MP4 12C Deprecation and Brand Value
Discussion
It probably helps sell the cars if someone walks in and is offered a 25k+ discount, as they feel like they've done a good deal and get an ego boost or whatever. A friend of mine bought one, not because he wanted a Mac, but rather they offered him a good p/x against his car and a massive saving off a Mac. In the end, he couldn't walk away without doing the deal.
Unfortunately, he now needs to out it and despite the massive discount when he bought it, he is going to end up royally getting his pants pulled down. He was under the illusion that he'd be able to run the thing for 6 months and then sell it for what he paid for it. As it happens, the whole affair will have cost him more than his wifes Range Rover cost in full.
Probably some kind of market realignment is required, but this will harm the brand unless the likes of Ferrari do it too - which will never happen.
Unfortunately, he now needs to out it and despite the massive discount when he bought it, he is going to end up royally getting his pants pulled down. He was under the illusion that he'd be able to run the thing for 6 months and then sell it for what he paid for it. As it happens, the whole affair will have cost him more than his wifes Range Rover cost in full.
Probably some kind of market realignment is required, but this will harm the brand unless the likes of Ferrari do it too - which will never happen.
At the end of the day how do you market a car/brand that was new to the market only a couple of years ago. At best your price point is an educated guess.
Why do people expect their cars too hold their value, this is not a given and should never be expected? People don’t expect this to happen with other consumer products.
The 458 market is awash with cars at the moment, a number of which have been for sale for a very long time. Should that market be realigned?
If you want your car to hold its value or even appreciate, buy a classic
Why do people expect their cars too hold their value, this is not a given and should never be expected? People don’t expect this to happen with other consumer products.
The 458 market is awash with cars at the moment, a number of which have been for sale for a very long time. Should that market be realigned?
If you want your car to hold its value or even appreciate, buy a classic
respectfully, you are forgetting one thing, I assume that the intention was to build the brand.
Take Porsche for example, one of the criteria on new product pricing is residual value, they understand the importance of a satisfied customer, i.e. repeat custom rate is at 7 out of 10.
I do not follow your logic or reasoning, how can be acceptable for a vehicle to lose over 85k in 9 months and 8k miles of ownership
Take Porsche for example, one of the criteria on new product pricing is residual value, they understand the importance of a satisfied customer, i.e. repeat custom rate is at 7 out of 10.
I do not follow your logic or reasoning, how can be acceptable for a vehicle to lose over 85k in 9 months and 8k miles of ownership
Respectfully, your posts show that you have a bee in your bonnet - every time you mention McLaren it is negative. The posters above have pointed that to expect to buy a new car and retain the value is daft. Also, the 12C decline is not remarkable, the 458 market is saturated. I can only conclude that you have a personal problem with McLaren if you can't concede these points.
nothing could be further from the truth. In my view the 12C is the best performance car to hit the market in the past 10 years. I am about to buy my 3rd
To put over 600BHP, into a rear wheel drive car that a person as in myself with limited skills, can drive on track within times that I have only dreamt about, let alone be used a continental daily driver.
I did over 15 full on track days in my coupe, It never missed a beat.
What I do no understand is as to why large % discounts are offered from new or nearly new cars, as such driving the residual prices into the ground. Why not just realign the price from new and hold firm. This IMHO would help the brand no end.
To put over 600BHP, into a rear wheel drive car that a person as in myself with limited skills, can drive on track within times that I have only dreamt about, let alone be used a continental daily driver.
I did over 15 full on track days in my coupe, It never missed a beat.
What I do no understand is as to why large % discounts are offered from new or nearly new cars, as such driving the residual prices into the ground. Why not just realign the price from new and hold firm. This IMHO would help the brand no end.
Porsche prices with an eye to residuals - utter nonsense (and I speak as a multiple Porsche owner).
Some Porsches have great residuals, others terrible. Compare a 2009 GT2 vs GT3, they're the same price now but the GT3 has lost £20k, the GT2 £60k. Same goes for Cayenne, compare Diesel vs Petrol Turbo etc. Same with Panamera. Look at 991s, over-priced, so they are being discounted on new and in the used are building up in supply and not moving.
Same for Ferrari, try selling a 1 year-old FF for a £100k loss compared to a 458 Spyder, that trades at a premium.
Some Porsches have great residuals, others terrible. Compare a 2009 GT2 vs GT3, they're the same price now but the GT3 has lost £20k, the GT2 £60k. Same goes for Cayenne, compare Diesel vs Petrol Turbo etc. Same with Panamera. Look at 991s, over-priced, so they are being discounted on new and in the used are building up in supply and not moving.
Same for Ferrari, try selling a 1 year-old FF for a £100k loss compared to a 458 Spyder, that trades at a premium.
APOLO1 said:
nothing could be further from the truth. In my view the 12C is the best performance car to hit the market in the past 10 years. I am about to buy my 3rd
What I do no understand is as to why large % discounts are offered from new or nearly new cars, as such driving the residual prices into the ground. Why not just realign the price from new and hold firm. This IMHO would help the brand no end.
Curious as to what prompts a third purchase...gather the prior two were coupe and spider?What I do no understand is as to why large % discounts are offered from new or nearly new cars, as such driving the residual prices into the ground. Why not just realign the price from new and hold firm. This IMHO would help the brand no end.
With respect to depreciation, there's a supply push/manufacturing led characteristic to McLaren's approach that has (disturbing?) hallmarks of the Aston "load the marketing channel" approach...and with akin levels of depreciation...
That's a choice by McLaren to chase scale.....in contrast to the brand building that more limited availability/exclusivity would have engendered...note Luca's comments about further restricting Ferrari road car avail forthwith....
Guyer, respectfully. Your comments are not in line with the Facts. My Co director sits on the Supervisory board at AG, Residual values are discussed extensively when evaluating new product pricing.
It is also within my direct knowledge that in part the examples your give are perverse. Back in the UK my 991 S cost 86k new, ok with discount done 6k miles, part ex price agst , 991 tts 79k, perfectly reasonable. Cayenne 3.0 TDI, 25k miles part ex loss just over 1k, Ok the car was still in play at the time. Stupid comment with regard to 458 SP, trading over list in UK. Trying to sell my friends for past 6 months, best offer 35k behind with 700 miles
CC8 above, has the best way forward, as in stick to a Fantasy Garage.....lolllllll
It is also within my direct knowledge that in part the examples your give are perverse. Back in the UK my 991 S cost 86k new, ok with discount done 6k miles, part ex price agst , 991 tts 79k, perfectly reasonable. Cayenne 3.0 TDI, 25k miles part ex loss just over 1k, Ok the car was still in play at the time. Stupid comment with regard to 458 SP, trading over list in UK. Trying to sell my friends for past 6 months, best offer 35k behind with 700 miles
CC8 above, has the best way forward, as in stick to a Fantasy Garage.....lolllllll
Edited by APOLO1 on Sunday 4th August 12:13
APOLO1 said:
Guyer, respectfully. Your comments are not in line with the Facts.
Tell that to the bloke I know who sold his 2.5 yr old Panamera Turbo S that cost £128k for £65k.Barely 10 Year old 911s, Boxsters and Cayennes are worth as little as 10% of their original list price, thats not the Porsche holding price or supply with an eye on residuals, it's the market determining therir worth.......
...also your part-ex prices are flatter by ordering new cars, there's no way they'd have given you the same deal on a straight sale. Proper trade prices on 1 year-old 991s are £20-£25k below list.....
Edited by Guyr on Sunday 4th August 12:25
Guyer...respectfully your posts follow no logic, along with a lack of cogency. May I refer you back to the OP, we are not debating 10 year old Porsches.........lol
Cherry picking low hanging fruits' with the odd car over the past 10 years has no purpose on this topic. That being as to why offer a substantive discount on new or slightly used 12Cs, when IMHO the more suitable use of funds would be to realign the recommended retail price in line with that of the market.
Good Luck.
Cherry picking low hanging fruits' with the odd car over the past 10 years has no purpose on this topic. That being as to why offer a substantive discount on new or slightly used 12Cs, when IMHO the more suitable use of funds would be to realign the recommended retail price in line with that of the market.
Good Luck.
Thermonuclear said:
A friend of mine bought one, not because he wanted a Mac, but rather they offered him a good p/x against his car and a massive saving off a Mac.
Thermonuclear said:
He was under the illusion that he'd be able to run the thing for 6 months and then sell it for what he paid for it.
Is your friend mentally handicapped? How was the above ever going to happen? 
KFC said:
Thermonuclear said:
A friend of mine bought one, not because he wanted a Mac, but rather they offered him a good p/x against his car and a massive saving off a Mac.
Thermonuclear said:
He was under the illusion that he'd be able to run the thing for 6 months and then sell it for what he paid for it.
Is your friend mentally handicapped? How was the above ever going to happen? If he saved £20-25k off list and got £5-10k better trade in value on his pix
Why shouldn't he think with a bit of man maths that a year down the road
he would sell for around £30-35k off list..
Even being £5-10k out of pocket, that would be like breaking even...more or less..
APOLO1 said:
Take Porsche for example, one of the criteria on new product pricing is residual value, they understand the importance of a satisfied customer, i.e. repeat custom rate is at 7 out of 10.
I do not follow your logic or reasoning, how can be acceptable for a vehicle to lose over 85k in 9 months and 8k miles of ownership
and...
What I do no understand is as to why large % discounts are offered from new or nearly new cars, as such driving the residual prices into the ground. Why not just realign the price from new and hold firm. This IMHO would help the brand no end.
I was not aware that large discounts are being given to new orders on the 12c spider but will take your word for it.I do not follow your logic or reasoning, how can be acceptable for a vehicle to lose over 85k in 9 months and 8k miles of ownership
and...
What I do no understand is as to why large % discounts are offered from new or nearly new cars, as such driving the residual prices into the ground. Why not just realign the price from new and hold firm. This IMHO would help the brand no end.
The FF and SLS have lost in % terms as much if not more as the 12c.. is that acceptable? Perhaps not but the used car market is what it is. With all due respect having taken a big hit on your coupe exchanging for the spider, putting on a very expensive option like the MSO front spilitter on your spider and expecting to recoup that on a quick sale was possibly rather optimistic as well.....
Short of dramatically limiting supply or cutting prices there is not a lot else the manufacturer can do to support used car prices in the short term, neither of which Mclaren will easily be able to do. What kind of price alignment are you suggesting Mclaren make to balance out the 85k hit over 8k miles? There is no chance Mclaren can take their prices down by 50k for example without bankrupting the company. The 12c is the ONLY carbon chassis car in it's price range (so far anyway until the Alfa 4C) with a newly developed engine and all this was developed without major manufacturer support. These things I suggest cost a considerable amount of money in R&D which need to be recouped by Mclaren's investors somehow. If anything, I would suggest Mclaren put in a major power/electronic upgrade (as far as possible just to continue being competitive in the silly lap time contest especially with the new GT3/TTS), RAISE 12c prices but cut down very strongly on production numbers as the way to go forward as well as being able to open up a space for the P13.
paul0843 said:
I think your being a bit harsh..
If he saved £20-25k off list and got £5-10k better trade in value on his pix
Why shouldn't he think with a bit of man maths that a year down the road
he would sell for around £30-35k off list..
Even being £5-10k out of pocket, that would be like breaking even...more or less..
The full thought process makes no sense. If they're already discounting new ones to sell them, why would anyone want a 2nd hand one specced by someone else, at the same price they could also get a brand new one for?If he saved £20-25k off list and got £5-10k better trade in value on his pix
Why shouldn't he think with a bit of man maths that a year down the road
he would sell for around £30-35k off list..
Even being £5-10k out of pocket, that would be like breaking even...more or less..
The only way you can hope to not lose money over 6 months is when there is a waiting list, and you time it to get back out before supply catches up with demand surely.
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