Current real world running costs? 12C

Current real world running costs? 12C

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isaldiri

18,411 posts

167 months

Tuesday 3rd July 2018
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Jules360 said:
So to be clear, you are calling him a liar ?
Don't drag yourself down to his level. Some people are just not worth bothering with. I've only owned my 12c for 5+ years and clearly know nothing about anything to do with them.

ferdi p

1,519 posts

171 months

Tuesday 3rd July 2018
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isaldiri said:
Don't drag yourself down to his level. Some people are just not worth bothering with. I've only owned my 12c for 5+ years and clearly know nothing about anything to do with them.
Nobody says you know nothing, it's just a little difficult to believe that you 'personally' know the 4 cars that failed.
I had one of the 911GT3's that needed a replacement engine, hundreds were replaced & I never managed to bump into one of them!
Is there a broken Mclaren owners club as I'm struggling to know where you got to meet these 12c owners with knackered gearboxes?

isaldiri

18,411 posts

167 months

Tuesday 3rd July 2018
quotequote all
ferdi p said:
Nobody says you know nothing, it's just a little difficult to believe that you 'personally' know the 4 cars that failed.
I had one of the 911GT3's that needed a replacement engine, hundreds were replaced & I never managed to bump into one of them!
Is there a broken Mclaren owners club as I'm struggling to know where you got to meet these 12c owners with knackered gearboxes?
ChrisW here had one that had to be replaced. I have a friend in Canada who was a long time owner whose gearbox dumped a heap of oil on his garage after the warranty ended, goodwill box from Mclaren, he paid for labour. Another in the US who had a heap of warranty work (new engine and gearbox). Another friend in Switzerland had a replacement gearbox after his clutch kept on overheating on track and the differential broke. A friend in the UK had an early 12c where the box was replaced which is the least significant in terms of gearboxes having issues as it was replaced very early on in 2012 as some seal machining issues were present with the odd early graziano boxes (Mclaren service tech told me that). My own 12c never had a gearbox issue I might add.

Unlike some here, I have no interest in proclaiming the car is bombproof or a time bomb so if you choose not to believe what I say, it's your choice. I just had to point out despite the supposedly all knowing facebook owners never hearing of gearboxes being replaced, i find it rather curious I can think of more than a few.

WDISMYL

235 posts

86 months

Tuesday 3rd July 2018
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I was under the impression that the potential gearbox issue had long since found a far cheaper solution and is well documented on the Mclaren forum - so why are people still fretting about it?

I respect your own experience Isaldari but you are always to be found on the Mclaren forum when reliability is discussed or bringing it up when it isn’t. . We all understand you are clearly upset with your Mclaren experience and somewhat disgruntled but you should also accept that other owners do have trouble free ownership and there should be some balance.

My own (probably “offensive” )view is that supercars are now predominantly in the hands of people who can’t actually afford to own them by any sensible measure. And therefore far to sensitive to the ups and downs of ownership costs.

I didn’t think twice about bothering to get a warranty for my Diablo in over a decade. If the engine went - tough st.



RamboLambo

4,843 posts

169 months

Tuesday 3rd July 2018
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Oh so unfortunately HIS gearbox had an issue. All makes sense now.
Can understand bitter ex owner having an axe to grind in those exceptional circumstances especially if McLaren didnt offer goodwill on a fully serviced car.
So how does 4 cars worldwide out of 3,500 become an epidemic. 0.1%.
What was the failure rate on F430 manifolds ? 75% ? I know I had 2 on my car

Can't remember myself keep going on about that on the forum at every opportunity or when my F430 spyder roof broke 2 months out of warranty. Unfortunate and expensive but just took it on the chin.
Didn't put me off buying another Ferrari despite the bitter taste and no support from ferrari

Edited by RamboLambo on Tuesday 3rd July 18:26

isaldiri

18,411 posts

167 months

Tuesday 3rd July 2018
quotequote all
WDISMYL said:
I respect your own experience Isaldari but you are always to be found on the Mclaren forum when reliability is discussed or bringing it up when it isn’t. . We all understand you are clearly upset with your Mclaren experience and somewhat disgruntled but you should also accept that other owners do have trouble free ownership and there should be some balance.

My own (probably “offensive” )view is that supercars are now predominantly in the hands of people who can’t actually afford to own them by any sensible measure. And therefore far to sensitive to the ups and downs of ownership costs.
you are so far off the mark it's out of the park. I am quite amused to being now accused of being anti Mclaren when I used to be accused of being part of the Mclaren cult. If I'm 'always to be found on reliability' it's more often than not because I disagree with some of the claims that everything is rosy and fine and yes I do still feel maintaining the warranty would be a sensible thing despite the current cost. I obviously know plenty of cars of trouble free ownership but I do think the rate of issues Mclaren have are less than impressive and their service capability is even worse.

and I'm glad you think I can't afford to actually own and maintain my car when I've done well over 40 trackdays in the 12c having done all manner of maintenance related stuff regularly and well over and above the required service advisories. Always good to be thought of as living beyond my means just because I have the gumption to own a sports car.

WDISMYL

235 posts

86 months

Tuesday 3rd July 2018
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The comment about affordability was general.

But you really are a sensitive chap aren’t you.

Mr Cod

140 posts

103 months

Tuesday 3rd July 2018
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Come on chaps. This is why this part of the forum is dead. Let's leave it.

WDISMYL

235 posts

86 months

Tuesday 3rd July 2018
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Apologies for the personal barb.

I do think there is no perspective about these Mclaren cars though when costs are discussed.

Given the massive outperformance of a 12c compared to other brands that cost much more they are absolute bargains as second hand opportunities even if the cost of maintenance might be a little higher.

There is far too much negativity given this massive relative positive performance gap for the price.



johnwilliams77

8,308 posts

102 months

Tuesday 3rd July 2018
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RamboLambo said:
Oh so unfortunately HIS gearbox had an issue. All makes sense now.
Can understand bitter ex owner having an axe to grind in those exceptional circumstances especially if McLaren didnt offer goodwill on a fully serviced car.
So how does 4 cars worldwide out of 3,500 become an epidemic. 0.1%.
What was the failure rate on F430 manifolds ? 75% ? I know I had 2 on my car

Can't remember myself keep going on about that on the forum at every opportunity or when my F430 spyder roof broke 2 months out of warranty. Unfortunate and expensive but just took it on the chin.
Didn't put me off buying another Ferrari despite the bitter taste and no support from ferrari

Edited by RamboLambo on Tuesday 3rd July 18:26
Why is it that almost every supercar thread - you are the one ruining it?

RamboLambo

4,843 posts

169 months

Tuesday 3rd July 2018
quotequote all
johnwilliams77 said:
Why is it that almost every supercar thread - you are the one ruining it?
Let's not let FACTS get in the way of some good old McLaren bashing.

Same old gearbox issue gets trotted out every time and massively over exaggerated.
Someone has to make a stand and put some real world perspective on it for balance.
I have no loyalty or beef with any of the brands so speak as I find.
If it offends the snowflake society of today , quite frankly I don't give a damn

Jules360

1,949 posts

201 months

Wednesday 4th July 2018
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What FACTS ? You have mentioned none. He never said he knew all 3.500 owners, just that of the ones he does, 4 have big issues. You really are a clown.

Bispal

1,603 posts

150 months

Wednesday 4th July 2018
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What's the problem here? A handful of gearbox oil seals have perished? All of which can be fixed under the warranty. If no warranty Thorney does an exchange gearbox, fitted for £8k.

As mentioned above a handful of 12C's out of 3,500 have had a failed seal. This is very old and boring news and the solution, if you are worried your car might be in the 0.1%, is to buy the fully comprehensive McLaren extended warranty or get Thorney to fix it. If you are not comfortable paying £5k per year to cover EVERYTHING then don't get a McLaren get something else which I assure you will have its own issues.

The handful of issues I have seen on line have all been from owners who didn't buy a warranty. They then go on YouTube venting their frustration at McLaren when in fact they are really annoyed at themselves for not listening to everyone who told them to get a warranty. They gambled and they lost, simple as that, they knew the risks involved and chose to ignore them.








Jules360

1,949 posts

201 months

Wednesday 4th July 2018
quotequote all
Bispal said:
What's the problem here? A handful of gearbox oil seals have perished? All of which can be fixed under the warranty. If no warranty Thorney does an exchange gearbox, fitted for £8k.

As mentioned above a handful of 12C's out of 3,500 have had a failed seal. This is very old and boring news and the solution, if you are worried your car might be in the 0.1%, is to buy the fully comprehensive McLaren extended warranty or get Thorney to fix it. If you are not comfortable paying £5k per year to cover EVERYTHING then don't get a McLaren get something else which I assure you will have its own issues.

The handful of issues I have seen on line have all been from owners who didn't buy a warranty. They then go on YouTube venting their frustration at McLaren when in fact they are really annoyed at themselves for not listening to everyone who told them to get a warranty. They gambled and they lost, simple as that, they knew the risks involved and chose to ignore them.
To me the issue is a 5 grand warranty and the possibility of a known fault that can cost 20k. Alternative brands have cheaper warranties and as far as i am aware, no similarly expensive recurring issues. This is perhaps reflected in residual values.

ChrisW.

6,210 posts

254 months

Thursday 5th July 2018
quotequote all
Bispal said:
What's the problem here? A handful of gearbox oil seals have perished? All of which can be fixed under the warranty. If no warranty Thorney does an exchange gearbox, fitted for £8k.

As mentioned above a handful of 12C's out of 3,500 have had a failed seal. This is very old and boring news and the solution, if you are worried your car might be in the 0.1%, is to buy the fully comprehensive McLaren extended warranty or get Thorney to fix it. If you are not comfortable paying £5k per year to cover EVERYTHING then don't get a McLaren get something else which I assure you will have its own issues.

The handful of issues I have seen on line have all been from owners who didn't buy a warranty. They then go on YouTube venting their frustration at McLaren when in fact they are really annoyed at themselves for not listening to everyone who told them to get a warranty. They gambled and they lost, simple as that, they knew the risks involved and chose to ignore them.
But wasn't Isaldiri being chastised for suggesting owners do go for the warranty ?

As a matter of fact, at the time McLaren prevented Thorney Motorsport from repairing the gearbox of the 12c that I used to own. Three + years old, 4000 miles, three main dealer services and a get-lost, it's £18,000 to you sir.

Well, they didn't say get-lost but ??

They could have solved a problem, we would have accepted a repair at our cost, but a new gearbox at £18k ??

Wicked.

I still think these are great cars, but please excuse me for also holding the personal view that a warranty should be part of the cost package.

Whether anybody else does is entirely up to them.

Isaldiri has in my experience always been extremely supportive on this forum ... those who foul mouth him should be ashamed of themselves. They demean themselves and switch off more gentle folk.

Now, where were we ?






ChrisW.

6,210 posts

254 months

Thursday 5th July 2018
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jakesmith said:
My bosses neighbour ummed and erred about renewing the warranty on his 12C, in the end he did it I believe it was £3.5k for a year. He was certainly glad he did as the car needed a new gearbox which apparently would have cost £18k.
And I am clearly not the only one. So that's at least two out of how many who read this Forum ?

MDL111

6,895 posts

176 months

Thursday 5th July 2018
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Have only skimmed through the thread, but what I don’t quite get is why people think spending 5k on a cover everything warranty is expensive. It is not like Ferrari charges substantially less for their warranty and looking at the bigger picture the running costs for a car like this over 12 months (assuming you drive it) are far in excess of 5k anyway. Don’t see what the issue is

slarti650

1,828 posts

153 months

Wednesday 11th July 2018
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MDL111 said:
Have only skimmed through the thread, but what I don’t quite get is why people think spending 5k on a cover everything warranty is expensive. It is not like Ferrari charges substantially less for their warranty and looking at the bigger picture the running costs for a car like this over 12 months (assuming you drive it) are far in excess of 5k anyway. Don’t see what the issue is
Your comment I quite timely. I just had my 355 in for service with the guys at the Ferrari Centre in Maidstone (great guys). I just forked out just over 10k in maintenance and repairs to get her back to perfection. And here was me thinking that having a ferrari + a network of indies would cost substantially less. In contrast my Mclaren has cost less than half of that to maintain. ALSO - Ferrari power warranties don’t cover the whole car like McLaren does, and what isn’t covered almost always gets taken care of with good will (I’ve known a few people to get covered for things that aren’t officially warranted e.g. the rear lights).

Edited by slarti650 on Wednesday 11th July 18:36

old phart

404 posts

109 months

Tuesday 17th July 2018
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WDISMYL said:
My own (probably “offensive” )view is that supercars are now predominantly in the hands of people who can’t actually afford to own them by any sensible measure. And therefore far to sensitive to the ups and downs of ownership costs.

I didn’t think twice about bothering to get a warranty for my Diablo in over a decade. If the engine went - tough st.
I'm in that group. Currently have a 2009 DB9 and looking to jump to a Mclaren in a year or two. Would probably be at the edge of my finances to do the warranty every year. I currently budget about $3k a year for service.

Once heard a study about satisfaction. If a person got good service at a restaurant or such on average they told maybe 2 people. However if they had bad service they told at least a dozen. Just like the news every night here stateside. the first half is all disasters, murders, and such.
Then a quick 2 minute happy story at the end of the broadcast.


Edited by old phart on Tuesday 17th July 02:49

jakesmith

9,461 posts

170 months

Tuesday 17th July 2018
quotequote all
slarti650 said:
Your comment I quite timely. I just had my 355 in for service with the guys at the Ferrari Centre in Maidstone (great guys). I just forked out just over 10k in maintenance and repairs to get her back to perfection. And here was me thinking that having a ferrari + a network of indies would cost substantially less. In contrast my Mclaren has cost less than half of that to maintain. ALSO - Ferrari power warranties don’t cover the whole car like McLaren does, and what isn’t covered almost always gets taken care of with good will (I’ve known a few people to get covered for things that aren’t officially warranted e.g. the rear lights).

Edited by slarti650 on Wednesday 11th July 18:36
Are they really comparable? The 355 must be much older?