New car - The McLaren Senna
Discussion
I’m a huge Mclaren fan but that is hideous.
But the “lucky” 500 owners will have pumped another £1 billion of revenue into the company and so it continues - the race to extract as many dollars as they can before the music stops.
The problem now is that the power differences between each new limited release is no longer significant. So what exactly are incremental buyers purchasing - another limited edition swimming in an ocean of other “limited editions”.
A decade ago driving a supercar on the road was “justifiable” because it was so much faster than standard cars. It made a point. But when a £45k rs3 unmodified has been clocked at under 3.7s 0-60 it’s all becoming a bit of a pantomime isn’t it?
In another decade when your bog standard electric mom and pop car can outperform any ICE driven vehicle I suspect “tooling” around in a £250k supercar will be somewhat embarrassing. It’s all a bit depressing to be honest.
But the “lucky” 500 owners will have pumped another £1 billion of revenue into the company and so it continues - the race to extract as many dollars as they can before the music stops.
The problem now is that the power differences between each new limited release is no longer significant. So what exactly are incremental buyers purchasing - another limited edition swimming in an ocean of other “limited editions”.
A decade ago driving a supercar on the road was “justifiable” because it was so much faster than standard cars. It made a point. But when a £45k rs3 unmodified has been clocked at under 3.7s 0-60 it’s all becoming a bit of a pantomime isn’t it?
In another decade when your bog standard electric mom and pop car can outperform any ICE driven vehicle I suspect “tooling” around in a £250k supercar will be somewhat embarrassing. It’s all a bit depressing to be honest.
WDISMYL said:
But the “lucky” 500 owners will have pumped another £1 billion of revenue into the company and so it continues
Come again? 499 x £750k + £2m for the last auctioned car. Give or take some GTRs which are imo certain to come, and even allowing for some insane MSO work, how do you get £1b?was expecting much more from the car tbh. 1198kg dry weight isn't anything like as much lighter I was led to believe when I was told about the car in development 2 years ago and the car is running the same hardware as the road cars as compared to what I had hoped would be motorsport spec hardware for a possible GTE type race car. Fully fuelled the car quite probably isn't going to be much more than 50-60kg lighter than a lightweight spec 675?
Ok there's a lot of aero going on and it's very track focused but who on earth are you going to go out on track with? on a normal trackday, even one that's mainly frequented with 'merely' standard Mclaren/Ferraris etc, if you're a decent driver most of them are just going to be in the way a lot of the time and somehow i very much doubt anyone with such a car is ever going to turn up to a test day with proper race cars around who will be rather closer to the kind of pace the car is supposed to be able to run at.
isaldiri said:
WDISMYL said:
But the “lucky” 500 owners will have pumped another £1 billion of revenue into the company and so it continues
Come again? 499 x £750k + £2m for the last auctioned car. Give or take some GTRs which are imo certain to come, and even allowing for some insane MSO work, how do you get £1b?was expecting much more from the car tbh. 1198kg dry weight isn't anything like as much lighter I was led to believe when I was told about the car in development 2 years ago and the car is running the same hardware as the road cars as compared to what I had hoped would be motorsport spec hardware for a possible GTE type race car. Fully fuelled the car quite probably isn't going to be much more than 50-60kg lighter than a lightweight spec 675?
Ok there's a lot of aero going on and it's very track focused but who on earth are you going to go out on track with? on a normal trackday, even one that's mainly frequented with 'merely' standard Mclaren/Ferraris etc, if you're a decent driver most of them are just going to be in the way a lot of the time and somehow i very much doubt anyone with such a car is ever going to turn up to a test day with proper race cars around who will be rather closer to the kind of pace the car is supposed to be able to run at.
Also we must bear in mind that, of the £750k, £125k would be VAT, so £625k x 500 to the McLaren entity. Take out the dealers' cut, and the base price revenue to McLaren Group will be less than £300m. That fact doesn't make the car any prettier, but at least it creates a more realistic context in which we can criticise it.
isaldiri said:
......
Ok there's a lot of aero going on and it's very track focused but who on earth are you going to go out on track with? on a normal trackday, even one that's mainly frequented with 'merely' standard Mclaren/Ferraris etc, if you're a decent driver most of them are just going to be in the way a lot of the time and somehow i very much doubt anyone with such a car is ever going to turn up to a test day with proper race cars around who will be rather closer to the kind of pace the car is supposed to be able to run at.
That doesn't really matter in the world of 'one up man ship' thought, if it's ground-breaking fast and sets new lap records, including beating the Performante around the 'ring with a genuine time, then it would put McLaren back at the top of the supercar tree. Job done.Ok there's a lot of aero going on and it's very track focused but who on earth are you going to go out on track with? on a normal trackday, even one that's mainly frequented with 'merely' standard Mclaren/Ferraris etc, if you're a decent driver most of them are just going to be in the way a lot of the time and somehow i very much doubt anyone with such a car is ever going to turn up to a test day with proper race cars around who will be rather closer to the kind of pace the car is supposed to be able to run at.
I think its another car like the 720S where it actually looks better physically than in a photo but even so the side angle view is just hideous.
The front and rear look good but the proportions and bubble car cabin from the side look so, so wrong. Hideous.
Never thought I would say it but even the 720S looks respectable and more cohesive a design than this.
650S and 675LT are the best looking McLarens
The front and rear look good but the proportions and bubble car cabin from the side look so, so wrong. Hideous.
Never thought I would say it but even the 720S looks respectable and more cohesive a design than this.
650S and 675LT are the best looking McLarens
flemke said:
Hey, must you bring some actual arithmetic into this discussion?
Also we must bear in mind that, of the £750k, £125k would be VAT, so £625k x 500 to the McLaren entity. Take out the dealers' cut, and the base price revenue to McLaren Group will be less than £300m. That fact doesn't make the car any prettier, but at least it creates a more realistic context in which we can criticise it.
His £1bn arithmetic is as bad as you understanding of revenue, but I get you point Also we must bear in mind that, of the £750k, £125k would be VAT, so £625k x 500 to the McLaren entity. Take out the dealers' cut, and the base price revenue to McLaren Group will be less than £300m. That fact doesn't make the car any prettier, but at least it creates a more realistic context in which we can criticise it.
isaldiri said:
WDISMYL said:
But the “lucky” 500 owners will have pumped another £1 billion of revenue into the company and so it continues
Come again? 499 x £750k + £2m for the last auctioned car. Give or take some GTRs which are imo certain to come, and even allowing for some insane MSO work, how do you get £1b?It was an honest mistake rather than an attempt to juice the argument.
But my point remains that I think the supercar market is rapidly losing its raison d’etre. They have always been follys to enjoy but their relative performance to the mainstream was significant. At what point do you look a bit silly when everyone is driving a car on the road that has similar performance?
The P1 wowed at the time because of its hybrid technology. This is meant to be the next iteration. To me it’s a 720s with a very expensive body kit applied to it. The tyres will probably be more important than the aero numbers. Maybe I’m getting old, but I just don’t see the attraction or the point.
Adam B said:
flemke said:
Hey, must you bring some actual arithmetic into this discussion?
Also we must bear in mind that, of the £750k, £125k would be VAT, so £625k x 500 to the McLaren entity. Take out the dealers' cut, and the base price revenue to McLaren Group will be less than £300m. That fact doesn't make the car any prettier, but at least it creates a more realistic context in which we can criticise it.
His £1bn arithmetic is as bad as you understanding of revenue, but I get you point Also we must bear in mind that, of the £750k, £125k would be VAT, so £625k x 500 to the McLaren entity. Take out the dealers' cut, and the base price revenue to McLaren Group will be less than £300m. That fact doesn't make the car any prettier, but at least it creates a more realistic context in which we can criticise it.
This car will be fast but that won’t put them at the top of the tree - otherwise someone like Koenigsegg are there now. And, well, they aren’t are they?
It is disturbingly ugly, which I believe is a mistake. Even if it needed to be that ugly to extract the last ounce of trackspeed (which it probably doesn’t), it’s a mistake. It is still a roadcar so doesn’t it need to look good? Spending the last few tenths on a shape that encourages you to drive it, and makes you feel better for doing so, would see to be important to me.
Wish they hadn’t called it Senna either.
It is disturbingly ugly, which I believe is a mistake. Even if it needed to be that ugly to extract the last ounce of trackspeed (which it probably doesn’t), it’s a mistake. It is still a roadcar so doesn’t it need to look good? Spending the last few tenths on a shape that encourages you to drive it, and makes you feel better for doing so, would see to be important to me.
Wish they hadn’t called it Senna either.
LukeyLikey said:
This car will be fast but that won’t put them at the top of the tree - otherwise someone like Koenigsegg are there now. And, well, they aren’t are they?
It is disturbingly ugly, which I believe is a mistake. Even if it needed to be that ugly to extract the last ounce of trackspeed (which it probably doesn’t), it’s a mistake. It is still a roadcar so doesn’t it need to look good? Spending the last few tenths on a shape that encourages you to drive it, and makes you feel better for doing so, would see to be important to me.
Wish they hadn’t called it Senna either.
Just as well you're not getting one all things considered It is disturbingly ugly, which I believe is a mistake. Even if it needed to be that ugly to extract the last ounce of trackspeed (which it probably doesn’t), it’s a mistake. It is still a roadcar so doesn’t it need to look good? Spending the last few tenths on a shape that encourages you to drive it, and makes you feel better for doing so, would see to be important to me.
Wish they hadn’t called it Senna either.
A lot more detail for those interested. https://www.topgear.com/videos/supercars/video-clo...
Brakes are special Carbon Ceramic that take 7 months to make..... well they're not going to be cheap are they(?)
Brakes are special Carbon Ceramic that take 7 months to make..... well they're not going to be cheap are they(?)
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