12c under £90k
Discussion
Bispal said:
The warranty has increased by £1,500. Yes its a bit of a shock but it is a supercar and the warranty cover is exceptional. To put it into perspective in 2 years of 12C ownership I have only spent £1k on a service plus tyres and the warranty. Not a penny more. It has been cheaper than my 996C2 on which I spent £7k in one visit to a specialist. My 1985 M635 which also cost me £7k in repairs in one year and my E39 M5 that cost me £5k in one year. My F355 is also around £5k in the past 12 months and even My S1 Elise was £2k. My point is that once you pay for the warranty and service there is nothing more to pay and McLarens are supercars with performance that blows 99.9% of all other cars away. They are excellent value just now so pick up a winter bargain and the overall running costs will still probably be less than some normal sports or classic cars.
In a few years very few will have the McLaren warranty as the independents will be well established and the high repair costs will no longer exist.
You are comparing a very short period of ownership cost of the Mclaren vs maximum repair cost of a much older car out of however long you have owned them and think it is in any shape or form a reasonable comparison? If your 996 or e39 m5 was warrantied you would have likely paid a lot less. You want to compare non warranty repair cost of the Mclaren (and not even worse case maximum that some have been hit by) to all your above and see how it compares for a more accurate comparison? In a few years very few will have the McLaren warranty as the independents will be well established and the high repair costs will no longer exist.
Replacement of the gearbox seals vs gearbox replacement isn't the only possible problem. To blanket claim 'high repair costs will no longer exist' is frankly ludicrous.
A wise man once told me never to insure a risk that you can afford.
It’s time that is the key factor here to me.
So I’ve owned my Countach for 25 years.
At £5k p.a for a warranty that’d be £125,000.
Have I spent anything like that on it? No.
My Jalpa 30 years = £150,000.
Diablo - 20 years = £100,000
Murcielago - 6 years = £30,000
Total = £405,000.
My bills, and there have been some big ones, add up to a lot less, having used a mixture of dealers and independents and I’ve kept the cars in reasonable nick.
Different, less complex, cars I know, but you get my point.
It’s time that is the key factor here to me.
So I’ve owned my Countach for 25 years.
At £5k p.a for a warranty that’d be £125,000.
Have I spent anything like that on it? No.
My Jalpa 30 years = £150,000.
Diablo - 20 years = £100,000
Murcielago - 6 years = £30,000
Total = £405,000.
My bills, and there have been some big ones, add up to a lot less, having used a mixture of dealers and independents and I’ve kept the cars in reasonable nick.
Different, less complex, cars I know, but you get my point.
Ferruccio said:
A wise man once told me never to insure a risk that you can afford.
It’s time that is the key factor here to me.
So I’ve owned my Countach for 25 years.
At £5k p.a for a warranty that’d be £125,000.
Have I spent anything like that on it? No.
My Jalpa 30 years = £150,000.
Diablo - 20 years = £100,000
Murcielago - 6 years = £30,000
Total = £405,000.
My bills, and there have been some big ones, add up to a lot less, having used a mixture of dealers and independents and I’ve kept the cars in reasonable nick.
Different, less complex, cars I know, but you get my point.
Apologies, but I think the quote at the top of your post is wide of the mark. This type of insurance is about peace of mind, which of course varies from person to person depending on your view of life, carefree attitude, a worrier, attitude to risk, etc. If it helps you sleep a little easier then it’s worth having and therefore it has to be a considered part of the ownership proposition. It’s time that is the key factor here to me.
So I’ve owned my Countach for 25 years.
At £5k p.a for a warranty that’d be £125,000.
Have I spent anything like that on it? No.
My Jalpa 30 years = £150,000.
Diablo - 20 years = £100,000
Murcielago - 6 years = £30,000
Total = £405,000.
My bills, and there have been some big ones, add up to a lot less, having used a mixture of dealers and independents and I’ve kept the cars in reasonable nick.
Different, less complex, cars I know, but you get my point.
You can argue that the McLaren is a superior car, you can argue that overall it might still be a bargain of the century. But....
... When / if I sell my 360, the replacement would almost certainly be a 458 or a 12C (or other McLaren if the used prices are similar). I would expect that I am the common used buyer for those kind of cars - couldn't afford a new one and trading up from a 'lesser' car. And I did seriously consider going the 12C route a year or two back.
However, I'm afraid the fact that they seem to depreciate faster (and I'm not just basing that on one ropey car), have much higher warranty cost now and are still very tied into main dealers means I simply wouldn't consider McLaren if I was changing now.
Call me paranoid if you like, but I'd say I am exactly the kind of person McLaren need to tempt away from established brands - and they seem to be achieving completely the opposite.
... When / if I sell my 360, the replacement would almost certainly be a 458 or a 12C (or other McLaren if the used prices are similar). I would expect that I am the common used buyer for those kind of cars - couldn't afford a new one and trading up from a 'lesser' car. And I did seriously consider going the 12C route a year or two back.
However, I'm afraid the fact that they seem to depreciate faster (and I'm not just basing that on one ropey car), have much higher warranty cost now and are still very tied into main dealers means I simply wouldn't consider McLaren if I was changing now.
Call me paranoid if you like, but I'd say I am exactly the kind of person McLaren need to tempt away from established brands - and they seem to be achieving completely the opposite.
Seems to me the market is working exactly how it should:
You get to buy a superior car for less capital (Mclaren) but the discount is somewhat offset by higher ownership costs (almost necessary warranty purchase).
What’s the problem?
With a Ferrari you get a cheaper cost of ownership but at a higher cost of capital. And then there is the small matter that Ferrari’s are much more sensitive to mileage so you can’t actually drive them as much as a Mclaren.
Seems a fair trade off. I don’t really understand the relative angst. People’s personalities and relative aversion to risk will dictate the brand.
Eventually Mclaren will catch up and the choice will be more similar.
You get to buy a superior car for less capital (Mclaren) but the discount is somewhat offset by higher ownership costs (almost necessary warranty purchase).
What’s the problem?
With a Ferrari you get a cheaper cost of ownership but at a higher cost of capital. And then there is the small matter that Ferrari’s are much more sensitive to mileage so you can’t actually drive them as much as a Mclaren.
Seems a fair trade off. I don’t really understand the relative angst. People’s personalities and relative aversion to risk will dictate the brand.
Eventually Mclaren will catch up and the choice will be more similar.
WDISMYL said:
And then there is the small matter that Ferrari’s are much more sensitive to mileage so you can’t actually drive them as much as a Mclaren.
Except that while McLaren has depreciated, other brands have enjoyed an increase. That may not be sustainable, but it means that in just over 4 years I've added about 12k miles to my 360 but could literally sell it tomorrow for what I paid for it. Even a dealer offered me £20k more than I paid for it 6 months ago.Sorry I forgot. Ferrari’s always go up and there will never be another boom and bust cycle in the supercar market.
Count yourself very lucky to have timed your purchase with the explosion in supercar prices from 2012. Don’t confuse a commodity cycle with a free money printing press.
I’m talking about a current decision between purchasing say a 488 and a 650s for example. Similar performance but a £80k spread. Cheaper to own the Ferrari but higher capital cost. When interest rates revert to 5% again - these subtle differences won’t stay so subtle.
Count yourself very lucky to have timed your purchase with the explosion in supercar prices from 2012. Don’t confuse a commodity cycle with a free money printing press.
I’m talking about a current decision between purchasing say a 488 and a 650s for example. Similar performance but a £80k spread. Cheaper to own the Ferrari but higher capital cost. When interest rates revert to 5% again - these subtle differences won’t stay so subtle.
davek_964 said:
You can argue that the McLaren is a superior car, you can argue that overall it might still be a bargain of the century. But....
... When / if I sell my 360, the replacement would almost certainly be a 458 or a 12C (or other McLaren if the used prices are similar). I would expect that I am the common used buyer for those kind of cars - couldn't afford a new one and trading up from a 'lesser' car. And I did seriously consider going the 12C route a year or two back.
However, I'm afraid the fact that they seem to depreciate faster (and I'm not just basing that on one ropey car), have much higher warranty cost now and are still very tied into main dealers means I simply wouldn't consider McLaren if I was changing now.
Call me paranoid if you like, but I'd say I am exactly the kind of person McLaren need to tempt away from established brands - and they seem to be achieving completely the opposite.
Or do what I did, rather than taking the 12c route into McLaren ownership, I bought a new 570's. Performance matches the 458 and is a real step up from a 360, costs the same brand new as a 5 year old 458, and comes with a full 3 year warranty. Yes, it'll depreciate but no worse than a 12c and year on year McLaren are improving their build quality whilst independent service agents are starting to come on-line, meaning maintenance costs are probably at their peak.... When / if I sell my 360, the replacement would almost certainly be a 458 or a 12C (or other McLaren if the used prices are similar). I would expect that I am the common used buyer for those kind of cars - couldn't afford a new one and trading up from a 'lesser' car. And I did seriously consider going the 12C route a year or two back.
However, I'm afraid the fact that they seem to depreciate faster (and I'm not just basing that on one ropey car), have much higher warranty cost now and are still very tied into main dealers means I simply wouldn't consider McLaren if I was changing now.
Call me paranoid if you like, but I'd say I am exactly the kind of person McLaren need to tempt away from established brands - and they seem to be achieving completely the opposite.
Everybody has different objectives and values, but may be worth a test-drive?
davek_964 said:
Except that while McLaren has depreciated, other brands have enjoyed an increase. That may not be sustainable, but it means that in just over 4 years I've added about 12k miles to my 360 but could literally sell it tomorrow for what I paid for it. Even a dealer offered me £20k more than I paid for it 6 months ago.
Is your car an investment ? If so Ferrari is the safe brand but as with most things in life there is a cost to enjoy driving a modern supercar. Some are prepared to pay that premium to drive something exclusive and superior whilst others aren't or simply can't afford to.
Should of taken your £20k premium and bought and run a 12C for 4 years IMHO
You pays your money and take your choice but at £100k the 12C is by far the best supercar on the market but comes with running costs in line with its list price
davek_964 said:
Except that while McLaren has depreciated, other brands have enjoyed an increase. That may not be sustainable, but it means that in just over 4 years I've added about 12k miles to my 360 but could literally sell it tomorrow for what I paid for it. Even a dealer offered me £20k more than I paid for it 6 months ago.
If your primary consideration is to buy a car that appreciates, quite seriously, standard model Mclarens aren't going to be for you. Just forget them and look at the 458s which may or may not go up further. No, my car was not an investment and I also expect the market to crash at some point.
My point really was that the 'Ferrari's are mileage sensitive' tends to get a bit over used. Sure it will reduce their sale price slightly but it's simply not true to say that doesn't affect McLaren's either.
It is also not just Ferrari that enjoyed those increases. Most high end cars did - and yet not McLaren.
Anyway, I'm sure they are great cars. My main point was simply that I am the target market for McLaren and I wouldn't buy one. Maybe I'm the only one - but I doubt it. It is a fact they that need to win customers from established brands, and that includes used buyers. At the moment, I don't think they are doing the things they need to ensure that happens - and £5k warranty costs is definitely not helpful.
'It's better / the best' simply isn't a good enough argument I'm afraid. It's hardly like the competition is a pile of crap is it?
My point really was that the 'Ferrari's are mileage sensitive' tends to get a bit over used. Sure it will reduce their sale price slightly but it's simply not true to say that doesn't affect McLaren's either.
It is also not just Ferrari that enjoyed those increases. Most high end cars did - and yet not McLaren.
Anyway, I'm sure they are great cars. My main point was simply that I am the target market for McLaren and I wouldn't buy one. Maybe I'm the only one - but I doubt it. It is a fact they that need to win customers from established brands, and that includes used buyers. At the moment, I don't think they are doing the things they need to ensure that happens - and £5k warranty costs is definitely not helpful.
'It's better / the best' simply isn't a good enough argument I'm afraid. It's hardly like the competition is a pile of crap is it?
Agreed, the 458 is also an excellent car. I also agree Mclaren are definitely not helping themselves make the older cars more attractive to buyers but I'm coming to the opinion that it is intentional as they are trying to drive up people to buy the newer cars that are in production and don't particularly give a damn what happened to older cars/buyers I have to say. Long term planning has not in my experience been the strong suit of the Mclaren Automotive management. The cars are good and always have been good. the question is whether a buyer can live with the associated issues.
I would suggest most of McLarens business is conquest sales especially with the sports series hence their meteoric increase in sales so sadly their current focus is more on the front end new car sales than worrying too much about 7 year old used cars.
Long term they definitely need to address this for the brand to continue to prosper and grow but Rome wasn't built overnight
Given the choice of a used 2006 Ferrari F430 at £100k and a used 2011 12C at the same price I know where I would put my money. warranty or no warranty
458 was a huge leap forward over F430 and some will argue 12C was another level again above 458.
You can't expect to run a champagne car on beer money so some peoples choice will be made for them due to the financials which is fair enough
Long term they definitely need to address this for the brand to continue to prosper and grow but Rome wasn't built overnight
Given the choice of a used 2006 Ferrari F430 at £100k and a used 2011 12C at the same price I know where I would put my money. warranty or no warranty
458 was a huge leap forward over F430 and some will argue 12C was another level again above 458.
You can't expect to run a champagne car on beer money so some peoples choice will be made for them due to the financials which is fair enough
WDISMYL said:
Sorry I forgot. Ferrari’s always go up and there will never be another boom and bust cycle in the supercar market.
Count yourself very lucky to have timed your purchase with the explosion in supercar prices from 2012. Don’t confuse a commodity cycle with a free money printing press.
I’m talking about a current decision between purchasing say a 488 and a 650s for example. Similar performance but a £80k spread. Cheaper to own the Ferrari but higher capital cost. When interest rates revert to 5% again - these subtle differences won’t stay so subtle.
Sensible posts and I think the right way to look at it. Most readers here will miss these points and trash the brand.Count yourself very lucky to have timed your purchase with the explosion in supercar prices from 2012. Don’t confuse a commodity cycle with a free money printing press.
I’m talking about a current decision between purchasing say a 488 and a 650s for example. Similar performance but a £80k spread. Cheaper to own the Ferrari but higher capital cost. When interest rates revert to 5% again - these subtle differences won’t stay so subtle.
Coming into McLaren ownership now you can get so much car for the money and with what you have saved over X car, pay for the warranty. As other posters have pointed out, my car has just cost me the warranty and service which is reasonable.... oh and some carbon luxury items I have added.
Easy for understanding and forecasting costs.
dobbie said:
New Warranty, new Mclaren Owners Service plan and potentially investment opportunity.
Ok, first off there are still some details to be finalised, my plan was to launch all this in March but changes from Mclaren and their warranty have meant I've had to accelerate a little, the salient details are correct but there maybe some small changes to come.
All of this was at the recent annual night out but it got a bit lost with everything sadly.
There are three parts, a new warranty for Mclaren owners, a new service plan and also a potential investment opportunity for those who may be interested.
Mclaren Warranty:
Full vehicle inspection
Unlimited mileage
12 month cover
£10,000 maximum (per claim, not total)
£500 xs (per period, not per claim)
£2850 per year
Warranty is for the car so transferrable
Mclaren Owners Service Plan
Full vehicle inspection
Free diagnostic checks
Free track day pre and post inspections
50% discount on all labour rates
Customised service plan and vehicle passport
£1250 one off payment
Plan is for the owner not the car, not transferrable
Buy both together save £100 - £4,000
I must emphasise this is not a generic warranty we have bought from a third party, its something we have developed specially for the cars based on what we have learnt over the last 3 years. For those who think it is cheap? Its not, its based on what we think will go wrong and also what we know goes wrong and how to fix it. It isnt a manufacturer warranty, we will repair and fix rather than just replace without question. We know these cars. The inspection is included in the cost.
We offer full UK wide collection and delivery at a cost of £1.20 per mile uncovered transport, £1.50 per mile for covered transport or free courtesy cars for those happy to drive their own car for service/work.
The investment opportunity is separate but first refusal will be given to owners wishing to participate. We have created a newco called Mclaren Silverstone Ltd and will be offering 24% of the issued shares to owners. A maximum of 1% per owner/investor is allowed at a soon to be announced valuation. The newco will be eligible for SEIS relief.
Lots of the details are still at the lawyers so it will take little time to complete, as I said I was planning on launching this Match 1st not end Jan, but Mclarens warranty for older cars just doesnt make financial sense for anyone so I've brought it forward.
Thanks for clarifying, This is excellent news :-) Ok, first off there are still some details to be finalised, my plan was to launch all this in March but changes from Mclaren and their warranty have meant I've had to accelerate a little, the salient details are correct but there maybe some small changes to come.
All of this was at the recent annual night out but it got a bit lost with everything sadly.
There are three parts, a new warranty for Mclaren owners, a new service plan and also a potential investment opportunity for those who may be interested.
Mclaren Warranty:
Full vehicle inspection
Unlimited mileage
12 month cover
£10,000 maximum (per claim, not total)
£500 xs (per period, not per claim)
£2850 per year
Warranty is for the car so transferrable
Mclaren Owners Service Plan
Full vehicle inspection
Free diagnostic checks
Free track day pre and post inspections
50% discount on all labour rates
Customised service plan and vehicle passport
£1250 one off payment
Plan is for the owner not the car, not transferrable
Buy both together save £100 - £4,000
I must emphasise this is not a generic warranty we have bought from a third party, its something we have developed specially for the cars based on what we have learnt over the last 3 years. For those who think it is cheap? Its not, its based on what we think will go wrong and also what we know goes wrong and how to fix it. It isnt a manufacturer warranty, we will repair and fix rather than just replace without question. We know these cars. The inspection is included in the cost.
We offer full UK wide collection and delivery at a cost of £1.20 per mile uncovered transport, £1.50 per mile for covered transport or free courtesy cars for those happy to drive their own car for service/work.
The investment opportunity is separate but first refusal will be given to owners wishing to participate. We have created a newco called Mclaren Silverstone Ltd and will be offering 24% of the issued shares to owners. A maximum of 1% per owner/investor is allowed at a soon to be announced valuation. The newco will be eligible for SEIS relief.
Lots of the details are still at the lawyers so it will take little time to complete, as I said I was planning on launching this Match 1st not end Jan, but Mclarens warranty for older cars just doesnt make financial sense for anyone so I've brought it forward.
WCZ said:
if you own 3 cars for example then as per the above examples it would add up quickly. £150,000 over ten years is simply too much imo
But its not 3 cars, its one car. Its £2,850pa. We are not talking about 3 cars and we are not talking about owning them for all for 10 years.Ferrari power warranty (correct me if I am wrong) for V8 models is £2,900 + vat for Year 5 (£3,480) so its more expensive than Thorney's or £1,500 less than McLarens (which both inc. vat)
Anyway A 2011 12C is around £100k whereas a 2011 458 is £140k. £40k is 26 years of driving at £1,500 pa!
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