Never meet your heroes?: Ferrari 458 Italia- Discussion
Discussion
Hello All,
I have always had two dream cars, a Ferrari F12 Berlinetta and the 458 Speciale. I understand they are quite different, one being front engined, rear wheel drive and most importantly V12 powered and the other mid engined V8. Recently, I got the chance to drive a 458 Italia, which is of course quite a notch down from the speciale, but never the less I was incredibly excited and I had many preconceptions as to what I thought the car would feel like. I was to drive the 458 on track, for three laps as part of a Supercar Experience which my girlfriend had brought me for Christmas.
Abit of background about myself which may be important in why I felt the way I did about the car; I am 18, I drive a very boring four cylinder car as a first car, up until that day I hadn't driven anything other than my car since I passed my driving test. Before driving the 458 I drove a 997 Carrera Porsche which I absolutely adored by the end and felt the "specialness" of the 911 instantly, leaving me with a large smile on my face and incredibly eager to drive a version of my dream car, the 458 Italia.
Upon hopping inside the 458, the cockpit was nice, I had a nice driving position, the steering wheel fit into my hands like I never could have imagined, the thickness of the wheel felt great and the wheel was the perfect size. I then turned to the instructor to focus back on what he was saying before I got so excited. I remember specifically the instructor said "When you get to the hill, you should be in fourth gear and the car will fly", thinking to myself fourth gear was relatively high for what was a 40mph bend or so, I trusted the instructor and took him for his word.
Upon setting off, I was quite shocked at how light the steering was compared to the fantastically weighted wheel in the 911 I had previously driven, the wheel felt incredibly accurate on the 911, would the Ferrari's wheel feel boring in comparison? Once I had waited in line I entered the track, I instantly hit the accelerator with some respect and watched the rev's climb, the sound of the engine was annoyingly muffled by the windows being up and the aircon blasting.
When I got to the hill previously mentioned, I was in fourth gear, check, I was at a good speed for the corner, check, and I was on the right position on the track, just touching the apex. Time to feel the full experience of my dream car at its best, in that very moment I plant my foot and feel the car bog down slightly and little acceleration... Come on, I knew the instructor was lying, but I will just wait until the next lap... The next lap comes round and I'm sure to select third gear this time, without trying to annoy the instructor who seemed like he would rather be watching paint try, I punch the accelerator again and this time I feel some acceleration and overtake two cars before the bend, feeling playful that I had just overtaken two cars, yet underwhelmed by the 458's lack of fun. I did look down after accelerating up the hill and noticing that the rev counter on the steering wheel only lit up three LED's and noticed that traction control was on wet, which came at no surprise.
With the last lap not standing out particularly in my memory, then driving the LP560-4 Gallardo afterwards and being in pure bliss, laughing and smiling the entire time having not expected to like it. It makes me wonder, was the 458 just not for me? Had I built it up to be something it wasn't in my mind? Or did I simply just not have enough time to get to know the car paired with it being on a track with a very out of touch instructor?
Opinions and experiences are welcome below.
I have always had two dream cars, a Ferrari F12 Berlinetta and the 458 Speciale. I understand they are quite different, one being front engined, rear wheel drive and most importantly V12 powered and the other mid engined V8. Recently, I got the chance to drive a 458 Italia, which is of course quite a notch down from the speciale, but never the less I was incredibly excited and I had many preconceptions as to what I thought the car would feel like. I was to drive the 458 on track, for three laps as part of a Supercar Experience which my girlfriend had brought me for Christmas.
Abit of background about myself which may be important in why I felt the way I did about the car; I am 18, I drive a very boring four cylinder car as a first car, up until that day I hadn't driven anything other than my car since I passed my driving test. Before driving the 458 I drove a 997 Carrera Porsche which I absolutely adored by the end and felt the "specialness" of the 911 instantly, leaving me with a large smile on my face and incredibly eager to drive a version of my dream car, the 458 Italia.
Upon hopping inside the 458, the cockpit was nice, I had a nice driving position, the steering wheel fit into my hands like I never could have imagined, the thickness of the wheel felt great and the wheel was the perfect size. I then turned to the instructor to focus back on what he was saying before I got so excited. I remember specifically the instructor said "When you get to the hill, you should be in fourth gear and the car will fly", thinking to myself fourth gear was relatively high for what was a 40mph bend or so, I trusted the instructor and took him for his word.
Upon setting off, I was quite shocked at how light the steering was compared to the fantastically weighted wheel in the 911 I had previously driven, the wheel felt incredibly accurate on the 911, would the Ferrari's wheel feel boring in comparison? Once I had waited in line I entered the track, I instantly hit the accelerator with some respect and watched the rev's climb, the sound of the engine was annoyingly muffled by the windows being up and the aircon blasting.
When I got to the hill previously mentioned, I was in fourth gear, check, I was at a good speed for the corner, check, and I was on the right position on the track, just touching the apex. Time to feel the full experience of my dream car at its best, in that very moment I plant my foot and feel the car bog down slightly and little acceleration... Come on, I knew the instructor was lying, but I will just wait until the next lap... The next lap comes round and I'm sure to select third gear this time, without trying to annoy the instructor who seemed like he would rather be watching paint try, I punch the accelerator again and this time I feel some acceleration and overtake two cars before the bend, feeling playful that I had just overtaken two cars, yet underwhelmed by the 458's lack of fun. I did look down after accelerating up the hill and noticing that the rev counter on the steering wheel only lit up three LED's and noticed that traction control was on wet, which came at no surprise.
With the last lap not standing out particularly in my memory, then driving the LP560-4 Gallardo afterwards and being in pure bliss, laughing and smiling the entire time having not expected to like it. It makes me wonder, was the 458 just not for me? Had I built it up to be something it wasn't in my mind? Or did I simply just not have enough time to get to know the car paired with it being on a track with a very out of touch instructor?
Opinions and experiences are welcome below.
more time and Race mode come to mind to improve the experience
The light steering is on all Ferrari - I always thought they did not have much feedback until you hit relatively high cornering speeds, it is a very precise rack though. For feedback I also preferred my 911, but one gets used to it
as a general statement, most of these new cars (call it 458 onwards for Ferrari) feel quite boring imo unless you get the chance to be fully on it. 458 does not even sound that good compared to the older cars or the V12s (those sound very special at pretty much all revs and truly divine at high revs)
The light steering is on all Ferrari - I always thought they did not have much feedback until you hit relatively high cornering speeds, it is a very precise rack though. For feedback I also preferred my 911, but one gets used to it
as a general statement, most of these new cars (call it 458 onwards for Ferrari) feel quite boring imo unless you get the chance to be fully on it. 458 does not even sound that good compared to the older cars or the V12s (those sound very special at pretty much all revs and truly divine at high revs)
If you drove the Porsche, Lambo, and the Ferrari back to back, I'm amazed you found the 458 lacking in comparison. It should have at least felt as quick as the others even if it lacked some of the wider drama.
Either that or you have just learnt why people buy different cars, some suit and some don't and we should be grateful to have the choice.
Either that or you have just learnt why people buy different cars, some suit and some don't and we should be grateful to have the choice.
I'd suggest it wasn't the car but the constraints under which you had to drive it.
These supercar 'experiences' quite frankly give you a very poor overall experience of what it's like to drive a supercar. All the aids turned up to 11, not allowed to use all of the rev-range, the ability to push the limits of the car severely curtailed all lends itself to a rather dull experience.
In the distant past I've had a few bought for me and they have all been massively underwhelming - I would have been quicker round the track and had more fun if i'd just driven around in whatever I arrived in. The one exception was in a 996 Turbo where the instructor was happy for me to really push it.
These supercar 'experiences' quite frankly give you a very poor overall experience of what it's like to drive a supercar. All the aids turned up to 11, not allowed to use all of the rev-range, the ability to push the limits of the car severely curtailed all lends itself to a rather dull experience.
In the distant past I've had a few bought for me and they have all been massively underwhelming - I would have been quicker round the track and had more fun if i'd just driven around in whatever I arrived in. The one exception was in a 996 Turbo where the instructor was happy for me to really push it.
I think more time is required. If you were let off the leash and did a few tuition laps and then a few solo ones building up your speed and moderating your braking points as you got more used to it it should be a huge step up on the Gallardo (particularly a 4wd Gallardo). The steering is light on the 458 but this oddly to my mind suits track work better than road use. The 488's steering is noticeably heavier, if not any more feelsome (nothing has got close in PAS terms to the feel of the 996 rack in my opinion).
The 458 is an epic car, a huge step up from the F430, although it isn't the most special sounding one. It is on a par with/slightly better than/slightly less epic than the McLaren equivalents (choose your preference here, it's all subjective). So I don't think you have driven it enough to conclude on it yet.
Mind you I wasn't anywhere close to driving a 458 equivalent on track at 18 so fair play. You have lots of time and opportunity to make your mind up.
The 458 is an epic car, a huge step up from the F430, although it isn't the most special sounding one. It is on a par with/slightly better than/slightly less epic than the McLaren equivalents (choose your preference here, it's all subjective). So I don't think you have driven it enough to conclude on it yet.
Mind you I wasn't anywhere close to driving a 458 equivalent on track at 18 so fair play. You have lots of time and opportunity to make your mind up.
MingtheMerciless said:
I think more time is required. If you were let off the leash and did a few tuition laps and then a few solo ones building up your speed and moderating your braking points as you got more used to it it should be a huge step up on the Gallardo (particularly a 4wd Gallardo). The steering is light on the 458 but this oddly to my mind suits track work better than road use. The 488's steering is noticeably heavier, if not any more feelsome (nothing has got close in PAS terms to the feel of the 996 rack in my opinion).
The 458 is an epic car, a huge step up from the F430, although it isn't the most special sounding one. It is on a par with/slightly better than/slightly less epic than the McLaren equivalents (choose your preference here, it's all subjective). So I don't think you have driven it enough to conclude on it yet.
Mind you I wasn't anywhere close to driving a 458 equivalent on track at 18 so fair play. You have lots of time and opportunity to make your mind up.
I'm hoping that more time require is the case... I'm sure I'll get round to driving another 458 in my life, but for now, unfortunately, it's no longer my dream car and I cringe slightly every time I see one on the roads or on the internet at what was once such a love and passion I had for that car. The 458 is an epic car, a huge step up from the F430, although it isn't the most special sounding one. It is on a par with/slightly better than/slightly less epic than the McLaren equivalents (choose your preference here, it's all subjective). So I don't think you have driven it enough to conclude on it yet.
Mind you I wasn't anywhere close to driving a 458 equivalent on track at 18 so fair play. You have lots of time and opportunity to make your mind up.
I definitely agree, with a longer time spend with the car I would most definitely start to like the car. Thinking back, the instructor in the 911 was pretty nice, showed me the racing line (never having driven a track before) and he let me put the windows down to hear the beautiful sounding six cylinder leading to me thoroughly enjoying and bonding with the car. The instructor in the Gallardo was fantastic, he just said "Now, I can see you know the track well and are in good control of the car, so I'm going to shutup and let you enjoy the experience." which essentially gave me the permission to have as much fun as possible in that car in the time I had. See below for the pic of me driving it, I'd suggest paying close attention to the instructors face whilst he was "being quiet".
Having enjoyed the 911, I'm going to treat myself to a track day in a Porsche next summer where I can learn the car completely and get the full experience. Does anyone have any suggestions for where I could do this?
Trev450 said:
The Porsche Experience at Silverstone is as good if not better than most.
Agreed. The day is all about finding out what the car is capable of. The instructors encourage you to make full use of the throttle and brake pedals, and educate you to do it safely. If an experience centre doesn't let you do that, you can't make judgements about the car you've 'experienced'. 458s are epic cars. They sound superb, the handling is sublime, the steering (particularly the turn in) is absolutely spot on. I've done 21000 miles in my Spider, mostly round Europe. Epic thing. I've just sold my Speciale, I own a GT3RS and I own an F12 amongst other things (<<<< see Garage). F12 is awesome too but it's a GT car.
Clickety click, 3 part video, 458 Spider, Brenner and Jaufen passes (Austria to Italy) dry and wet. Enjoy.
Part 1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFIDRUOv7AA&t=...
Part 2 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvLcDWJRFrk&t=...
Part 3 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aduBDZUYsw0&t=...
Clickety click, 3 part video, 458 Spider, Brenner and Jaufen passes (Austria to Italy) dry and wet. Enjoy.
Part 1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFIDRUOv7AA&t=...
Part 2 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvLcDWJRFrk&t=...
Part 3 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aduBDZUYsw0&t=...
Edited by _Leg_ on Wednesday 19th September 21:51
Edited by _Leg_ on Wednesday 19th September 21:53
My childhood dream car around the age of 8 onwards was a Countach. It was my aspiration at that time to one day own a Lamborghini. Some 40 years later I was fortunate enough to realise that aspiration and was able to buy my LP570-4. I have had that just over 2 years and love everything about it. Absolute blast to drive and whilst my mind has wandered on alternatives, I just love it too much right now to change it. I watched James May when he did that programme a while back on meeting your heroes, (might even have been a slot on Top Gear, I can’t recall exactly) when he drove a Countach and how thoroughly underwhelmed he ended being with it, so the “never meet your heroes” thing can be true enough. That said, I still love the way they look. Astonishing pieces of automotive art they are indeed. Still, it was always Lambo for me, never Ferrari or Porsche etc. Maybe try a few other Ferraris and you might find something you click with. I think the Speciale would be a whole different experience than the Italia though (in a good way), so don’t write off the 458 yet in your heart.
willy wombat said:
Only comment I would make is that to make a 458 "fly" you need to use the gears - it hasn't got that much torque. Fourth gear at 40 mph is far too high a gear if you want decent acceleration.
This. The 458 thrives on revs. 40 mph is 2nd gear territory where one squeezes the throttle to the floor with eyes wide open and bum sensors on alert in case the rear end moves about. One and a bit seconds of excitement and you need 3rd, two more seconds 4th. Best experienced in a tunnel with the windows down!_Leg_ said:
458s are epic cars. They sound superb, the handling is sublime, the steering (particularly the turn in) is absolutely spot on. I've done 21000 miles in my Spider, mostly round Europe. Epic thing. I've just sold my Speciale, I own a GT3RS and I own an F12 amongst other things (<<<< see Garage). F12 is awesome too but it's a GT car.
In your experience how does the F12 compare with the Speciale? I would like a V12, (have a Speciale), but haven't driven the F12 to know what its like.boxerTen said:
_Leg_ said:
458s are epic cars. They sound superb, the handling is sublime, the steering (particularly the turn in) is absolutely spot on. I've done 21000 miles in my Spider, mostly round Europe. Epic thing. I've just sold my Speciale, I own a GT3RS and I own an F12 amongst other things (<<<< see Garage). F12 is awesome too but it's a GT car.
In your experience how does the F12 compare with the Speciale? I would like a V12, (have a Speciale), but haven't driven the F12 to know what its like.But either of the 458s, Spider or Speciale, are different animals to the F12. They're much more nimble, a harder ride, less convenient but more fun, easier to hustle up a mountain pass at speed.
When I get in the F12 I think, "Wow, this is an awesome car" sat still and when I drive it I think the same thing. It's a general feeling and the only specific thing you pick out is the power. The damn thing steps out, going in a straight line in 3rd and 4th. But the over riding feeling is just "wow, what a great car".
When I get in the 458 (Spider or Speciale - I'll distinguish between the two in a sec) though I think, "Mmm, nice" but then when I drive them I can't stop laughing. The turn in, the noise, the handling - nearly everything they do has me giggling like a fat kid locked in a cake shop at 2am.
Spider vs Speciale. I have to admit to being biased due to sentimentality. I've had some great adventures in the Spider. It's been all over Europe many times, done the Mille Miglia (obviously not the main event) and been round the NC500. It was also my first Ferrari so has a special place in my heart. I'll never sell it.
Car vs car though, on the road, I preferred the Spider. I would have preferred a Speciale Aperta more but alas, I don't move in those circles. The Speciale is without doubt a more capable car but unlocking what it offers above and beyond a normal 458 doesn't happen much on the road and I didn't track mine as I have a specific track car. If you can't extract the extra performance from the Speciale, and the roof comes off the Spider, then on the road, the Spider is more fun. I found I can reach the limit of what I deem to be safe and fair to other people in the Spider and to open up the Speciale would mean exceeding that. TBH though I can reach that point in my 981 Boxster S too, it just requires more effort (not a bad thing).
Hence why I sold the Speciale. I got a great offer from Ferrari and had found that I kept walking past it and taking the Spider out. Now I'm pondering what to get instead. I've been taking to Hemmels about one of their restomod 280SLs but I'm not sure. I'll probably go see them when I get a few free days.
Edited by _Leg_ on Wednesday 19th September 23:27
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