Discussion
Mclarens haven't seen the same meteoric appreciation of some of their competitors in Ferrari, Lamborghini and Porsche but prices bottomed out 2/3 years ago and bounced back a little and have stabilised for now.
As the brand continues to grow and people come to appreciate how good they are they may play catch up and buck the trend when the bubble bursts and others come down ( which they have to ).
Sorry but given a choice of buying a 997.1 GT3 or a F430 or a 12C at similar money is a no brainer for me. I would take the 12 C everytime
In 3 years time I don't think you would of made £25k on the 12C but you certainly wouldn't lose as much as the equivalent GT3 or F430 purchased at todays prices.
Demand for Mclarens is continually increasing and early entry models will always be appealing at the £100k price point compared with the more established brands with older and inferior products.
When the new younger generation of supercar owners come aboard the volumes of early models will struggle to keep pace with the increasing demand due to low production fixed volumes but that may be another 10 years away.
If you have done well out of the GT3 and fancy a change now would be a good time to cash in and a 12C would be a great place to reinvest it whilst upgrading IMHO
As the brand continues to grow and people come to appreciate how good they are they may play catch up and buck the trend when the bubble bursts and others come down ( which they have to ).
Sorry but given a choice of buying a 997.1 GT3 or a F430 or a 12C at similar money is a no brainer for me. I would take the 12 C everytime
In 3 years time I don't think you would of made £25k on the 12C but you certainly wouldn't lose as much as the equivalent GT3 or F430 purchased at todays prices.
Demand for Mclarens is continually increasing and early entry models will always be appealing at the £100k price point compared with the more established brands with older and inferior products.
When the new younger generation of supercar owners come aboard the volumes of early models will struggle to keep pace with the increasing demand due to low production fixed volumes but that may be another 10 years away.
If you have done well out of the GT3 and fancy a change now would be a good time to cash in and a 12C would be a great place to reinvest it whilst upgrading IMHO
RamboLambo said:
Mclarens haven't seen the same meteoric appreciation of some of their competitors in Ferrari, Lamborghini and Porsche but prices bottomed out 2/3 years ago and bounced back a little and have stabilised for now.
As the brand continues to grow and people come to appreciate how good they are they may play catch up and buck the trend when the bubble bursts and others come down ( which they have to ).
Sorry but given a choice of buying a 997.1 GT3 or a F430 or a 12C at similar money is a no brainer for me. I would take the 12 C everytime
In 3 years time I don't think you would of made £25k on the 12C but you certainly wouldn't lose as much as the equivalent GT3 or F430 purchased at todays prices.
Demand for Mclarens is continually increasing and early entry models will always be appealing at the £100k price point compared with the more established brands with older and inferior products.
When the new younger generation of supercar owners come aboard the volumes of early models will struggle to keep pace with the increasing demand due to low production fixed volumes but that may be another 10 years away.
If you have done well out of the GT3 and fancy a change now would be a good time to cash in and a 12C would be a great place to reinvest it whilst upgrading IMHO
I love my gt3 but drove a 12c and 570s courtesy of Ascot mclaren last weekend. I was very impressed. Time for a change now.As the brand continues to grow and people come to appreciate how good they are they may play catch up and buck the trend when the bubble bursts and others come down ( which they have to ).
Sorry but given a choice of buying a 997.1 GT3 or a F430 or a 12C at similar money is a no brainer for me. I would take the 12 C everytime
In 3 years time I don't think you would of made £25k on the 12C but you certainly wouldn't lose as much as the equivalent GT3 or F430 purchased at todays prices.
Demand for Mclarens is continually increasing and early entry models will always be appealing at the £100k price point compared with the more established brands with older and inferior products.
When the new younger generation of supercar owners come aboard the volumes of early models will struggle to keep pace with the increasing demand due to low production fixed volumes but that may be another 10 years away.
If you have done well out of the GT3 and fancy a change now would be a good time to cash in and a 12C would be a great place to reinvest it whilst upgrading IMHO
RamboLambo said:
Mclarens haven't seen the same meteoric appreciation of some of their competitors in Ferrari, Lamborghini and Porsche but prices bottomed out 2/3 years ago and bounced back a little and have stabilised for now.
As the brand continues to grow and people come to appreciate how good they are they may play catch up and buck the trend when the bubble bursts and others come down ( which they have to ).
Sorry but given a choice of buying a 997.1 GT3 or a F430 or a 12C at similar money is a no brainer for me. I would take the 12 C everytime
In 3 years time I don't think you would of made £25k on the 12C but you certainly wouldn't lose as much as the equivalent GT3 or F430 purchased at todays prices.
Demand for Mclarens is continually increasing and early entry models will always be appealing at the £100k price point compared with the more established brands with older and inferior products.
When the new younger generation of supercar owners come aboard the volumes of early models will struggle to keep pace with the increasing demand due to low production fixed volumes but that may be another 10 years away.
If you have done well out of the GT3 and fancy a change now would be a good time to cash in and a 12C would be a great place to reinvest it whilst upgrading IMHO
you don't half talk some crap gary As the brand continues to grow and people come to appreciate how good they are they may play catch up and buck the trend when the bubble bursts and others come down ( which they have to ).
Sorry but given a choice of buying a 997.1 GT3 or a F430 or a 12C at similar money is a no brainer for me. I would take the 12 C everytime
In 3 years time I don't think you would of made £25k on the 12C but you certainly wouldn't lose as much as the equivalent GT3 or F430 purchased at todays prices.
Demand for Mclarens is continually increasing and early entry models will always be appealing at the £100k price point compared with the more established brands with older and inferior products.
When the new younger generation of supercar owners come aboard the volumes of early models will struggle to keep pace with the increasing demand due to low production fixed volumes but that may be another 10 years away.
If you have done well out of the GT3 and fancy a change now would be a good time to cash in and a 12C would be a great place to reinvest it whilst upgrading IMHO
evodarren said:
Just wondered how people feel the prices of the 12c will be in a few years.
My 997.1 gt3 has gone up by about 25k in the last 5 years which I've owned it. Seemed to have settled now.
Thanks Darren
Don't expect to make money on it and you won't be disappointed. My 997.1 gt3 has gone up by about 25k in the last 5 years which I've owned it. Seemed to have settled now.
Thanks Darren
If you want to make money or not lose money at least, stick with the Porsche.
A12c will cost you £5k a year in warranty and servicing, plus consumables.
Buy the right car and you'll be fine, but that applies to any car and any marque.
RamboLambo said:
Ferruccio said:
My guess would be 50% of what they are today.
And not as much cr4p as this statementIt is my view.
It may turn out to be wrong or to be right, but it is my honestly held view.
My father started buying sports(super) cars in the 60s and has owned many.
I bought my first in 1987.
So having watched the market for 40+ years, through the ups and the downs, I do have view.
Ferruccio said:
RamboLambo said:
Ferruccio said:
My guess would be 50% of what they are today.
And not as much cr4p as this statementIt is my view.
It may turn out to be wrong or to be right, but it is my honestly held view.
My father started buying sports(super) cars in the 60s and has owned many.
I bought my first in 1987.
So having watched the market for 40+ years, through the ups and the downs, I do have view.
We've all been watching the same market for decades, we've all be watching the same trends, so why do you think the relatively solid residuals on the 12c are just a short-term blip?
The Surveyor said:
Ferruccio said:
RamboLambo said:
Ferruccio said:
My guess would be 50% of what they are today.
And not as much cr4p as this statementIt is my view.
It may turn out to be wrong or to be right, but it is my honestly held view.
My father started buying sports(super) cars in the 60s and has owned many.
I bought my first in 1987.
So having watched the market for 40+ years, through the ups and the downs, I do have view.
We've all been watching the same market for decades, we've all be watching the same trends, so why do you think the relatively solid residuals on the 12c are just a short-term blip?
Asset prices have been materially inflated by historically low interest rates - effectively zero.
US rates have started to rise. EU rates may start to rise too. UK may or may not but we are a small and shrinking part of the global super car market.
Interest rate rises will be a shock to many.
Equity markets may be over valued.
The price of some cars is already lower than in 2014.
The UK housing market is uncertain and in London it is struggling.
Brexit may become a real mess and there is lots of other geopolitical risk out there.
Lots of fabulous new cars are being produced every month. The reality is that the supply is there to meet whatever the demand is.
Petrol will get ever closer to disappearing. The French have already talked about banning it by 2040.
Just my view as to one possible scenario.
I'm not selling any of my cars; I love them for what they are.
And I've got others on my list to buy. I need to build some more garage space first.
But IF depreciation mattered to me, I would have a concern on a 5 year view about any of the modern cars other than the really low production number cars.
Ferruccio said:
The Surveyor said:
Ferruccio said:
RamboLambo said:
Ferruccio said:
My guess would be 50% of what they are today.
And not as much cr4p as this statementIt is my view.
It may turn out to be wrong or to be right, but it is my honestly held view.
My father started buying sports(super) cars in the 60s and has owned many.
I bought my first in 1987.
So having watched the market for 40+ years, through the ups and the downs, I do have view.
We've all been watching the same market for decades, we've all be watching the same trends, so why do you think the relatively solid residuals on the 12c are just a short-term blip?
Asset prices have been materially inflated by historically low interest rates - effectively zero.
US rates have started to rise. EU rates may start to rise too. UK may or may not but we are a small and shrinking part of the global super car market.
Interest rate rises will be a shock to many.
Equity markets may be over valued.
The price of some cars is already lower than in 2014.
The UK housing market is uncertain and in London it is struggling.
Brexit may become a real mess and there is lots of other geopolitical risk out there.
Lots of fabulous new cars are being produced every month. The reality is that the supply is there to meet whatever the demand is.
Petrol will get ever closer to disappearing. The French have already talked about banning it by 2040.
Just my view as to one possible scenario.
I'm not selling any of my cars; I love them for what they are.
And I've got others on my list to buy. I need to build some more garage space first.
But IF depreciation mattered to me, I would have a concern on a 5 year view about any of the modern cars other than the really low production number cars.
The bookies favourite to be next PM is Jeremy Corbyn.
If he is Prime Minister, supercar owners and potential owners will be paying very considerably more tax; and interest rates are very likely to rise, perhaps a lot.
There are only so many older RHD Macs that will find a market in Japan, South Africa or Singapore.
My word, what a bleak picture you have painted there... that's really quite depressing.
Even if all those negatives align, you may see an initial flurry of market activity from those who see their car collection as a pure investment, the 12c doesn't fall into the 'investment' bracket so won't be exposed to the same boom and bust as others (Ferrari). As you said you will be likely to just keep your cars in the event of an economic slow down, like may other will and that will also temper any reductions.
I'd certainly rather invest in a McLaren than put the money of Corbyn becoming the next PM!
oh, and let us know what you have in your garage so somebody can offer you 50% now to save you the worry over the next 5 years
Even if all those negatives align, you may see an initial flurry of market activity from those who see their car collection as a pure investment, the 12c doesn't fall into the 'investment' bracket so won't be exposed to the same boom and bust as others (Ferrari). As you said you will be likely to just keep your cars in the event of an economic slow down, like may other will and that will also temper any reductions.
I'd certainly rather invest in a McLaren than put the money of Corbyn becoming the next PM!
oh, and let us know what you have in your garage so somebody can offer you 50% now to save you the worry over the next 5 years
I think much of the above is correct, and the 50% depreciation applies to the whole over inflated car market...which will crash at some point. How the 12c fairs only time will tell. On the positive side it is undervalued compared to its true rivals, so in the worst case 50% of a lesser amount is is less hard cash, and as the brand becomes more established and demand/awareness picks up then maybe there will be some offset to the above.
The UK market however is tiny when compared to an ever growing Asian market so maybe that will become a market for good second hand cars? Also as time goes by there will be less 12c`s around for all sorts of reasons which might have a positive effect.
The UK market however is tiny when compared to an ever growing Asian market so maybe that will become a market for good second hand cars? Also as time goes by there will be less 12c`s around for all sorts of reasons which might have a positive effect.
I also think the car market as a whole is overvalued and will see a correction, as a result I would not be comfortable buying a car with a view that it will depreciate little and imo that applies pretty much across the spectrum. I don't think we have a new re-adjusted normal where F40s will always be a million, limited Porsches half a mil etc. Not so long ago you could pick up an F40 for 300k, who is to say this will never happen again.
There is an awful lot of cars being produced in the supercar spectrum and Porsche keeps banging out new RS models on a - seemingly - 6-monthly basis. A lot of supply.... sth will have to give eventually once the macro factors start to hit
Just spend the money, enjoy the car and forget about its value..... treat it like a TV (ie sunk cost) and you'll be happier imo
There is an awful lot of cars being produced in the supercar spectrum and Porsche keeps banging out new RS models on a - seemingly - 6-monthly basis. A lot of supply.... sth will have to give eventually once the macro factors start to hit
Just spend the money, enjoy the car and forget about its value..... treat it like a TV (ie sunk cost) and you'll be happier imo
That seems very plausible ...
Not the best reason at the moment to re-mortgage the home or invest the tax free lump sum from your pension ...
But, by comparison to a new purchase which can only, logically, go south ... a nice "collectible" could be just as much fun and the 12C is certainly heavily discounted from new ...
It was the pinnacle of McLaren when new ...
Not the best reason at the moment to re-mortgage the home or invest the tax free lump sum from your pension ...
But, by comparison to a new purchase which can only, logically, go south ... a nice "collectible" could be just as much fun and the 12C is certainly heavily discounted from new ...
It was the pinnacle of McLaren when new ...
As an owner for the past 18 months I monitor 12C prices constantly. In December 2015 a 5-10k mile 2011 was £115k. In July 2017 a 10-20k mile 2011 is £115k. They haven't depreciated, even if you have driven 5-10k miles. Of course you would have paid the warranty and if you didn't add any miles you might have made a theoretical £5-10k profit,
I don't agree with the view they will be £50k in 3 years. There will be a purchasable warranty until 12 years old and a warrantied supercar for less than a lightly used M3 or TTRS isnt going to happen. Most 720S's will have a purchase price of £240-280k, they will probably by slightly over for 12 months until supply meets demand. This should ensure McLaren prices stay firm There are only 280 12C's in the UK, they are exceedingly limited in supply and therefore very rare, a lot rarer than GT3's.
The price of new 720S's and the limited supply of 12C's combined with the excellent value for money and performance compared to other supercars should keep prices firm and stable (A 12C is a lot quicker and more usable than a 458 or Huracan, having driven all 3 IMHO). Unless there is an economic calamity I can't see them dropping and if there is a calamity everything will drop and I will be buying an F40 or even an F1 so happy days :-)
The crunch time will be around 12 years old, so 2023. When the warranties run out. As an owner I am under no illusion that these cars will be expensive to run outside of the warranty. The warranty is a must, in fact at £3,500 a year its a bargain. However we all expect there will be good independents by that time so that may not be an issue. Also there will be faster newer cars and the 12C will be a 'classic' by then. I expect they will be locked away and pampered by collectors as the first of McLarens production cars. It is well known that the first 100 cars manufactured in the technology center are already being singled out and purchased by collectors as a future classic.
So my own opinion is prices will be more or less where they are until 2023 so you should be able to buy in relative comfort. In 2023 a lot will depend on how McLaren as a brand is performing and the warranty / independent situation. There may be a wobble for the next 2-5 years and then I expect them to climb as rarity takes hold. I would think by 2030 they will be back to the original list price in today's money, perhaps more.
So until 2023 prices steady, 2023-2030 unsure, 2030+ up. This is my view for what its worth. 12C amazing car, nothing better at the price, expect some niggles but they are stunning in every way.
I don't agree with the view they will be £50k in 3 years. There will be a purchasable warranty until 12 years old and a warrantied supercar for less than a lightly used M3 or TTRS isnt going to happen. Most 720S's will have a purchase price of £240-280k, they will probably by slightly over for 12 months until supply meets demand. This should ensure McLaren prices stay firm There are only 280 12C's in the UK, they are exceedingly limited in supply and therefore very rare, a lot rarer than GT3's.
The price of new 720S's and the limited supply of 12C's combined with the excellent value for money and performance compared to other supercars should keep prices firm and stable (A 12C is a lot quicker and more usable than a 458 or Huracan, having driven all 3 IMHO). Unless there is an economic calamity I can't see them dropping and if there is a calamity everything will drop and I will be buying an F40 or even an F1 so happy days :-)
The crunch time will be around 12 years old, so 2023. When the warranties run out. As an owner I am under no illusion that these cars will be expensive to run outside of the warranty. The warranty is a must, in fact at £3,500 a year its a bargain. However we all expect there will be good independents by that time so that may not be an issue. Also there will be faster newer cars and the 12C will be a 'classic' by then. I expect they will be locked away and pampered by collectors as the first of McLarens production cars. It is well known that the first 100 cars manufactured in the technology center are already being singled out and purchased by collectors as a future classic.
So my own opinion is prices will be more or less where they are until 2023 so you should be able to buy in relative comfort. In 2023 a lot will depend on how McLaren as a brand is performing and the warranty / independent situation. There may be a wobble for the next 2-5 years and then I expect them to climb as rarity takes hold. I would think by 2030 they will be back to the original list price in today's money, perhaps more.
So until 2023 prices steady, 2023-2030 unsure, 2030+ up. This is my view for what its worth. 12C amazing car, nothing better at the price, expect some niggles but they are stunning in every way.
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