Enhancing a 650s

[Wilmslowboy]

Ant397 said:

Thanks for the responses guys, all very valued and understood.

........

Having now seen you on the road , I can vouch the last thing you need is more power


I was the silver 650s going northbound on the A34


PS - Black on a 650s looked bloody good !!!

[isaldiri]

Ant397 said:

However, as well rounded a package as the 650s is, I do now after just over a weeks ownership find it lacking in power at top end, you can feel it drop off and there is absolutely no need to rev it past 7000 as nothing happens. To change early in the rev band to keep a car in the power band takes some of the fun out of it. I'm very well accustomed to driving around problems having raced for many years, owned race teams, my last race car was a 2012 championship winning a Porsche 997 GT3 Cup car... but it's from this, that I can feel the car has more to give. I can feel it being held back, for whatever reasons and it's from this, that I know the car is a package as is has more to give that is going to unlock it.

Are you seriously expecting a relatively small capacity, highly boosted turbo engine to have the same powerband characteristics of as a high revving normally aspirated engine?

Mclaren have tried to keep people happy by allowing the engine to rev up to 8500 which is quite unusual for a turbo already. Expecting it to continue producing power like a NA engine high up the rev range especially as it very definitely hits you with a huge amount of torque from 4+k is a bit unrealistic surely?

Edited by isaldiri on Sunday 24th September 16:37

[foxsasha]

isaldiri said:

Are you seriously expecting a relatively small capacity, highly boosted turbo engine to have the same powerband characteristics of as a high revving normally aspirated engine?

Mclaren have tried to keep people happy by allowing the engine to rev up to 8500 which is quite unusual for a turbo already. Expecting it to continue producing power like a NA engine high up the rev range especially as it very definitely hits you with a huge amount of torque from 4+k is a bit unrealistic surely?

Rather than rolling over and accepting the status quo he will have a go and see what can actually be done. Bravo. Takes a brave man to tinker with a 200k supercar. Wonder what boost they hold at 8k+rpm in the upper gears.

I for one look forward to the results, warts and all.

[DashboardD]

foxsasha said:

isaldiri said:

Are you seriously expecting a relatively small capacity, highly boosted turbo engine to have the same powerband characteristics of as a high revving normally aspirated engine?

Mclaren have tried to keep people happy by allowing the engine to rev up to 8500 which is quite unusual for a turbo already. Expecting it to continue producing power like a NA engine high up the rev range especially as it very definitely hits you with a huge amount of torque from 4+k is a bit unrealistic surely?

Rather than rolling over and accepting the status quo he will have a go and see what can actually be done. Bravo. Takes a brave man to tinker with a 200k supercar. Wonder what boost they hold at 8k+rpm in the upper gears.

I for one look forward to the results, warts and all.

^ +1 Also looking forward to seeing what fizz can be found (without subsequent bangs) from 7k+ RPM too!

[likesachange]

Just seen on FB that ES are starting to tune mclarens... just done a custom tune on a MP4-12c and tested the 100-200kmh run
Stock 6.1
Tune. 4.8

So on par with the 720s with the tune ...

[Ant397]

Wilmslowboy said:

Having now seen you on the road , I can vouch the last thing you need is more power


I was the silver 650s going northbound on the A34


PS - Black on a 650s looked bloody good !!!

Haha I wondered if it was you! I sent you a pm on 'that other forum' before, to say hi!! 😁

Your car was seriously clean today, looked very nice indeed pal!

[Ant397]

isaldiri said:

Are you seriously expecting a relatively small capacity, highly boosted turbo engine to have the same powerband characteristics of as a high revving normally aspirated engine?

Mclaren have tried to keep people happy by allowing the engine to rev up to 8500 which is quite unusual for a turbo already. Expecting it to continue producing power like a NA engine high up the rev range especially as it very definitely hits you with a huge amount of torque from 4+k is a bit unrealistic surely?

Edited by isaldiri on Sunday 24th September 16:37

Erm No, that's not my viewpoint whatsoever, but as much as I can understand that it is plenty for 90% of drivers, you must be able to allow that some drivers that have experience with a vast plethora of cars, with all the variable characteristics of petrol, diesel, NA and forced induction, may be able to sense and feel an engine that is being held back through software or where compromises have been made to cater for the masses. As a purist and perfectionist, those things really get to me, so as I have the desire and ability to do something about it with my car, then why not?? If it gives me a car that I know is underneath, just waiting to be released then why not? If you're happy, then.im perfectly ok with that.

New software will allow it to rev, keep Boost and pull harder to redline, I'm not asking for Cup car rev'ability, but it's proper crap when you can sense it's being limited and isn't natural...

Edited by Ant397 on Sunday 24th September 21:19

[Ant397]

likesachange said:

Just seen on FB that ES are starting to tune mclarens... just done a custom tune on a MP4-12c and tested the 100-200kmh run
Stock 6.1
Tune. 4.8

So on par with the 720s with the tune ...

Sounds fair, what is their website pal, I e just found an ES Tuning, but they're in Turkey...

[Turbo cab]

Ant397 said:

New software will allow it to rev, keep Boost and pull harder to redline, I'm not asking for Cup car rev'ability, but it's proper crap when you can sense it's being limited and isn't natural...

This.

I had my 570s mapped by DMS and cannot recommend it enough.

It really gives the car what it was lacking, especially the flat spot they suffer with when changing from first to second on the limit.

It also eats 488's and F12's for breaky now which is always nice.

[wessexrfc]

Turbo cab said:

Ant397 said:

New software will allow it to rev, keep Boost and pull harder to redline, I'm not asking for Cup car rev'ability, but it's proper crap when you can sense it's being limited and isn't natural...

This.

I had my 570s mapped by DMS and cannot recommend it enough.

It really gives the car what it was lacking, especially the flat spot they suffer with when changing from first to second on the limit.

It also eats 488's and F12's for breaky now which is always nice.

So what is it now running at torque and bhp, how does this effect your warranty??

[likesachange]

Ant397 said:

Sounds fair, what is their website pal, I e just found an ES Tuning, but they're in Turkey...

Sorry, ESS tuning, massive Porsche tuning outfit regularly winning the Vmax events.

Have dealers all over the world with a few in the UK
http://esstuning.com/dealers/

[Turbo cab]

wessexrfc said:

So what is it now running at torque and bhp, how does this effect your warranty??

I have no Idea as i haven't had it on the rolling road. Generally speaking i don't read to much into these numbers anyway - The best way to tell is 60-130 on a vbox but I have not had a chance.

All i know is when i first got the 570s we ran it side by side against my 488 and the 488 had it by about half a car length.

Now the 488 is slower than the F12 going from a rolling start and I had a play with one of these and absolutely spanked it .

It really is night and day and turns a quick car into a silly quick car.

[likesachange]

Just seen on FB that ES are starting to tune mclarens... just done a custom tune on a MP4-12c and tested the 100-200kmh run
Stock 6.1
Tune. 4.8

So on par with the 720s with the tune ...

[Turbo cab]

likesachange said:

Just seen on FB that ES are starting to tune mclarens... just done a custom tune on a MP4-12c and tested the 100-200kmh run
Stock 6.1
Tune. 4.8

So on par with the 720s with the tune ...

With the addition of Turbos, Catless down pipes and a bottle of octane booster to run alongside the tune, Very impressive nether the less.

ES are at the top of there game when it comes to Porsche s so im excited to see what they have in store for Mac.

[Leon R]

Have you got the cash (and the inclination) to spend the money on fitting a third turbo?

[WCZ]

there's a new video on smee's youtube channel racing a standard 570s, tuned (+100bhp) 570s and his 675lt
the standard car was the fastest because of traction issues

[The Surveyor]

WCZ said:

there's a new video on smee's youtube channel racing a standard 570s, tuned (+100bhp) 570s and his 675lt
the standard car was the fastest because of traction issues

Yes, watched that and couldn't get my head around just how much faster their 'standard' 570s was compared to his 675LT and the tuned car. Yes it was faster in a rolling-start situation but it just looked like all the extra power had made gains in all the wrong areas. Faster at really silly speed but no real gains at 'just a little silly' speeds.

[MDL111]

anybody seen the Matt Farrah video about the Hypercar Developments 12C with 3 turbos - sounds like an insane car to have. If I had too much money, I would be quite tempted by that

[ttexige]

Have Thorney figured out a safe way to map the 650s now? 2017 they were saying they couldn’t do it now it’s back on the website? Litchfield also map them now? What was the problem with mapping them a few years ago and what’s changed now?

[12pack]

Interesting to read back through this old thread.

As an earlier poster said, unless one is interested in drag races on a sticky drag strip, not really sure why one would want to remap. Just my opinion. Also, unlike the OP I do find my 650 still lunging forward we’ll past 7k revs. I think this is one of the differences compared to the sports series cars.

Anyway for me the most significant updgrade has simply been spacers for better front end grip, which is by far the biggest limiter for the 650 on track. With the spacers I can now match my Atom for the speed I can carry into corners. And of course it’s no contest on exit.