The Grand Tour 650S/720S Lap Times

The Grand Tour 650S/720S Lap Times

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Discussion

DashboardD

Original Poster:

35 posts

84 months

Tuesday 30th January 2018
quotequote all
Got round to watching The Grand Tour Season 2 (episode 4) where the 720S was tested. Much to my surprise, the 720S got the identical lap time to the 650S of 1:17:90. Now, I don’t remember the 650 being tested in past episodes of either TG or TGT. Can anyone confirm or deny?
I felt that the vague comments around the 650S being on Trofeo R tyres were all a bit convenient, particularly, as they were never a factory option besides the completely different Corsas (which McLaren have said aren’t as good as the new ‘standard’ PZero fitted to the 720). Again, please feel free to correct any of my misunderstandings, but did anyone else think that this was all a little too convenient a retrospective justification to pacify the new ‘better, newer, more expensive’ halo car?

AndyGarton

399 posts

206 months

Tuesday 30th January 2018
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Yes. The Grand Tour isn't fact focused!

HighwayStar

4,215 posts

143 months

Tuesday 30th January 2018
quotequote all
DashboardD said:
Got round to watching The Grand Tour Season 2 (episode 4) where the 720S was tested. Much to my surprise, the 720S got the identical lap time to the 650S of 1:17:90. Now, I don’t remember the 650 being tested in past episodes of either TG or TGT. Can anyone confirm or deny?
I felt that the vague comments around the 650S being on Trofeo R tyres were all a bit convenient, particularly, as they were never a factory option besides the completely different Corsas (which McLaren have said aren’t as good as the new ‘standard’ PZero fitted to the 720). Again, please feel free to correct any of my misunderstandings, but did anyone else think that this was all a little too convenient a retrospective justification to pacify the new ‘better, newer, more expensive’ halo car?
I really wouldn't take the TGT lap time stuff seriously or even a review... The 650S's time is just a time on the board. We don't know when it was done, was it on the same day/same conditions, same driver? Clarkson makes a lot of sweeping, dismissive, statements and some people seem to take his pronouncements as Thee Gospel itself. I doubt a 650S would be that close to a 720 tested on the same day same conditions.
From the latest TG trailer, the 720 will be driven in the new series. Chris Harries rates it highly and that was on the TG Speed Week road trip which included the Ford GT, Performante and 911 GT3 among others. At end of the day it's all just someone's opinion. Or in the case of TG Speed Week, there collective opinion.
https://www.topgear.com/car-news/big-reads/top-gea...

RamboLambo

4,843 posts

169 months

Tuesday 30th January 2018
quotequote all
Underestimate the 650S at your peril !!!! Its about useable power and there is a limit to how much you can put down through a RWD car.

Now if its a 4 x 4 like the Lamborghini Huracan Performante that's a different matter and one of the reasons the Lambo is re writing the record books

Yipper

5,964 posts

89 months

Tuesday 30th January 2018
quotequote all
The 720S laptimes have been bad, everywhere.

It's been a complete disaster round the Nurburgring, for example.

HighwayStar

4,215 posts

143 months

Tuesday 30th January 2018
quotequote all
Yipper said:
The 720S laptimes have been bad, everywhere.

It's been a complete disaster round the Nurburgring, for example.
Hmmmm scratchchin

http://fastestlaps.com/tests/hhz524sg3m1m



mickv

84 posts

90 months

Tuesday 30th January 2018
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Nobody's mentioned the obvious - 720 was driven by a woman

Streetrod

6,468 posts

205 months

Tuesday 30th January 2018
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Yipper said:
The 720S laptimes have been bad, everywhere.

It's been a complete disaster round the Nurburgring, for example.
\
For goodness sake just shut up, could you be anymore boring????

Bunty Killa

517 posts

198 months

Tuesday 30th January 2018
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I'm guessing the 675LT beats them both

VR6VR6

253 posts

242 months

Tuesday 30th January 2018
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TG and TGT lap times are complete rubbish.

My car set the old TG lap record in 2008 (Gumpert Apollo Sport) on a warm up lap so they made excuses that time was limited and they couldn't get any more laps in!

The Stig (Ben Collins at the time - actually a nice bloke) had also done dozens of laps in the car the previous 2 Wednesdays (we had to travel down 3 times in total for filming etc) yet it was presented as "he has only just seen the car" which was rubbish.

We weren;t allowed to set geo, tyre pressures or anything and it was no SHOCK that my car broke the record by 0.1 secs!

The timing is done with a Stop Watch which is conveniently "Started" when the operator feels like it and then "Stopped" bang on the button of the time that they want!

A mate that was with me on the day (ex BTCC driver) said that he could have knocked 1.5 secs of the Stigs time but NO, they were happy with what they had bagged!

I had been an avid TG fan for many many years and the experience shattered my illusions and I have never gone out of my way to watch the program since - I haven't watched a single episode of TGT at all!

All of the above is obviously without prejudice but was seen with my own eyes - yet is only my opinion (legal cover etc).

Edited by VR6VR6 on Tuesday 30th January 15:39

HighwayStar

4,215 posts

143 months

Tuesday 30th January 2018
quotequote all
VR6VR6 said:
TG and TGT lap times are complete rubbish.

My car set the old TG lap record in 2008 (Gumpert Apollo Sport) on a warm up lap so they made excuses that time was limited and they couldn't get any more laps in!

The Stig (Ben Collins at the time - actually a nice bloke) had also done dozens of laps in the car the previous 2 Wednesdays (we had to travel down 3 times in total for filming etc) yet it was presented as "he has only just seen the car" which was rubbish.

We weren;t allowed to set geo, tyre pressures or anything and it was no SHOCK that my car broke the record by 0.1 secs!

The timing is done with a Stop Watch which is conveniently "Started" when the operator feels like it ans then "Stopped" bang on the button of the time that they want!

I had been an avid TG fan for many many years and the experience shattered my illusions and I have never gone out of my way to watch the program since - I haven't watched a single episode of TGT at all!

All of the above is obviously without prejudice but was seen with my own eyes - yet is only my opinion (legal cover etc).
Totally believable, no timing equipment is ever seen or spoken of. Like Yipper, there is just no reason to take much they say seriously.


VR6VR6

253 posts

242 months

Tuesday 30th January 2018
quotequote all
VR6VR6 said:
TG and TGT lap times are complete rubbish.

My car set the old TG lap record in 2008 (Gumpert Apollo Sport) on a warm up lap so they made excuses that time was limited and they couldn't get any more laps in!

The Stig (Ben Collins at the time - actually a nice bloke) had also done dozens of laps in the car the previous 2 Wednesdays (we had to travel down 3 times in total for filming etc) yet it was presented as "he has only just seen the car" which was rubbish.

We weren't allowed to set geo, tyre pressures or anything and it was no SHOCK that my car broke the record by 0.1 secs!

The timing is done with a Stop Watch which is conveniently "Started" when the operator feels like it and then "Stopped" bang on the button of the time that they want!

A mate that was with me on the day (ex BTCC driver) said that he could have knocked 1.5 secs of the Stigs time but NO, they were happy with what they had bagged!

I had been an avid TG fan for many many years and the experience shattered my illusions and I have never gone out of my way to watch the program since - I haven't watched a single episode of TGT at all!

All of the above is obviously without prejudice but was seen with my own eyes - yet is only my opinion (legal cover etc).

That episode was the very same one where a certain Singer (known for wearing hats!) reclaimed his position as "The Fastest" celebrity in the Reasonable Priced Car from his 3 laps.

He had spent over an hour flying around the track lap after lap with continued advice from the Stig but he was actually getting slower as the tyres and brakes on the car were getting more and more "shot". BUT - amazingly he just managed to do the fastest lap on his last go (the Stopwatch stopped before he had even taken the last corner) - ABSOLUTE TOSH!

Edited by VR6VR6 on Tuesday 30th January 15:39

Craigwww

853 posts

168 months

Tuesday 30th January 2018
quotequote all
RamboLambo said:
Underestimate the 650S at your peril !!!! Its about useable power and there is a limit to how much you can put down through a RWD car.

Now if its a 4 x 4 like the Lamborghini Huracan Performante that's a different matter and one of the reasons the Lambo is re writing the record books
You've changed your tune now you're buying one... only slightly predictable, but at least I can agree with you this.

TP321

1,475 posts

197 months

Tuesday 30th January 2018
quotequote all
The 720s lap time doesn’t surprise me...the company is not interested nor do they do any preparation to ensure that these tests go their way. They cars are provided with the wrong tyres and wrong set up, whilst the Italians do the exact opposite. After all, it’s the customer who will suffer with excess depreciation, whilst they pump out even more “special editions”...

Even the mighty 675lt is not immune..prices dropping to well under list now, with many languishing in the classifieds for months now.

Ever since Ron Denis left, McLaren is not McLaren. Bruce McLaren had nothing to do with the McLaren we knew in the 80s, 90s, and 00s...It was all Ron, and now that he is gone, they are left with a bunch of Arabs, who are only interested with volume production and endless variants of the same engine/chassis...

A very sorry state of affairs....

HighwayStar

4,215 posts

143 months

Tuesday 30th January 2018
quotequote all
TP321 said:
The 720s lap time doesn’t surprise me...the company is not interested nor do they do any preparation to ensure that these tests go their way. They cars are provided with the wrong tyres and wrong set up, whilst the Italians do the exact opposite. After all, it’s the customer who will suffer with excess depreciation, whilst they pump out even more “special editions”...

Even the mighty 675lt is not immune..prices dropping to well under list now, with many languishing in the classifieds for months now.

Ever since Ron Denis left, McLaren is not McLaren. Bruce McLaren had nothing to do with the McLaren we knew in the 80s, 90s, and 00s...It was all Ron, and now that he is gone, they are left with a bunch of Arabs, who are only interested with volume production and endless variants of the same engine/chassis...

A very sorry state of affairs....
Same old same old from you... all that because TGT could be arsed to do their job properly. Ferrari turn up with a car so optimised no owners car would get near it.
The things with people like you and Yipper is it doesn’t matter to either of you if the 720 was 2 10ths slower than the Performante or even a bit faster... you’d still peddle your BS. You don’t like Mclaren, we get it.
Interestingly Evo, Top Gear Magazine and Road & Track have the 720S as their car of the year. TG & R&T had the 911 GT3 and Performante in the group as well... so what do you have to say about that then? wink

RamboLambo

4,843 posts

169 months

Tuesday 30th January 2018
quotequote all
720S is an amazing car, with that there is no doubt but for me personally it does not do enough in the sound and excitement departments as well as having a Hyper car look I struggle with especially the headlights STILL.

Be interesting to see how the 750 LT version goes, sounds and looks..

675LT prices have softened and only the mega spec cars with MSO option overload are under list but that's to be expected really.
I was offered a sensible specced 100 mile 2016 675 LT spider at its list price of £300k and regret not buying it a little now even though the 650S is 90% of the car for 50% of the price

andyvdg

1,536 posts

282 months

Tuesday 30th January 2018
quotequote all
Yipper said:
The 720S laptimes have been bad, everywhere.

It's been a complete disaster round the Nurburgring, for example.
Ok I cracked. I actually took a look on YouTube of the laps referenced here of the Nürburgring by the Lambo and the 720s as you bang on about them all the time. Seriously ? And what am I to make of you from the conclusions you draw?

HighwayStar

4,215 posts

143 months

Tuesday 30th January 2018
quotequote all
andyvdg said:
Yipper said:
The 720S laptimes have been bad, everywhere.

It's been a complete disaster round the Nurburgring, for example.
Ok I cracked. I actually took a look on YouTube of the laps referenced here of the Nürburgring by the Lambo and the 720s as you bang on about them all the time. Seriously ? And what am I to make of you from the conclusions you draw?
I tried to ignore it, especially when you must have the feeling he doesn’t actually care about what anyone’s response is. I’ve not seen him engage with anyone on the forum... and yet, we respond to his posts.

Yipper

5,964 posts

89 months

Tuesday 30th January 2018
quotequote all
HighwayStar said:
TP321 said:
The 720s lap time doesn’t surprise me...the company is not interested nor do they do any preparation to ensure that these tests go their way. They cars are provided with the wrong tyres and wrong set up, whilst the Italians do the exact opposite. After all, it’s the customer who will suffer with excess depreciation, whilst they pump out even more “special editions”...

Even the mighty 675lt is not immune..prices dropping to well under list now, with many languishing in the classifieds for months now.

Ever since Ron Denis left, McLaren is not McLaren. Bruce McLaren had nothing to do with the McLaren we knew in the 80s, 90s, and 00s...It was all Ron, and now that he is gone, they are left with a bunch of Arabs, who are only interested with volume production and endless variants of the same engine/chassis...

A very sorry state of affairs....
Same old same old from you... all that because TGT could be arsed to do their job properly. Ferrari turn up with a car so optimised no owners car would get near it.
The things with people like you and Yipper is it doesn’t matter to either of you if the 720 was 2 10ths slower than the Performante or even a bit faster... you’d still peddle your BS. You don’t like Mclaren, we get it.
Interestingly Evo, Top Gear Magazine and Road & Track have the 720S as their car of the year. TG & R&T had the 911 GT3 and Performante in the group as well... so what do you have to say about that then? wink
Love McLaren. The F1 is a masterpiece and one of the top 5 cars ever made in history.

But you can't ignore the hard facts of today. McLaren keeps on churning out fast cars that are a disaster in the twisties.

The P1 was hyped to the rafters, but almost impossible to drive at the first sign of rain, and its gigantic 900bhp couldn't even get round the Ring in the dry under 7mins. Now, the 720S is slower than a 3-yearold GT-R Datsun round the Ring, and almost a whopping half-minute behind the Huracan Performante and GT2 RS at the same track.

To be clear, it's not just McLaren that is overhyped nonsense. Ferrari have the same problem. The mag and vlog reviews will bang on about scalpel steering and immense power, but the independent times on major tracks are a disaster. The 488 is even slower than the 720S round the track. While the LaFerrari with its immense 950bhp also failed to dip under 7mins at the Ring.

To summarize -- the facts do not lie. The laptimes do not match the hype. McLaren and Ferrari have a problem. They are falling further and further behind Lambo and Porsche. Behind the scenes, Macca and Fezza will be panicking.

Jules360

1,949 posts

201 months

Wednesday 31st January 2018
quotequote all
Streetrod said:
Yipper said:
The 720S laptimes have been bad, everywhere.

It's been a complete disaster round the Nurburgring, for example.
\
For goodness sake just shut up, could you be anymore boring????
Yes. See RL. 3 years of going on about how the 650 is the world's best car blah blah blah, he's now gone and bought a Lambo and now we will have every thread devoted to that being the world's best car. Until he buys something else.