Will I lose my shirt on a 650?

Will I lose my shirt on a 650?

Author
Discussion

tyrrell

1,315 posts

146 months

Sunday 10th February
quotequote all
12pack said:
No security package,I believe, on that car. So no parking sensors, lift, rear camera. Needed to not damage that expensive carbon trim. No color matched stitching either. I’d be looking for those things.

Edited by 12pack on Sunday 10th February 20:33
+1

Bikeracer1098

484 posts

126 months

Sunday 10th February
quotequote all
DjSki said:
Main dealers that actually own stock I think are being much more realistic at the moment, I wanted to see a 12C at Ascot McLaren this weekend but it had sold by Friday, was up at £90k and with a years warranty and with its spec made it the best value car on sale at the time in my view. Most indy dealer stock seems to be SOR and owners less keen to bank a drop in value to get a sale.

Seeing this with Ferrari at the moment too, cheaper dealer F430s that come with 2 years warranty....they are selling because the dealers are being realistic.
I went to view the 12C at Ascot on Thursday morning, the purchaser viewed the car the previous afternoon and then placed a deposit on the car shortly after I viewed it.

I had a discussion on what they would accept for the Car and as yiu said once you’ve included the cost of extended warranty was one of the best value 12C on the market.

Currently there is an extremely low mileage 12C available at a BMW main dealer, if that is of interest to you.

rickyneil

53 posts

62 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
12pack said:
No security package,I believe, on that car. So no parking sensors, lift, rear camera. Needed to not damage that expensive carbon trim. No color matched stitching either. I’d be looking for those things.

Edited by 12pack on Sunday 10th February 20:33
I looked at and then decided against this car a few months ago because of the spec, ended up buying a higher spec one also in Mantis. Looks fantastic in that colour. Good value at £120 from a main dealer along with the warranty and comeback though.

I’m sure that they will depreciate more but you get a very accomplished car for that money. It’s a privilege to drive and own.

Edited by rickyneil on Monday 11th February 06:51

Thorney

290 posts

198 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
12pack said:
No security package,I believe, on that car. So no parking sensors, lift, rear camera. Needed to not damage that expensive carbon trim. No color matched stitching either. I’d be looking for those things.

Edited by 12pack on Sunday 10th February 20:33
Be wary of the coloured stitching on the dash, I have a VR car with orange stitching and it reflects something awful in the windscreen.

br d

6,592 posts

164 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
Thorney said:
Be wary of the coloured stitching on the dash, I have a VR car with orange stitching and it reflects something awful in the windscreen.
I had that on a TO car but the brain adjusted and I just stopped noticing it after a while.

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Juno

2,818 posts

187 months

Tuesday 12th February
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355spiderguy said:
DeltaOne said:
Independents have to put their own money where their mouth is, and in doing so deserve to make some money on the trade. I’m therefore always happy buying from good independents every bit as much as from main dealers. Sure warranty needs to be factored in some times, but that’s not insurmountable. I’d far rather let an independent have a profit on a deal and want me back as a client next time than most main dealers
The AB car is SOR just like almost all of the others he has for sale; if you squeeze him for a deal he then just squeezes the client selling.

McLaren Leeds own the car, it has as I mentioned half the miles, half of the owners and unlike the AB car the warranty doesn't have a limit.
In a two horse race you thoughts on an independent selling a lesser vehicle for the same amount, and who knows what warranty, sentiments would not come into it. However, if there was a price difference of say £8-10k, yes, it most certainly would come into it.

On SOR, its very easy to sit on a car as the investment for the dealer is perhaps a detail and advertising; half of the time the car is not even onsite.

I doubt very much the commission rate shall reduce by the same percentage that the car reduces in price to obtain a sale. I would imagine there is at least £3.5k fee for advertising high and then watching the price drop. Above that, the cost of the warranty shall no doubt be deducted from the sellers return. I appreciate that the seller may dictate a desired sale price, but in this current market a realistic sale price matching spec / owners / mileage is what shall obtain a sale, not a nice independent, no matter how helpful he/she is.

Only 3 or 4 months ago 650spiders were spread across the £125-155k mark. now, they are squeezed into the £120-130k mark; when the main dealers have 3 or 4 listed at the £120k mark, others for sale have to be cheaper especially with higher miles, owners etc.

As in previous post, if you can squeeze a main dealer into giving 2 year warranty thrown in on the purchase, that would go a long way; the biggest topics on the McLaren forum is worries about depreciation, failures and the £5k a year warranty on top of a service (5yrs old) straight away you have removed 66% of the perceived barriers for buying; unfortunately independents cannot offer this; infact AB is the only one I know off that can offer the McLaren warranty albeit with a limit, and he can only offer 1 year max. ( to the best of my very limited knowledge )
These are the very issues that have put me off buying a Mclaren to date;

1. Outrageous servicing costs
2. Outrageous warranty costs
3. Outrageous repair costs if no warranty
4. Come sale time know one actually wants to buy it back so you are stuck with SOR route
5. To SOR the car you the owner will be stung for £3500.00 minumum plus vat and have to have the car srviced and pay for a warranty at another cost of circa £5k
6. That;s going to cost you nearly £10k just to sell the dam thing after you have owned it at the end of 1 or 2 years,totally absurd and crazy!!!

Comparison

I sold my Lambo private 2-1/2 years old, no issues as it had a 4 years warranty,service cost £1200

Porsche GT cars,2 year servicing circa £500-£800 and warranty circa £2k for another 2 years i think plus a few hundred quid for the multi check

Mclaren need to learn from the above or they will just burn their customer base into oblivion

I would actually like to try one but not until all of the above has been sorted out!!!



12pack

659 posts

106 months

Tuesday 12th February
quotequote all
Juno said:
These are the very issues that have put me off buying a Mclaren to date;

1. Outrageous servicing costs
2. Outrageous warranty costs
3. Outrageous repair costs if no warranty
4. Come sale time know one actually wants to buy it back so you are stuck with SOR route
5. To SOR the car you the owner will be stung for £3500.00 minumum plus vat and have to have the car srviced and pay for a warranty at another cost of circa £5k
6. That;s going to cost you nearly £10k just to sell the dam thing after you have owned it at the end of 1 or 2 years,totally absurd and crazy!!!

Comparison

I sold my Lambo private 2-1/2 years old, no issues as it had a 4 years warranty,service cost £1200

Porsche GT cars,2 year servicing circa £500-£800 and warranty circa £2k for another 2 years i think plus a few hundred quid for the multi check

Mclaren need to learn from the above or they will just burn their customer base into oblivion

I would actually like to try one but not until all of the above has been sorted out!!!
2/12 years ago - so just before Brexit referendum? Invalid data point
-Service costs quoted to me are lower than Aston Martin so far.
-Porsches are hardly low volume exotics - My Jaguar service costs were even lower.
-SOR: The one owner car I bought was itself bought in by dealer as part ex for a 720s
-Lets hope repair costs in reality follow the same trend of reality being far better than ad hoc forum statements.

ferdi p

1,158 posts

110 months

Tuesday 12th February
quotequote all
Juno said:
These are the very issues that have put me off buying a Mclaren to date;

1. Outrageous servicing costs
2. Outrageous warranty costs
3. Outrageous repair costs if no warranty
4. Come sale time know one actually wants to buy it back so you are stuck with SOR route
5. To SOR the car you the owner will be stung for £3500.00 minumum plus vat and have to have the car srviced and pay for a warranty at another cost of circa £5k
6. That;s going to cost you nearly £10k just to sell the dam thing after you have owned it at the end of 1 or 2 years,totally absurd and crazy!!!

Comparison

I sold my Lambo private 2-1/2 years old, no issues as it had a 4 years warranty,service cost £1200

Porsche GT cars,2 year servicing circa £500-£800 and warranty circa £2k for another 2 years i think plus a few hundred quid for the multi check

Mclaren need to learn from the above or they will just burn their customer base into oblivion

I would actually like to try one but not until all of the above has been sorted out!!!
2015 650 Spider
1. Outrageous servicing costs - Paid £3610 for a service & 4th year warranty
2. Outrageous warranty costs - See above
3. Outrageous repair costs if no warranty - See Thorney
4. Come sale time know one actually wants to buy it back so you are stuck with SOR route - Sold a Ferrari, Mac, Porsche & Lambo all on SOR, no problems at all.
5. To SOR the car you the owner will be stung for £3500.00 minumum plus vat and have to have the car srviced and pay for a warranty at another cost of circa £5k - See above
6. That;s going to cost you nearly £10k just to sell the dam thing after you have owned it at the end of 1 or 2 years,totally absurd and crazy!!!
- Agreed, owning ANY supercar is deffo crazy!!

Edited by ferdi p on Tuesday 12th February 14:16

355spiderguy

152 posts

109 months

Wednesday 13th February
quotequote all
To be fair, as i am not looking to trade in, if a private seller had a fully Mac serviced 650 spider that had the Mclaren warranty at a below dealer price i would definitely consider it..although i would again try to negotiate an inspection and another yrs extension to the warranty ( probably making a contribution ).

On the flip side, and this is aimed at long term owners, in your experience if you banked the warranty cost ( £3k to £5k dependant on age ) into a, say, McLaren fund, do you feel confident enough that you would not spend more than that a year on repairs? From previous reading, yes there are the odd niggles but the 650 seems to be better built than rushed out models.

The *yawn* gearbox issue reminds me of the valve guide issue years and years ago on F355s; effected a handful of people on early cars but to this day the story has grown arms and legs fed by forum experts whom in most cases never even owned a Ferrari.

For all my reading on the 650, there does not seem to much goes wrong with them so am i over focussing on the warranty side?

If any long term owners can post genuine experience rather than the usual suspects it would be very helpful.

slf2012

274 posts

84 months

Wednesday 13th February
quotequote all
355spiderguy said:
To be fair, as i am not looking to trade in, if a private seller had a fully Mac serviced 650 spider that had the Mclaren warranty at a below dealer price i would definitely consider it..although i would again try to negotiate an inspection and another yrs extension to the warranty ( probably making a contribution ).

On the flip side, and this is aimed at long term owners, in your experience if you banked the warranty cost ( £3k to £5k dependant on age ) into a, say, McLaren fund, do you feel confident enough that you would not spend more than that a year on repairs? From previous reading, yes there are the odd niggles but the 650 seems to be better built than rushed out models.

The *yawn* gearbox issue reminds me of the valve guide issue years and years ago on F355s; effected a handful of people on early cars but to this day the story has grown arms and legs fed by forum experts whom in most cases never even owned a Ferrari.

For all my reading on the 650, there does not seem to much goes wrong with them so am i over focussing on the warranty side?

If any long term owners can post genuine experience rather than the usual suspects it would be very helpful.
Had my 650 for a year now, so admittedly not long term owner, but the list of work on mine includes replacing an engine knock sensor (9 house labour plus the cost of the sensors), steering fluid reservoir, washer fluid pipe, rear hydraulic suspension pipe, bodywork adjustments, and a cracked windscreen (due to stress rather than a stone chip). All was covered under warranty, but I'm sure the cost of those repairs plus collection and delivery would make that first years warranty worthwhile.

About to embark on a second year's warranty, hopefully this one will be less worthwhile!!

Thorney

290 posts

198 months

Wednesday 13th February
quotequote all
Juno said:
These are the very issues that have put me off buying a Mclaren to date;

1. Outrageous servicing costs
2. Outrageous warranty costs
3. Outrageous repair costs if no warranty
I dont think service costs are that bad, anything from £500 to £1500 is the range depending on which service and whilst I agree the Mclaren warranty is a rip off now there are other choices.

Same applies for repairs, Mac dealers do know how to charge, but there are other options and no doubt more coming.

tyrrell

1,315 posts

146 months

Wednesday 13th February
quotequote all
Its very disappointing when people come along with the facts on the McLaren PH section, I much prefer the Hyper Bowl ill informed usual PH bullst spread by the non owners.

Please can we just stick to the old wives tails please biggrin

Cockernee

3,037 posts

98 months

Wednesday 13th February
quotequote all
tyrrell said:
Its very disappointing when people come along with the facts on the McLaren PH section, I much prefer the Hyper Bowl ill informed usual PH bullst spread by the non owners.

Please can we just stick to the old wives tails please biggrin
Sorry to disappoint you, but 3 years with a 12C and 1 water pump and a door lock failure, I have no warranty and never more than £1,800 in servicing per annum. Bloody awesome cars TBF, but enough of the positivity. It has lost about £30K in 3 years though, there is some balance for you biggrin.




Brital

105 posts

59 months

Thursday 14th February
quotequote all
355spiderguy said:
To be fair, as i am not looking to trade in, if a private seller had a fully Mac serviced 650 spider that had the Mclaren warranty at a below dealer price i would definitely consider it..although i would again try to negotiate an inspection and another yrs extension to the warranty ( probably making a contribution ).

On the flip side, and this is aimed at long term owners, in your experience if you banked the warranty cost ( £3k to £5k dependant on age ) into a, say, McLaren fund, do you feel confident enough that you would not spend more than that a year on repairs? From previous reading, yes there are the odd niggles but the 650 seems to be better built than rushed out models.

The *yawn* gearbox issue reminds me of the valve guide issue years and years ago on F355s; effected a handful of people on early cars but to this day the story has grown arms and legs fed by forum experts whom in most cases never even owned a Ferrari.

For all my reading on the 650, there does not seem to much goes wrong with them so am i over focussing on the warranty side?

If any long term owners can post genuine experience rather than the usual suspects it would be very helpful.
2014 650 Spider. Only issue, covered without quibble under extended warranty, was replace hydraulic reservoirs on suspension system. Servicing costs same as for AM. Car still like new and remains an amazingly quick and comfortable ride. It's a keeper.

BlackR8

140 posts

15 months

Thursday 14th February
quotequote all
Juno said:
These are the very issues that have put me off buying a Mclaren to date;

1. Outrageous servicing costs
2. Outrageous warranty costs
3. Outrageous repair costs if no warranty
4. Come sale time know one actually wants to buy it back so you are stuck with SOR route
5. To SOR the car you the owner will be stung for £3500.00 minumum plus vat and have to have the car srviced and pay for a warranty at another cost of circa £5k
6. That;s going to cost you nearly £10k just to sell the dam thing after you have owned it at the end of 1 or 2 years,totally absurd and crazy!!!

Comparison

I sold my Lambo private 2-1/2 years old, no issues as it had a 4 years warranty,service cost £1200

Porsche GT cars,2 year servicing circa £500-£800 and warranty circa £2k for another 2 years i think plus a few hundred quid for the multi check

Mclaren need to learn from the above or they will just burn their customer base into oblivion

I would actually like to try one but not until all of the above has been sorted out!!!
I personally think the bashing of McLaren on their Warranty costs is a bit harsh! Is it £5k for a warranty no matter the age? I was under the impression the warranty is cheaper than this if the car is newer.

I know that the Ferrari Power Warranty for older cars is around £3k+VAT so thats not a million miles off the McLaren warranty and from owners experiences the McLaren warranty coverage is pretty comprehensive.

Juno

2,818 posts

187 months

Thursday 14th February
quotequote all
Cockernee said:
tyrrell said:
Its very disappointing when people come along with the facts on the McLaren PH section, I much prefer the Hyper Bowl ill informed usual PH bullst spread by the non owners.

Please can we just stick to the old wives tails please biggrin
Sorry to disappoint you, but 3 years with a 12C and 1 water pump and a door lock failure, I have no warranty and never more than £1,800 in servicing per annum. Bloody awesome cars TBF, but enough of the positivity. It has lost about £30K in 3 years though, there is some balance for you biggrin.
I was extremely close to putting down a deposit on a lovely orange 12c at AB several years ago. The car was £124995 or thereabouts at the time!

I definitely wanted the car as my number 1 choice at the time,Alistair was very informative about the whole Mac thing but something just left me uncertain. Yes we expect to loose a few bob as it’s inevitable but even back then the alarm bells were ringing.I then nearly pulled the trigger on a 570 but didn’t. I went Lambo then Porsche so missed scratching the Mclaren itch!its still itching but sometimes scratching makes you sore!!!

The 720 is defo tugging at me but as before but hindsight has shown me that the 12c and 570 foray would have cost me some £70k in depreciation over the two cars plus running and SOR costs to get out! Even without a calculator that’s going to be a pile of cash which to me spoils the fun of owning the cars.

In comparison the Lambo & Porsche have only hit me around 8k in depreciation,with no warranty cost or service on the Porsche and £2k spent on the Lambo for servicing including tyres. Lambo Sold private Porsche part ex’d So not SOR costs either.

If youve got £70-£80k to throw in the bin over 2-3 years for a few thousand miles of fun then good luck to you.

Sadly I will have to watch from the sidelines until there is some certainty in the longer term ownership costs!

Edited by Juno on Thursday 14th February 12:09

MDL111

3,129 posts

115 months

Thursday 14th February
quotequote all
am by now really looking forward to the days when GT Porsches depreciate normally again, so they no longer get pulled out as an example of cheap driving when comparing to McLaren (completely different market segments anyway imo) - and I am sure they will eventually given the number of cars Porsche is pumping out, just a matter of time. The GT2 I owned halved in value over the first 5 years of its life (by 2014) - which is a cool 90-100k euros or thereabouts in depreciation (and that was a rare car, only c 330 GT2 CS built and c 1,100 in total from memory).

Matty3

117 posts

22 months

Thursday 14th February
quotequote all
Juno said:
Cockernee said:
tyrrell said:
Its very disappointing when people come along with the facts on the McLaren PH section, I much prefer the Hyper Bowl ill informed usual PH bullst spread by the non owners.

Please can we just stick to the old wives tails please biggrin
Sorry to disappoint you, but 3 years with a 12C and 1 water pump and a door lock failure, I have no warranty and never more than £1,800 in servicing per annum. Bloody awesome cars TBF, but enough of the positivity. It has lost about £30K in 3 years though, there is some balance for you biggrin.
I was extremely close to putting down a deposit on a lovely orange 12c at AB several years ago. The car was £124995 or thereabouts at the time!

I definitely wanted the car as my number 1 choice at the time,Alistair was very informative about the whole Mac thing but something just left me uncertain. Yes we expect to loose a few bob as it’s inevitable but even back then the alarm bells were ringing.I then nearly pulled the trigger on a 570 but didn’t. I went Lambo then Porsche so missed scratching the Mclaren itch!its still itching but sometimes scratching makes you sore!!!

The 720 is defo tugging at me but as before but hindsight has shown me that the 12c and 570 foray would have cost me some £70k in depreciation over the two cars plus running and SOR costs to get out! Even without a calculator that’s going to be a pile of cash which to me spoils the fun of owning the cars.

In comparison the Lambo & Porsche have only hit me around 8k in depreciation,with no warranty cost or service on the Porsche and £2k spent on the Lambo for servicing including tyres. Lambo Sold private Porsche part ex’d So not SOR costs either.

If youve got £70-£80k to throw in the bin over 2-3 years for a few thousand miles of fun then good luck to you.

Sadly I will have to watch from the sidelines until there is some certainty in the longer term ownership costs!

Edited by Juno on Thursday 14th February 12:09
Why wait? - you could die tomorrow? money comes and goes, time just goes - make the most of it smile

Superleg48

482 posts

71 months

Thursday 14th February
quotequote all
Matty3 said:
Why wait? - you could die tomorrow? money comes and goes, time just goes - make the most of it smile
Sums it up perfectly really.

Algarve

278 posts

19 months

Friday 15th February
quotequote all
Superleg48 said:
Matty3 said:
Why wait? - you could die tomorrow? money comes and goes, time just goes - make the most of it smile
Sums it up perfectly really.
Because for a lot of us not losing your shirt on the current car will dictate what/when we can buy next.

I wouldn't have minded trying a McLaren but I've lost pretty much nothing sitting in a Gallardo and that huge 5 figure sum I didn't lose goes in the pot towards a Huracan when I can afford it smile