Delivery Mileage F1, Anyone?

[Patrick-Peter]

Its a funny ol' world...
Here is a F1 car that will likely never be used and is worth north of 20million and on the other side of the world in a Brunei collection around five low milers F1 cars sit rotting away.

[Drclarke]

Patrick-Peter said:

Its a funny ol' world...
Here is a F1 car that will likely never be used and is worth north of 20million and on the other side of the world in a Brunei collection around five low milers F1 cars sit rotting away.

Interesting.

In that case the Tom Hartley car is almost certainly not the lowest mileage car as he is claiming?

[robm3]

Patrick-Peter said:

Its a funny ol' world...
Here is a F1 car that will likely never be used and is worth north of 20million and on the other side of the world in a Brunei collection around five low milers F1 cars sit rotting away.

That's right, there was a great article in a car mag many years ago about a chap trying to buy one from the Sultan's family ( a disgraced family member I believe). It was in a terrible state due to humidity. From memory he got as far as tacit approval from various family members but was stumped by the local governments refusal to release for re-export.
Fascinating story, does anyone have the link anymore?

Ps he also made mention of the 200 or 300 other classics rotting away in a humid warehouse..

Edited by robm3 on Thursday 19th October 23:35

[Gav147]

He has quite the collection yes, no idea about the story you mention but there is a list of some of the cars here

I'm not sure just how true that list is but it does have plates for most of them, here are the f1's from it :

MCL F1 GTR NONE FIGTR009
MCL F1 BN3388 SA9AB5AC3R1048005
MCL F1 BN2008 SA9AB5AC4R1048014
MCL F1 LM KF90 SA9AB5AC9T1048LM1
MCL F1 LM BP75 SA9AB5AC4T1048LM4
MCL F1 BN73 SA9AB5AC9R1048008
MCL F1 LM BM2208 SA9AB5AC6T1048LM5
MCL F1 BN1954 SA9AB5AC1P1048002
MCL F1 GT BQ7551 SA9AR5BC8T1048054

[suffolk009]

Gav147 said:

He has quite the collection yes, no idea about the story you mention but there is a list of some of the cars here

I'm not sure just how true that list is but it does have plates for most of them, here are the f1's from it :

MCL F1 GTR NONE FIGTR009
MCL F1 BN3388 SA9AB5AC3R1048005
MCL F1 BN2008 SA9AB5AC4R1048014
MCL F1 LM KF90 SA9AB5AC9T1048LM1
MCL F1 LM BP75 SA9AB5AC4T1048LM4
MCL F1 BN73 SA9AB5AC9R1048008
MCL F1 LM BM2208 SA9AB5AC6T1048LM5
MCL F1 BN1954 SA9AB5AC1P1048002
MCL F1 GT BQ7551 SA9AR5BC8T1048054

Imagine what would happen to values of F1s if he got bored with them and dumped the whole lot into an auction?

Seriously though, I think given the number that the Sultan owns (at least one is likely to be delivery miles), and allegedly Mansour Ohjeh's car and the other mystery client owned one on the Boulevard at the MTC, we can say that the Hartley Jr car is not unique.

[MarkM3Evoplus]

robm3 said:

Patrick-Peter said:

Its a funny ol' world...
Here is a F1 car that will likely never be used and is worth north of 20million and on the other side of the world in a Brunei collection around five low milers F1 cars sit rotting away.

That's right, there was a great article in a car mag many years ago about a chap trying to buy one from the Sultan's family ( a disgraced family member I believe). It was in a terrible state due to humidity. From memory he got as far as tacit approval from various family members but was stumped by the local governments refusal to release for re-export.
Fascinating story, does anyone have the link anymore?

Ps he also made mention of the 200 or 300 other classics rotting away in a humid warehouse..

Edited by robm3 on Thursday 19th October 23:35

All those cars & money and he doesn't stretch to fit a dehumidifier......shouldn't be allowed to have a decent cars!

[isaldiri]

suffolk009 said:

Seriously though, I think given the number that the Sultan owns (at least one is likely to be delivery miles), and allegedly Mansour Ohjeh's car and the other mystery client owned one on the Boulevard at the MTC, we can say that the Hartley Jr car is not unique.

There's also still afaik one in Singapore that almost certainly has never been used as it would have been impossible to road register and you'd have to pay an astronomical amount of car tax even if you could register it. 2 years ago that car still had totally unused original goodyears on and there's nothing to make one think anything has changed.

[BlimeyCharlie]

"Bloke down the pub says his mate has a Bengal Tiger he keeps in a lock-up garage..."

[Cheib]

flemke said:

rubystone said:

flemke said:

These dealers that occasionally have very expensive cars on sale often do not pay for the cars out of their own pockets even when the car has been bought outright. They will get one or more wealthy backers to put up most or all of the money and then split the profits accordingly. I would not know if that happened in this case, but it is common with big-ticket motors.

Very astute. Whilst the likes of JD Classics get column inches when Di Montezemelo buys in, the fact that some of the ‘players’ in this market are backed by some of the highest rollers in the world often goes unnoticed.

Whilst thinking about these types of high profile car, it occurred to me that if you had a significant car collection, it’d make a lot of sense to back a player to ensure a route to market that wouldn’t raise suspicion and thus maximise the bang for your buck.

The owner of one very well-known dealer at the high end has told me that, starting about five years ago when the market began its major ascent, they simply could no longer afford to pay for all the stock that they used to carry as normal. That forced them to go to some wealthy clients for backing and partnership on a car-by-car basis.

This is very similar to how the major auction houses operate....mate of mine was CFO of one of them,

When a major work of art comes up for auction they will underwrite the value and that used to be done solely by the auction houses....that went very badly wrong in 2007/8.

Now when a major work comes up it's generally underwritten by someone who already owns similar works by the same artist....that person gets paid an underwriting fee and also receives some of the commission that the auction house receives.

[flemke]

suffolk009 said:

Gav147 said:

He has quite the collection yes, no idea about the story you mention but there is a list of some of the cars here

I'm not sure just how true that list is but it does have plates for most of them, here are the f1's from it :

MCL F1 GTR NONE FIGTR009
MCL F1 BN3388 SA9AB5AC3R1048005
MCL F1 BN2008 SA9AB5AC4R1048014
MCL F1 LM KF90 SA9AB5AC9T1048LM1
MCL F1 LM BP75 SA9AB5AC4T1048LM4
MCL F1 BN73 SA9AB5AC9R1048008
MCL F1 LM BM2208 SA9AB5AC6T1048LM5
MCL F1 BN1954 SA9AB5AC1P1048002
MCL F1 GT BQ7551 SA9AR5BC8T1048054

Imagine what would happen to values of F1s if he got bored with them and dumped the whole lot into an auction?

Seriously though, I think given the number that the Sultan owns (at least one is likely to be delivery miles), and allegedly Mansour Ohjeh's car and the other mystery client owned one on the Boulevard at the MTC, we can say that the Hartley Jr car is not unique.

Actually, if Brunei were to do that, if anything I think it would help the prices. There would be so much publicity that the sale/auction would attract massive attention and draw numerous potential buyers out of the weeds. There is no shortage of people floating around who would love to own one of these cars and have the means to pay for it.

[Purso]

You know you have a serious collection when (if that article is correct) you have 134 Koenigseggs, I didnt even know they made that many.

[flemke]

Purso said:

You know you have a serious collection when (if that article is correct) you have 134 Koenigseggs, I didnt even know they made that many.

According to their own website, Koenigsegg have been building IRO 10-12 cars a year. Unless pretty much no-one else in the world owns one....
I thought that Brunei's amassing of flash cars stopped quite a few years ago when the Sultan put the binders on his kid brother Prince Jefri, who was accused of embezzling billions and was tossed out of the country.

[Purso]

I did think that there hadn't been much in the news in recent years re new acquisitions.

[Patrick-Peter]

flemke said:

suffolk009 said:

Gav147 said:

He has quite the collection yes, no idea about the story you mention but there is a list of some of the cars here

I'm not sure just how true that list is but it does have plates for most of them, here are the f1's from it :

MCL F1 GTR NONE FIGTR009
MCL F1 BN3388 SA9AB5AC3R1048005
MCL F1 BN2008 SA9AB5AC4R1048014
MCL F1 LM KF90 SA9AB5AC9T1048LM1
MCL F1 LM BP75 SA9AB5AC4T1048LM4
MCL F1 BN73 SA9AB5AC9R1048008
MCL F1 LM BM2208 SA9AB5AC6T1048LM5
MCL F1 BN1954 SA9AB5AC1P1048002
MCL F1 GT BQ7551 SA9AR5BC8T1048054

Imagine what would happen to values of F1s if he got bored with them and dumped the whole lot into an auction?

Seriously though, I think given the number that the Sultan owns (at least one is likely to be delivery miles), and allegedly Mansour Ohjeh's car and the other mystery client owned one on the Boulevard at the MTC, we can say that the Hartley Jr car is not unique.

Actually, if Brunei were to do that, if anything I think it would help the prices. There would be so much publicity that the sale/auction would attract massive attention and draw numerous potential buyers out of the weeds. There is no shortage of people floating around who would love to own one of these cars and have the means to pay for it.

Yes I agree - there just isn't enough F1s about and there are tons of wealthy people that would want and outbid each other to the stratosphere for them thus raising prices of existing F1s .
But its all hypothetical as those F1s will never be rescued.

[Muzzer79]

robm3 said:

Patrick-Peter said:

Its a funny ol' world...
Here is a F1 car that will likely never be used and is worth north of 20million and on the other side of the world in a Brunei collection around five low milers F1 cars sit rotting away.

That's right, there was a great article in a car mag many years ago about a chap trying to buy one from the Sultan's family ( a disgraced family member I believe). It was in a terrible state due to humidity. From memory he got as far as tacit approval from various family members but was stumped by the local governments refusal to release for re-export.
Fascinating story, does anyone have the link anymore?

Ps he also made mention of the 200 or 300 other classics rotting away in a humid warehouse..

Edited by robm3 on Thursday 19th October 23:35

I believe the article alluded to the fact that the really nice stuff like the F1s were looked after rather better than the 'Snotter' Mercedes, etc that were left out in the Brunei sun.

That said, they must be gathering dust now, unless the Sultan has moved them to his private car collection underneath his palace.

One hopes so as there's a lot of history sat in those garages.

[flemke]

Muzzer79 said:

robm3 said:

Patrick-Peter said:

Its a funny ol' world...
Here is a F1 car that will likely never be used and is worth north of 20million and on the other side of the world in a Brunei collection around five low milers F1 cars sit rotting away.

That's right, there was a great article in a car mag many years ago about a chap trying to buy one from the Sultan's family ( a disgraced family member I believe). It was in a terrible state due to humidity. From memory he got as far as tacit approval from various family members but was stumped by the local governments refusal to release for re-export.
Fascinating story, does anyone have the link anymore?

Ps he also made mention of the 200 or 300 other classics rotting away in a humid warehouse..

Edited by robm3 on Thursday 19th October 23:35

I believe the article alluded to the fact that the really nice stuff like the F1s were looked after rather better than the 'Snotter' Mercedes, etc that were left out in the Brunei sun.

That said, they must be gathering dust now, unless the Sultan has moved them to his private car collection underneath his palace.

One hopes so as there's a lot of history sat in those garages.

Not all the F1s have been looked after properly. In places some of the plastics have deteriorated and deformed owing to their lengthy exposure to heat.

[Frik]

At least one of those F1s came back on the market. Similar colour to this TH car. It was in a pretty shocking state before it was recommisioned by McLaren.

Where the hell is Erik anyway? He'd know.

[Drclarke]

Patrick-Peter said:

Yes I agree - there just isn't enough F1s about and there are tons of wealthy people that would want and outbid each other to the stratosphere for them thus raising prices of existing F1s .
But its all hypothetical as those F1s will never be rescued.

But according to social media this one has been for sale on and off for a few years and didn't sell.

The fact that it's still for sale a week later is quite telling. I imagine whoever has lent Hartley the money to buy this example will be getting fidgity soon!

[Gary C]

Davey S2 said:

Incredible. Real piece of history but agree a real shame whoever ordered it never got to drive it.

How do you know ?, maybe he had two

[Patrick-Peter]

Drclarke said:

Patrick-Peter said:

Yes I agree - there just isn't enough F1s about and there are tons of wealthy people that would want and outbid each other to the stratosphere for them thus raising prices of existing F1s .
But its all hypothetical as those F1s will never be rescued.

But according to social media this one has been for sale on and off for a few years and didn't sell.

The fact that it's still for sale a week later is quite telling. I imagine whoever has lent Hartley the money to buy this example will be getting fidgity soon!

True..
However the fact that this F1 is a "non" driver might be working against it. Who wants to pay 20million for an F1 that will never be driven?. If it had been a low miler it may have attracted a bigger market interest.