the limitations inherent in a low volume car
Edited by carspath on Saturday 1st November 00:32
Markly---good to hear that your murcie has been so reliable
please could you elaborate on :
1) why your car needed a restoration , and whether you did anything over and above routine servicing at the time of the restoration, to make it more reliable
2)the 6 on&off ignition key turns ---is this a way of resetting the ECU / how does it work / when does one resort to doing this ?
thank you
please could you elaborate on :
1) why your car needed a restoration , and whether you did anything over and above routine servicing at the time of the restoration, to make it more reliable
2)the 6 on&off ignition key turns ---is this a way of resetting the ECU / how does it work / when does one resort to doing this ?
thank you
carspath said:
Markly---good to hear that your murcie has been so reliable
please could you elaborate on :
1) why your car needed a restoration , and whether you did anything over and above routine servicing at the time of the restoration, to make it more reliable
2)the 6 on&off ignition key turns ---is this a way of resetting the ECU / how does it work / when does one resort to doing this ?
thank you
PM'd youplease could you elaborate on :
1) why your car needed a restoration , and whether you did anything over and above routine servicing at the time of the restoration, to make it more reliable
2)the 6 on&off ignition key turns ---is this a way of resetting the ECU / how does it work / when does one resort to doing this ?
thank you
Hello SydneySE
This is the first time I had seen your piece, great stuff especially the idea of self maintenance. I am all up for it, there seems to be too much scare mongering amongst owners. One question I do have is how you set the clutch without the use of a computer on the EGear system.
Regards,
John u
This is the first time I had seen your piece, great stuff especially the idea of self maintenance. I am all up for it, there seems to be too much scare mongering amongst owners. One question I do have is how you set the clutch without the use of a computer on the EGear system.
Regards,
John u
SydneySE said:
i bought my 2004 e-gear in june 2013; supposedly with a new (kevlar) clutch fitted by a well known independent (car purchased privately, but picked up from the independent garage after the clutch work).
I did drive it everyday to work, the shops, gym etc; otherwise why bother? (I have 2 other cars, but love driving the lambo!)
-clutch lasted 1500miles; part of that mileage included going back to the independent for the throttle bodies to be changed (known problem).
-coolant hose in the engine "v" burst within 150 miles of picking up
-oil light on at idle from pick up; car returned for an oil change and wrong grade of oil supplied....
Around easter this year, I had enough. I pulled the engine and gearbox out and removed the clutch. I got the clutch refaced (kevlar) and the flywheel and pressure plate all machined locally in the UK (maddog clutches- excellent work!) for £850 (bargain compared to USA versions!!). Throw out bearing is from an Audi R8 (or LP560 gallardo).
The clutch when pulled, was not kevlar, and the flywheel and pressure plate where clearly not machined when the friction plate was replaced (ceramic-metal puck clutch!!)...with original throwout bearing (who does this??)
I was about to refit this lot, when I thought- I live in central london, the e-gear hardly ever gets a chance to fully release the clutch in central london traffic (but is awesome on the freeway). So I decided to convert the car to manual- I sourced a manual box, master cylinder & slave, pipes, pedal box, shift tower. all from USA based auto-recyclers (actually box i got locally). Total spend £3.5K, but I still need to buy a speedo and 2x ECUs.
See the thing is, because they are old, and hand built, anyone can work on these cars- I'm an ex investment banker (now in private equity), and cars are my hobby. I don't even have a garage (live in an apartment, and am doing this in a quiet corner of my apartment's underground car park- see pic). I just bought an engine hoist on eBay, and some hand tools from Halfords, and bought a pirate CD of the workshop manual of eBay as well. You need next to know special tools, and the few you do, you can make/borrow/rent (haven't needed these yet- but do need one special tool to check the valve clearances before i re-install the engine).
The cars are not inherently un-reliable; just people cut to many corners maintenance wise- these are older cars now, and when I stripped the engine bay I noticed the rubber vapour lines from the petrol tank to the oil tank (incorporating the separator) where split in places- thats a fire waiting to happen! Some of the coolant hoses where bulging, so needed replacing- the parts are cheap (even though i replaced them with silicon hoses), but the labour would have been a HUGE bill.... i took the time to remove the radiators and refurbish them, same with the oil tank (straightening the bent drain tube), installed an uprated oil cooler etc. Very few specialist parts- fans are regular SPAL parts etc.
These cars are easy to maintain- just as long as you remember most jobs are engine out for access. If you have a manual car, you don't need to remove the engine to change the clutch, with an egear you do (and the gearbox). But if you pull the engine yourself, then it all becomes easy.... and relatively cheap.
here's a pic:
I did drive it everyday to work, the shops, gym etc; otherwise why bother? (I have 2 other cars, but love driving the lambo!)
-clutch lasted 1500miles; part of that mileage included going back to the independent for the throttle bodies to be changed (known problem).
-coolant hose in the engine "v" burst within 150 miles of picking up
-oil light on at idle from pick up; car returned for an oil change and wrong grade of oil supplied....
Around easter this year, I had enough. I pulled the engine and gearbox out and removed the clutch. I got the clutch refaced (kevlar) and the flywheel and pressure plate all machined locally in the UK (maddog clutches- excellent work!) for £850 (bargain compared to USA versions!!). Throw out bearing is from an Audi R8 (or LP560 gallardo).
The clutch when pulled, was not kevlar, and the flywheel and pressure plate where clearly not machined when the friction plate was replaced (ceramic-metal puck clutch!!)...with original throwout bearing (who does this??)
I was about to refit this lot, when I thought- I live in central london, the e-gear hardly ever gets a chance to fully release the clutch in central london traffic (but is awesome on the freeway). So I decided to convert the car to manual- I sourced a manual box, master cylinder & slave, pipes, pedal box, shift tower. all from USA based auto-recyclers (actually box i got locally). Total spend £3.5K, but I still need to buy a speedo and 2x ECUs.
See the thing is, because they are old, and hand built, anyone can work on these cars- I'm an ex investment banker (now in private equity), and cars are my hobby. I don't even have a garage (live in an apartment, and am doing this in a quiet corner of my apartment's underground car park- see pic). I just bought an engine hoist on eBay, and some hand tools from Halfords, and bought a pirate CD of the workshop manual of eBay as well. You need next to know special tools, and the few you do, you can make/borrow/rent (haven't needed these yet- but do need one special tool to check the valve clearances before i re-install the engine).
The cars are not inherently un-reliable; just people cut to many corners maintenance wise- these are older cars now, and when I stripped the engine bay I noticed the rubber vapour lines from the petrol tank to the oil tank (incorporating the separator) where split in places- thats a fire waiting to happen! Some of the coolant hoses where bulging, so needed replacing- the parts are cheap (even though i replaced them with silicon hoses), but the labour would have been a HUGE bill.... i took the time to remove the radiators and refurbish them, same with the oil tank (straightening the bent drain tube), installed an uprated oil cooler etc. Very few specialist parts- fans are regular SPAL parts etc.
These cars are easy to maintain- just as long as you remember most jobs are engine out for access. If you have a manual car, you don't need to remove the engine to change the clutch, with an egear you do (and the gearbox). But if you pull the engine yourself, then it all becomes easy.... and relatively cheap.
here's a pic:
Edited by SydneySE on Wednesday 3rd December 01:12
John Rutter - As far as I'm aware/been told by more than one person you can't. The E-gear system needs setting by the "Lamborghini Dealer" lap top. End of apparently otherwise the system will either wear out your new clutch quicker regardless of how you drive or just not bite properly!
Happy to be corrected if wrong
Happy to be corrected if wrong
I've been using my LP640 coupe a lot more this year, it's such a fun car to drive and I always turn off the ESP and run in sport mode, the latest update was a tubi sports exhaust system so it's making a brilliant noise... still it's tempting to change it from E-gear to manual even though I've grown to love the thump of the e-gear 'gear' change.
What's involved in changing to manual and rough costs? I've got space, tools, engine hoists etc etc but just wondered about a parts list.
Cheers
Graham
What's involved in changing to manual and rough costs? I've got space, tools, engine hoists etc etc but just wondered about a parts list.
Cheers
Graham
SydneySE said:
I'll be putting a full write up on lambopower.
I got told its not possible etc; but a guy on lambo-talk did it to his gallardo (regular office boy/hobyist too). The murci is in fact easier. Its just a huge hunk of junk (i don't mean its bad, its just BIG as in the engine is physically very LARGE, as is the gearbox, as are the exhaust pipes etc- nothing dainty in this car!)- seriously its harder to do this to a regular merc or bmw saloon.
Its changed my view on these cars- I will be selling mine and buying a wrecked one to fix next time as I could have one on the road for half the money, and I'd actually like to do a liberty walk conversion (wide body with air bag suspension), and its not worth doing to a complete going car.
If you go for an LP640, and want to do the manual conversion- i'd give you hand/info on doing it.
The thing is, if you don't live in central london in drive in peak hour traffic, then the e-gear is fine. The reason they wear clutches so fast is simply the fact that they release at about 1800rpm- in stop/go traffic, you never get to this point- if you leave a gap to allow a run up, some asshole (or 3) will jump into the gap just as you're about to engage 1st.... consequently you could (I have been) in a situation where 1st gear is never fully engaged for 45-60min. No you don't smell a burning clutch as the revs are low, but if you do this even weekly, your clutch will be lucky to last 5000miles (forget about doing race-starts!)
On the flip side, the fact that the clutch fails with a few race starts means you never suffer real mechanical failure (box/engine), so there is a mechanical safety aspect to that.
If I lived in a small town/outside of London, I'd keep it e-gear- its LOVELY on the right road; just have a serious think about your usage. My reality is if I'm not careful with timing, it takes me 45-60min in stop/start traffic to get outside of London...
A manual box will always be better for reversing/low speed manoeuvring/traffic, but not as fast at changing gears on a track or twisty B road...
These are actually impressively reliable cars mechanically, its the maintenance that lets them down - old rubber pipes, coolant hoses etc. Also the heat in the engine bay is phenomenal- and oil temp goes up in traffic to what you'd see on hard track day- I fitted an LP640 oil cooler (well dimensions of an LP640, but I had mine custom made, with greater cooling capacity), and added an extra SPAL fan to cool it in traffic (this was the issue for even the LP640- slightly better, but in traffic, there is not enough airflow through the oil cooler duct). You can add the fan to your original cooler if you like.
Hi Sydney SE,I got told its not possible etc; but a guy on lambo-talk did it to his gallardo (regular office boy/hobyist too). The murci is in fact easier. Its just a huge hunk of junk (i don't mean its bad, its just BIG as in the engine is physically very LARGE, as is the gearbox, as are the exhaust pipes etc- nothing dainty in this car!)- seriously its harder to do this to a regular merc or bmw saloon.
Its changed my view on these cars- I will be selling mine and buying a wrecked one to fix next time as I could have one on the road for half the money, and I'd actually like to do a liberty walk conversion (wide body with air bag suspension), and its not worth doing to a complete going car.
If you go for an LP640, and want to do the manual conversion- i'd give you hand/info on doing it.
The thing is, if you don't live in central london in drive in peak hour traffic, then the e-gear is fine. The reason they wear clutches so fast is simply the fact that they release at about 1800rpm- in stop/go traffic, you never get to this point- if you leave a gap to allow a run up, some asshole (or 3) will jump into the gap just as you're about to engage 1st.... consequently you could (I have been) in a situation where 1st gear is never fully engaged for 45-60min. No you don't smell a burning clutch as the revs are low, but if you do this even weekly, your clutch will be lucky to last 5000miles (forget about doing race-starts!)
On the flip side, the fact that the clutch fails with a few race starts means you never suffer real mechanical failure (box/engine), so there is a mechanical safety aspect to that.
If I lived in a small town/outside of London, I'd keep it e-gear- its LOVELY on the right road; just have a serious think about your usage. My reality is if I'm not careful with timing, it takes me 45-60min in stop/start traffic to get outside of London...
A manual box will always be better for reversing/low speed manoeuvring/traffic, but not as fast at changing gears on a track or twisty B road...
These are actually impressively reliable cars mechanically, its the maintenance that lets them down - old rubber pipes, coolant hoses etc. Also the heat in the engine bay is phenomenal- and oil temp goes up in traffic to what you'd see on hard track day- I fitted an LP640 oil cooler (well dimensions of an LP640, but I had mine custom made, with greater cooling capacity), and added an extra SPAL fan to cool it in traffic (this was the issue for even the LP640- slightly better, but in traffic, there is not enough airflow through the oil cooler duct). You can add the fan to your original cooler if you like.
Edited by SydneySE on Wednesday 3rd December 14:35
Edited by SydneySE on Wednesday 3rd December 17:48
Have you manage to finish the project?
Can you provide the post an update.
I am about to undertake the conversion also on my LP640.
Please also feel free to PM me or email me at cheech05@gmail.com.
If any one else is aware of progress or completion on this conversion for the Murcielago/LP640, please do respond or contact myself.
Many Thanks
StuLawton said:
labrit said:
I just picked up a Yellow LP640 with a manual. 1 of 4 supposedly.
1. Tom Hartley manual
2. Top Gear Manual - white 09 - is this yours Steveirl?
3. My yellow one - 2007
4. ?
4. 6th Gear white car belonging to simonspider1. Tom Hartley manual
2. Top Gear Manual - white 09 - is this yours Steveirl?
3. My yellow one - 2007
4. ?
5. Early 640 Arancio car supplied by Lamborghini Birmingham that was written-off and repaired.
Any more?
Gassing Station | Diablo/Murcielago/Aventador | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff