Current real world running costs? 12C

[Paza3]

Hi Guys

It looks like am looking at getting a new car soon, we rushed to the housing market as a property came up we really wanted anyway we missed out on it, during this period the F430 was sold in the haste, a few months ago. There are not many places like that so things have settled down again and were staying put.

I currently still have the F type v8 soft top which is a hoot and makes some awesome noises and is a bit of a hotrod to drive at 591 bhp now (few upgrades), but plan to sell to fund the new car.

However am looking at maybe a 12c, I must have read most the posts over the last few weeks and watch numerous youtubers recycling the same online information I guess.

I suppose I be looking at 100k max and below as it’s important to feel comfortable with the purchase so am being realistic budget wise. I’ve notice more Facebook McLaren posts (for sale page) with Indies stating there have the latest software etc. Am not interesting in paying 5k pa for a Mclaren warranty full stop as it makes it a nonstarter for me, my Fezza costs 2-2.5k pa to run and I was ok with that. If it appears it’s a must have then I think I knock it on the head.

As a lot of posts/information is quite old, it’s not a fair reflection. So am after real world now (June 2018) information on real world used 12c running costs outside of a Mclaren warranty nothing to do with insurance, mpg etc, general wear and tyre and replacement parts must do jobs and serving outside of network etc. My usage is nice day drives and one euro trip around 4k pa aprox normal stuff, try to drive it at least once a week even for a short journey. I was looking at the 540c as it seems a more basic car and there hitting retail for 110k now. Should I hold out for the 570s? or 540c to get a little closer, winter purchase?

I think the 12c depreciation wise it will firm up a but soon? 70 ish mark bottom end? Who knows, but it has fallen a lot tbf , its interesting seeing all the previous post saying there going to rise it’s just not happened. 650s looks absolutely mega but another 25k away

My other option is a Lp560 feels a safer purchase depreciation wise , I don’t want another 430. However bit of a sidestep after the F430… The Jag is awesome as its modern , very fast, sounds bonkers …. But lacks the “supercar” feel but I have grown to enjoy the modern double clutch and tech. So it’s a tricky one? Early days I guess.

My concern is that the 12c was a very expensive car new especially with a few options, so it’s still an expensive car to fix… I wonder how reliable parts will be now there approaching a decade old. There’s a lot of warranty talk however this is muddying the waters for used car running costs, comparing it to new or approve used. Where the old Gallardo is a more basic car I guess and can be fixed with greater ease due to the indy network and parts network availability behind it? hmmm

Is there any recommended website or groups that I could carry additional research?

Any advice is great received

Thanks

[Mr Cod]

Unfortunately the best resource is the owners group on Facebook. Which is a closed group not visible to those not invites i.e. those without proof of ownership. That's why these PH corridors are relatively quiet!

I was in a similar position to you a few months ago and in the end decided to go for a 12C spider in volcano red.

You will hear lots of opinions 're warranties and ultimately only you can answer whether the cost benefit equation works out based on your attitude to risk. It is worth mentioning there is an intermediate option now (between no warranty and Mac warranty) which is to go via warrantywise. It costs around half and aside from the max single claim limit of 10k appears to offer good coverage.

My advice would be to buy private with a MCL warranty and get an My experience is that Mac dealer cars are few and far between and expensive. My limited experience of non Mac dealers is not good but experiences may differ. Remember that any outstanding Mac warranty is not transferable if the car is sold via non Mac dealer. Good luck. For 100k you should be able to get a really really nice Coupe.

[isaldiri]

I still think forking out for the official Mclaren warranty still makes sense. The 12c's are getting to the age where issues are starting to come up due to age and even though some things (hoses especially annoyingly) are not covered, the cost of replacement parts makes it hard imo to not price in the warranty as part of the required annual running cost. the warranty provider of course is in it to make money but if something like the gearbox or engine goes wrong, you'd definitely not like to be on the wrong side of that warranty job even if Thorney or someone could fix it outside the official network (then good luck in ever selling that car too after).

[ferdi p]

Remember that any outstanding Mac warranty is not transferable if the car is sold via non Mac dealer.
[/quote]



I had a 12c (with warranty) & bought it via a non Mac dealer. I had warranty work done at my dealer with no issues at all.

I currently have a 650s, also bought via a non Mac dealer. Again, I had warranty work done at my dealer with no issues at all.

[isaldiri]

SOR from a dealer yes, if sold by an non official dealer who has bought over a car, it's not transferable. Usually not an issue anyway as no dealer is going to bid with their own cash on one other than a price that fully prices in the warranty cost (and more) imo......

[akadk]

i bought one in Jan for £80k and did 4k miles and a Ring track day. Sold it for £79,250 this month 8 days before the McWarranty expired

nothing broke, except for a puncture in a rear tyre

[Paza3]

Thanks for the input guys, is there a way to get an invite to this group? if most the activity is on there.

Is there a reason a why you sold it on so quickly? was it a tick in the box exercise? its been a possible idea to buy at the lower end of the market and sell at the lower end? Ive not got an issue with this exercise.

[CTE]

Go to Alistair Bols, buy a good car...not the cheapest, use it reasonably regularly, warm it up properly, and get it serviced correctly. Same as any car, you`ll be extremely unlucky to have any issues other than minor niggles.

[pete]

I'm also in the same boat, looking to replace a Porsche 996 Turbo S as its value gradually creeps up and the cost of 12Cs is dropping. It's pleasantly suprising that mundane consumables like fuel economy, insurance, tyres, etc are very similar to the Porsche, but natural that other 12C parts and labour costs reflect a car with double the list price and a lot more technical complexity. Lithium ion battery costs seem particularly entertaining...

On warranty, I priced up Warrantywise at somewhere between 2.5-3k per year depending on whether I wanted a small excess or not, but with a £10k claim limit. I received a call from them indicating that the price was also somewhat negotiable, but I'm leaning toward buying from somewhere like Alastair Bols that offers a good in-house warranty and has a strong reputation for after sales support as a first step.

[Paza3]

Just popped on his website , very nice looking yellow spider seems competitive tbf price wise. As its a match to the purple one on AT

[sparkyb999]

I can vouch for Alastair, really nice guy and has so much knowledge of Mac's! more than anyone
I am in the process of buying a car from him now, picking it up next week.

With regards to warranty, there are places around who specialise in Mac's, Thorney motorsport in Milton Keynes,

http://www.thorney.ms/mclaren/mp4-12c.html

I was looking at the 12C.. but decided on a 570 instead. All I read was the car can suffer with electronic problems, but the risk is the same with any supercar I suppose

[DubaiJohn]

I can’t comment on the costs of maintaining a 12c in the UK as am based in the UAE. However, I did run a 12c for about 18 months and about 15k miles and my suggestion would be have the warranty - in fact I may be looking for a McLaren in about 6 months or so and warranty would be an absolute must.

In the time I had the car, a 2014 model so very late in the production run, so much needed looking at that had I Not had the warranty I would have had significant bills. What was repaired/replaced for me was.

Wiper Arm - Corrosion
Corrosion on the Air Brake strut
iris replaced
GPS receiver replaced
AC compressor
Rear Window - condensation between panes
Turbo hoses popped off
Intake Air Hoses popped off

All fixed by Mclaren whose service was really very good in the end. In fact was in touch with McLaren regional HQ in Bahrain and they could not have been more helpful

As a balance to a potentially negative sounding post the car itself was brilliant. I commuted it in, including in a UAE summer, had road trips around the region and a few blasts into the mountains. Car is comfortable, loads of luggage space and insanely quick.

Happy to answer any specific questions.

[Ferruccio]

[quote=DubaiJohn

In the time I had the car, a 2014 model so very late in the production run, so much needed looking at that had I Not had the warranty I would have had significant bills. What was repaired/replaced for me was.

Wiper Arm - Corrosion
Corrosion on the Air Brake strut
iris replaced
GPS receiver replaced
AC compressor
Rear Window - condensation between panes
Turbo hoses popped off
Intake Air Hoses popped off


[/quote]

Interesting.
Some of that list wouldn’t have been out of place on a 70s\80s Lamborghini!

[Calculator]

Sorry for the minor hijack, but the 540s is starting to look like cracking value at £110k nearly new.

[ripley500]

Calculator said:

Sorry for the minor hijack, but the 540s is starting to look like cracking value at £110k nearly new.

I’d agree. I’ve not driven a 540 but I have a 570 Spider and I’m sure the differences between the two really aren’t that great from a drivers perspective. At circa 110k with a warranty it’s surely an awesome car for the money

[slarti650]

I had a 12c and now a 650 and also a member of the facebook group from the early days. There are complaints of niggles eg some paint bubbling and the odd electrical gremlin (that go away by themselves) but not much more than that. Don’t get scared off by people talking about gearbox replacements - in my 4 years of being in the community I’ve never come across a single instance of this. Even if it does happen, there are now Indys that can help you. If cost of warranty is an issue then try the deal that Thorney has , it’s a lot cheaper than the official warranty as Thorney knows these cars inside out - he is an owner himself.

One comment I would make about the “issues” that sometimes get mentioned is that Macs are laden with sensors. Mclaren being engineering obsessives felt the need to report every single thing via the dashboard which gives the impression that there are things wrong. The same thing would happen in any car, you just wouldn’t ever know because the dashboard isn’t connected to a sensor. All in all they’re pretty rock solid and an absolute masterpiece of supercar design. Pictures do no justice. Go and see a few. They look way more aggressive and purposeful in the flesh, they also get A LOT more attention too on the streets than the better known brands.

[RamboLambo]

slarti650 said:

I had a 12c and now a 650 and also a member of the facebook group from the early days. There are complaints of niggles eg some paint bubbling and the odd electrical gremlin (that go away by themselves) but not much more than that. Don’t get scared off by people talking about gearbox replacements - in my 4 years of being in the community I’ve never come across a single instance of this. Even if it does happen, there are now Indys that can help you. If cost of warranty is an issue then try the deal that Thorney has , it’s a lot cheaper than the official warranty as Thorney knows these cars inside out - he is an owner himself.

One comment I would make about the “issues” that sometimes get mentioned is that Macs are laden with sensors. Mclaren being engineering obsessives felt the need to report every single thing via the dashboard which gives the impression that there are things wrong. The same thing would happen in any car, you just wouldn’t ever know because the dashboard isn’t connected to a sensor. All in all they’re pretty rock solid and an absolute masterpiece of supercar design. Pictures do no justice. Go and see a few. They look way more aggressive and purposeful in the flesh, they also get A LOT more attention too on the streets than the better known brands.

Are you RamboLambo in disguise ?

Of the 3 major Brands I have to admit I do like McLaren and if the residuals were better it would be a complete non contest but that will come with time as the brand grows rapidly and the dealer network slowly catches up.
Like I say in 20 years these early low production cars will be classics

[isaldiri]

I genuinely don't understand how the 'private owners group' as a whole has not come across replacement gearboxes. I personally know of 4 cars (off the top of my head and possibly more) from friends/direct contacts that have had gearboxes changed and more than one has had a new engine. I'm not saying that the gearboxes or engines are a waiting time bomb (well gearboxes......) but the cost of something going wrong is very significant and even if the odds overall favour you (the warranty is insurance after all), the cost of that would pall the ownership experience very significantly. The thorney warranty is a helpful option but again it isn't that much less than official either and iirc has a cap per claim as well.

For 5 years my car was almost trouble free and was imho very well maintained even if I had put 30+k miles on it. The next 12 months though, i definitely had no cause to regret about maintaining the warranty on the car. Even at the current cost, I'd still probably recommend anyone getting a car to simply factor that into the cost of ownership. The cars are very good to drive but going in with eyes open (warranty or not) is important imo.

Edited by isaldiri on Sunday 24th June 23:47

[jakesmith]

isaldiri said:

I genuinely don't understand how the 'private owners group' as a whole has not come across replacement gearboxes. I personally know of 4 cars (off the top of my head and possibly more) from friends/direct contacts that have had gearboxes changed and more than one has had a new engine. I'm not saying that the gearboxes or engines are a waiting time bomb (well gearboxes......) but the cost of something going wrong is very significant and even if the odds overall favour you (the warranty is insurance after all), the cost of that would pall the ownership experience very significantly. The thorney warranty is a helpful option but again it isn't that much less than official either and iirc has a cap per claim as well.

For 5 years my car was almost trouble free and was imho very well maintained even if I had put 30+k miles on it. The next 12 months though, i definitely had no cause to regret about maintaining the warranty on the car. Even at the current cost, I'd still probably recommend anyone getting a car to simply factor that into the cost of ownership. The cars are very good to drive but going in with eyes open (warranty or not) is important imo.

Edited by isaldiri on Sunday 24th June 23:47

My bosses neighbour ummed and erred about renewing the warranty on his 12C, in the end he did it I believe it was £3.5k for a year. He was certainly glad he did as the car needed a new gearbox which apparently would have cost £18k.

[RamboLambo]

isaldiri said:

I genuinely don't understand how the 'private owners group' as a whole has not come across replacement gearboxes. I personally know of 4 cars (off the top of my head and possibly more) from friends/direct contacts that have had gearboxes changed and more than one has had a new engine. I'm not saying that the gearboxes or engines are a waiting time bomb (well gearboxes......) but the cost of something going wrong is very significant and even if the odds overall favour you (the warranty is insurance after all), the cost of that would pall the ownership experience very significantly. The thorney warranty is a helpful option but again it isn't that much less than official either and iirc has a cap per claim as well.

For 5 years my car was almost trouble free and was imho very well maintained even if I had put 30+k miles on it. The next 12 months though, i definitely had no cause to regret about maintaining the warranty on the car. Even at the current cost, I'd still probably recommend anyone getting a car to simply factor that into the cost of ownership. The cars are very good to drive but going in with eyes open (warranty or not) is important imo.

Edited by isaldiri on Sunday 24th June 23:47

Lol. The number goes up every time you tell the story.
Won't be long before there are more new gearboxes and engines than actual cars produced !
Warning Italian propaganda brigade OR ferrari salesman