Option prices on McLaren's, are they just daft???
Discussion
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At the end of the day its a wonderful spec and I love the colour. If I was in the market I would snap it up. The only thing I would change given a choice is that I would have preferred a coupe over a spider.
Just out of interest can anyone tell me how much this car would have listed at compared to its for sale price?
Just out of interest can anyone tell me how much this car would have listed at compared to its for sale price?
Streetrod said:
Personally I would like options to actually reflect the production costs plus a decent profit for the manufacturer, not the wholesale ripoff we are seeing in the markets at the moment.
That's not really the way the entire sector of luxury/high end goods works is it...? they charge whatever they think they can get away with. Nevermind paint (which the manufacturers are obliged to warranty it to a certain standard), I think interior 'carbon trim' is the biggest ripoff as it's basically just CF cloth wrapped around plastic panels then coated in clear resin and it's stupidly expensive....
It goes with the territory I guess but gets my goat too.
Not on the same level by any means but I recall enquiring about a dealer specced RS5 and telling the Audi guy the car was over priced because of the inflated prices on their selected options, took the car to around £75k IIRC. As a result the cost to change from my mint RS4 didn't make sense.
My favourite was £1800 for raising the speed limiter from 155 to 175mph, which presumably takes 30 seconds of a code change to the ECU
Not on the same level by any means but I recall enquiring about a dealer specced RS5 and telling the Audi guy the car was over priced because of the inflated prices on their selected options, took the car to around £75k IIRC. As a result the cost to change from my mint RS4 didn't make sense.
My favourite was £1800 for raising the speed limiter from 155 to 175mph, which presumably takes 30 seconds of a code change to the ECU
Edited by Adam B on Wednesday 22 February 10:04
As you can see above, the classic example, I would be surprised if the option of the paint on that Rover was more than £1000, and its the exact same stuff as on the Mclaren
On another note. Looking at the prices of LT's in the classifieds, why the huge variations, and its not just down to spec
On another note. Looking at the prices of LT's in the classifieds, why the huge variations, and its not just down to spec
demand side pricing is all it is
Porsche used to do COGS (cost of goods sold) plus pricing which is why the 993 had such a good reliability rep. Tgey built the car, then priced it with a margin on top.
The water cooled ones were built to a market pricepoint and we all know what happened
Porsche used to do COGS (cost of goods sold) plus pricing which is why the 993 had such a good reliability rep. Tgey built the car, then priced it with a margin on top.
The water cooled ones were built to a market pricepoint and we all know what happened
Porsche wouldn't exist now if they had still followed that model of cost+margin = price
McLaren have vast overheads and dev costs to recoup and operate in a segment where people will pay £30k for a paint colour so fair play to them
Options are hughely profitable for auto makers, without them the cars would have to cost loads more, be less well developed, or be less desirable
It's not as though you ever see a poverty spec Ferarri, they have it sewn up too
McLaren have vast overheads and dev costs to recoup and operate in a segment where people will pay £30k for a paint colour so fair play to them
Options are hughely profitable for auto makers, without them the cars would have to cost loads more, be less well developed, or be less desirable
It's not as though you ever see a poverty spec Ferarri, they have it sewn up too
lee_fr200 said:
Idiocy!
I'd rather just get a cheap colour then have it wrapped in that colour changing vinyl probably cost 5k as opposed to 29k
If you think you can get vinyl that looks anything like a posh paint you are seriously uninformed. Calling someone an idiot for it shows your ignorance in my view. Mclaren paint is seriously special. When you go to see MSO and what they do it makes you understand. Some of these paints are 500 hours worth of work. Some sticky plastic wrap won't give you the same effectI'd rather just get a cheap colour then have it wrapped in that colour changing vinyl probably cost 5k as opposed to 29k
woppum said:
lee_fr200 said:
Idiocy!
I'd rather just get a cheap colour then have it wrapped in that colour changing vinyl probably cost 5k as opposed to 29k
If you think you can get vinyl that looks anything like a posh paint you are seriously uninformed. Calling someone an idiot for it shows your ignorance in my view. Mclaren paint is seriously special. When you go to see MSO and what they do it makes you understand. Some of these paints are 500 hours worth of work. Some sticky plastic wrap won't give you the same effectI'd rather just get a cheap colour then have it wrapped in that colour changing vinyl probably cost 5k as opposed to 29k
The 500 hour jobs Woppum I suspect are where they are applying multiply colours onto a car so involving a lot of masking etc. I have never spent that amount of time on a single colour paint job even those requiring a different colour base coat to the final top coat plus lacquer.
The 675LT example at the beginning of this thread needs a certain skill level to apply well but is certainly not the most difficult paint to apply
Streetrod said:
McLaren's paint finishes are certainly good they sure are not the best straight from the factory. Special jobs out of MSO may be better but I have never seen one raw from the factory, only ones that have been paint corrected and had PPF applied so I can’t comment on those.
The 500 hour jobs Woppum I suspect are where they are applying multiply colours onto a car so involving a lot of masking etc. I have never spent that amount of time on a single colour paint job even those requiring a different colour base coat to the final top coat plus lacquer.
The 675LT example at the beginning of this thread needs a certain skill level to apply well but is certainly not the most difficult paint to apply
The paint in this thread is not 500 hours as far as I know, the 500 hour paint is the velocity 720. I posted some pics in the 720 thread on this forum. I have only ever bought one mclaren and it came with 300 miles on the clock from Romans then went straight to Topaz so can't really comment re the rest. The 500 hour jobs Woppum I suspect are where they are applying multiply colours onto a car so involving a lot of masking etc. I have never spent that amount of time on a single colour paint job even those requiring a different colour base coat to the final top coat plus lacquer.
The 675LT example at the beginning of this thread needs a certain skill level to apply well but is certainly not the most difficult paint to apply
I bought a Ferrari with a triple layer paint job, very expensive. I heard people comment on forums at the time about Renault doing a very similar paint colour for about a tenth of the price. I put it down to "Ferrari, what do you expect?" However, the finished result is far far nicer and deeper than the Renault 'equivalent'.
Firstly, 'triple layer' is exactly what it says. And a much more intricate process, and harder to get right I believe. Also, the paint is done at a separate sub-contractor so the build process has to be interrupted, the panels transported to the other place, and back, and production resumed. This adds logistics, admin and production scheduling cost, in addition to the actual painting. The paint finish itself is far superior to the standard finish.
So, a lot of money, but then the car itself is a lot of money. I considered the paint cost long and hard (I hate to waste money) but decided that the who,e point was to buy something very special and if I preferred the triple finish I should go ahead. I'm glad I did.
The Ferrari structure is that most solids and metallics are 'free', and they generally look very good too, despite the fact that the standard painting process is not the best. There is then a mid level, about £8k, for historic paints and some of the non-triple special paints like the newly introduced (and really quite stunning) Blu Corsa on the 488. I don't think that's an unreasonable position. The idea of cost-plus is really a nonsense. No manufacturer or car business runs like that. It is a competitive market and no competitor can afford to run like that. The market dictates, meaning that sometimes you can charge large margins, other times you have to subsidise because the market won't support anything other. For supercar manufacturers to charge for what customers see value in, is protecting them for the long term. Worst customer value of all? When the marque ceases to exist.
Firstly, 'triple layer' is exactly what it says. And a much more intricate process, and harder to get right I believe. Also, the paint is done at a separate sub-contractor so the build process has to be interrupted, the panels transported to the other place, and back, and production resumed. This adds logistics, admin and production scheduling cost, in addition to the actual painting. The paint finish itself is far superior to the standard finish.
So, a lot of money, but then the car itself is a lot of money. I considered the paint cost long and hard (I hate to waste money) but decided that the who,e point was to buy something very special and if I preferred the triple finish I should go ahead. I'm glad I did.
The Ferrari structure is that most solids and metallics are 'free', and they generally look very good too, despite the fact that the standard painting process is not the best. There is then a mid level, about £8k, for historic paints and some of the non-triple special paints like the newly introduced (and really quite stunning) Blu Corsa on the 488. I don't think that's an unreasonable position. The idea of cost-plus is really a nonsense. No manufacturer or car business runs like that. It is a competitive market and no competitor can afford to run like that. The market dictates, meaning that sometimes you can charge large margins, other times you have to subsidise because the market won't support anything other. For supercar manufacturers to charge for what customers see value in, is protecting them for the long term. Worst customer value of all? When the marque ceases to exist.
woppum said:
The paint in this thread is not 500 hours as far as I know, the 500 hour paint is the velocity 720.
Even then, Autocar reckoned 300 hours.http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-gene...
Still sounds like b
ks. Eight full-time weeks for somebody?TooMany2cvs said:
woppum said:
The paint in this thread is not 500 hours as far as I know, the 500 hour paint is the velocity 720.
Even then, Autocar reckoned 300 hours.http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-gene...
Still sounds like b
ks. Eight full-time weeks for somebody?I have only seen pics of the MSO car but from descriptions it appears to be a fade away paint job. The master of this technique is a guy called Gene Winfield, now 89 years old. He basically invented the technique back in the forties and is still called upon today to produce show wining paint jobs. I suspect if he saw the MSO car he would describe the paint job as "Basic" and no way would it have taken anywhere near 500 hours to complete.
Modern paints are easier to use and apply, but for a manufacturer like McLaren to offer this kind of personalised service they are to be applauded, I just think they are exaggerating the time taken to justify the asking price
Streetrod said:
I agree, I was thinking about this again and actually calculated who many man weeks 500 hours was and came to the same conclusion as you.
I have only seen pics of the MSO car but from descriptions it appears to be a fade away paint job. The master of this technique is a guy called Gene Winfield, now 89 years old. He basically invented the technique back in the forties and is still called upon today to produce show wining paint jobs. I suspect if he saw the MSO car he would describe the paint job as "Basic" and no way would it have taken anywhere near 500 hours to complete.
Modern paints are easier to use and apply, but for a manufacturer like McLaren to offer this kind of personalised service they are to be applauded, I just think they are exaggerating the time taken to justify the asking price
I appreciate you have expertise in the field, but with the greatest respect you can't pass comnent on a complex paint job like the Velocity 720S until you have seen it with your own eyes. I have only seen pics of the MSO car but from descriptions it appears to be a fade away paint job. The master of this technique is a guy called Gene Winfield, now 89 years old. He basically invented the technique back in the forties and is still called upon today to produce show wining paint jobs. I suspect if he saw the MSO car he would describe the paint job as "Basic" and no way would it have taken anywhere near 500 hours to complete.
Modern paints are easier to use and apply, but for a manufacturer like McLaren to offer this kind of personalised service they are to be applauded, I just think they are exaggerating the time taken to justify the asking price
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