V12V to Macca before V12VS manual
Discussion
Posted in the Aston Martin thread, but now here too to get a balanced view.
Been a good year at work, and despite having thought since getting a monster EV daily driver that I would never again get another petrol car, I found myself at the local Mclaren dealer considering to trade in the old V12V. Had to check the Maccas out before I went for a V12VSM. Had a go in a 570s spider. Amazing car - a great ride as well as performance from a conventional suspension. But ultimately didn’t feel special enough. The top end scoot didn’t make up for the, well 1980s, turbo lag and the somewhat bland interior and the rococo rear end styling.
But then I also had a go in a 650s. Wow, that was something else. Yes a bit of lag, but nothing like the 570s. The performance level is now really making me consider switching before heading perhaps ultimately back to a V12VSM.
Thoughts, please?
Been a good year at work, and despite having thought since getting a monster EV daily driver that I would never again get another petrol car, I found myself at the local Mclaren dealer considering to trade in the old V12V. Had to check the Maccas out before I went for a V12VSM. Had a go in a 570s spider. Amazing car - a great ride as well as performance from a conventional suspension. But ultimately didn’t feel special enough. The top end scoot didn’t make up for the, well 1980s, turbo lag and the somewhat bland interior and the rococo rear end styling.
But then I also had a go in a 650s. Wow, that was something else. Yes a bit of lag, but nothing like the 570s. The performance level is now really making me consider switching before heading perhaps ultimately back to a V12VSM.
Thoughts, please?
Edited by 12pack on Tuesday 9th June 17:53
Based on my own experience (and some anecdotal posting on other forums) the last 12Cs (2013/14) and 650s are the best built Mclarens to date.
As you found the performance of the 650s is otherworldly.
Not sure the weather (dealer) permitted you to really try it out, in sports performance mode, it further transforms the car. Rear window dropped down (on the spyder) together with sports exhaust, all add to the drama (and fun).
I had a 650s for about 15 months (after having a 12c for a year), I will get another (if not a 720s) as soon as depreciation settles.
As you found the performance of the 650s is otherworldly.
Not sure the weather (dealer) permitted you to really try it out, in sports performance mode, it further transforms the car. Rear window dropped down (on the spyder) together with sports exhaust, all add to the drama (and fun).
I had a 650s for about 15 months (after having a 12c for a year), I will get another (if not a 720s) as soon as depreciation settles.
This was my reply in the Aston forum, I think you'll get a few more Aston converts in here, but this forum is quieter so might take a bit longer. Having both would be a brilliant garage 
I think the Mac's take a bit longer to appreciate. I see it as more of a daily than the vantage. It is just so useable. So I guess it depends what you are after.
I think the Mac's take a bit longer to appreciate. I see it as more of a daily than the vantage. It is just so useable. So I guess it depends what you are after.
justin220 said:
Just to add some balance to this, I've owned a couple of Vantages and recently moved into a 540C.
In my opinion, and I loved my Vantage, but the McLaren's are better in just about every way. Sound is a big win for the Aston though, which may matter more to some. I'd probably say the dealerships and after sales are better with Aston aswell.
Looks wise, the McLaren's look genuine supercar. The 'old' Vantage is starting to look it's age now that the new one is out, and looks quite prehistoric next to the McLaren. Looks are subjective I guess.
To drive, the Vantage can't compete IMO. Even the 540 being the baby of the range is an absolute rocket, and so easy to drive. It reminds me of a very (very) fast Lotus in driving feel/handling. The performane I find is so much more accessible.
Servicing/tyres/mpg are cheaper on the Mac aswell, but guess the weight contributes to this.
I dare say I'll be back in an Aston some day, but I would highly recommend trying a McLaren for a while. A lot of ex-Aston owners have jumped into the fold and don't think many have gone back.
In my opinion, and I loved my Vantage, but the McLaren's are better in just about every way. Sound is a big win for the Aston though, which may matter more to some. I'd probably say the dealerships and after sales are better with Aston aswell.
Looks wise, the McLaren's look genuine supercar. The 'old' Vantage is starting to look it's age now that the new one is out, and looks quite prehistoric next to the McLaren. Looks are subjective I guess.
To drive, the Vantage can't compete IMO. Even the 540 being the baby of the range is an absolute rocket, and so easy to drive. It reminds me of a very (very) fast Lotus in driving feel/handling. The performane I find is so much more accessible.
Servicing/tyres/mpg are cheaper on the Mac aswell, but guess the weight contributes to this.
I dare say I'll be back in an Aston some day, but I would highly recommend trying a McLaren for a while. A lot of ex-Aston owners have jumped into the fold and don't think many have gone back.
I saw the blue 570s at Manchester yesterday and thought it was stunning. I was discussing 570s vs 650s and there was mention of someone that had recently driven the two back to back and preferred the 650s due to lack of lag. Small world!
I’m going to try the 570s Spyder over the next couple of weeks as I think they look great value. As a former Aston owner though, the noise is a worry. There seem to be different views on the sports exhaust but perhaps that’s the solution?
Separately, drop me a PM with details of your V12V as I have a friend in the market.
Justin - what made you go for 540 rather than 570? Looks great by the way.
I’m going to try the 570s Spyder over the next couple of weeks as I think they look great value. As a former Aston owner though, the noise is a worry. There seem to be different views on the sports exhaust but perhaps that’s the solution?
Separately, drop me a PM with details of your V12V as I have a friend in the market.
Justin - what made you go for 540 rather than 570? Looks great by the way.
12pack said:
The top end scoot didn’t make up for the, well 1980s, turbo lag and the somewhat bland interior.
Thoughts, please?
You need to reacquaint yourself with 80s turbo lag, the 570 has very little turbo lag think you are just comparing it with big NA V12.Thoughts, please?
Remember the 570 motor is the latest version of the 3.8 lump with smaller blowers than the 650 so the 650 will have "worse" turbo lag.... is it the surging turbo torque which you blaming ?
I'd get the newer car, the 570 is a peach and a genuine daily driver.
Calculator said:
I saw the blue 570s at Manchester yesterday and thought it was stunning. I was discussing 570s vs 650s and there was mention of someone that had recently driven the two back to back and preferred the 650s due to lack of lag. Small world!
I’m going to try the 570s Spyder over the next couple of weeks as I think they look great value. As a former Aston owner though, the noise is a worry. There seem to be different views on the sports exhaust but perhaps that’s the solution?
Separately, drop me a PM with details of your V12V as I have a friend in the market.
Justin - what made you go for 540 rather than 570? Looks great by the way.
Do you know which Blue it was - Looks like either Burton Blue or Vega Blue - I’m thinking about speccing a Burton Blue car but haven’t seen one for real yet (only Vega Blue) - if McManc have a burton blue one then I may head over to take a lookI’m going to try the 570s Spyder over the next couple of weeks as I think they look great value. As a former Aston owner though, the noise is a worry. There seem to be different views on the sports exhaust but perhaps that’s the solution?
Separately, drop me a PM with details of your V12V as I have a friend in the market.
Justin - what made you go for 540 rather than 570? Looks great by the way.
Whilst the 650 may have more power and the clever suspension, there is no way I’d describe a 570 as having turbo lag.
The 570 Spider I drive a few months back had pretty much instant throttle response as far as I was concerned.
Go drive a Lancia Integrale if you really want to experience turbo lag
The 570 Spider I drive a few months back had pretty much instant throttle response as far as I was concerned.
Go drive a Lancia Integrale if you really want to experience turbo lag
ripley500 said:
Do you know which Blue it was - Looks like either Burton Blue or Vega Blue - I’m thinking about speccing a Burton Blue car but haven’t seen one for real yet (only Vega Blue) - if McManc have a burton blue one then I may head over to take a look
Apologies, I didn’t ask. I can confirm it looks even better in the flesh though!Didn’t mean to offend with turbo lag comment. My point of reference is an FD RX7. It’s been a while - was one of the first with twin turbos, with the smaller one spooling up first. Perhaps it’s the just the absolute amount of torque, but the 570s wasn’t as satisfying lower down as the 650s, especially being used to the instant throttle response on the old Aston. To be clear the 570s is ballistic, but I just preferred the power delivery of the 650s. Pretty close to going for a low mileage spider now.
I've owned 650 and 570 and I prefer the 570. You have to work the gearbox more but once familiar with it a much more satisfying drive, just more involving. And the MSO exhaust on the 570 definitely wakes up the noise, it's still never going to match a V10 Lambo howl but driven high in the revs (which the 570 loves) it sounds great.
The 650 was a wonderful car too so you really can't go wrong.
The 650 was a wonderful car too so you really can't go wrong.
Calculator said:
MSO being the most expensive and impactful presumably?
Indeed. I've had 3 McLarens and been around many others and I have to say the MSO on the 570 has the best sound. It really does help the driving experience because it makes you want to get the car revving and push on.Calculator said:
.
Justin - what made you go for 540 rather than 570? Looks great by the way.
I actually went to the dealer with the intent of looking at a 12C, but just preferred the 540/570 looks when I saw them all side by side. Justin - what made you go for 540 rather than 570? Looks great by the way.
As for why not a 570, is basically came down to what I could get for my budget. When I bought, for the same money (I appreciate things are different now) but I could either get -
540C - 6 month old, 1400 miles, red
570S - 18 months, 12k mileage, silver
Longer mileage and the Red colour sold it to me. Not sure you can go wrong with either to be honest.
The 540 could really do with the splitter being painted in palladium silver but it's minor.
Here’s a nice article about the differences between the 650s and the 570. I must say that description of the power delivery is exactly what I felt in my back- to back drive per my original post. Also a video of the differences in sound. Coming from a AM V12 I can see why I might prefer the 650’s rounder, mellower tone - think Stan Getz. I can see why many might prefer the 570 which has that flat plane crank tone - more Coltrane.
https://www.carthrottle.com/post/6-ways-the-mclare...
https://www.carthrottle.com/post/6-ways-the-mclare...
Well I don't have a motoring journos experience or expertise but I don't recognise half of whats in that article.
As usual it's all about context. Put both cars on a track in ideal conditions then you're going to pick up on those handling characteristics but on the actual roads that we all drive on in real life I rate the 570 higher.
<journo>
The 650 has a certain front end lightness reminiscent of a helium balloon gently lifting a kinder egg toy away from an open mouthed child's stare.
<journo>/
I live in South Essex. Point 2 of a second really doesn't matter, and I speak as someone who spent the summer in a 720S.
Frankly, the vast majority of people writing about these cars will never own them.
As usual it's all about context. Put both cars on a track in ideal conditions then you're going to pick up on those handling characteristics but on the actual roads that we all drive on in real life I rate the 570 higher.
<journo>
The 650 has a certain front end lightness reminiscent of a helium balloon gently lifting a kinder egg toy away from an open mouthed child's stare.
<journo>/
I live in South Essex. Point 2 of a second really doesn't matter, and I speak as someone who spent the summer in a 720S.
Frankly, the vast majority of people writing about these cars will never own them.
tyrrell said:
If you can find a MSO exhaust on the 570S cars they sound fantastic especially as you go past 6k in the Rev range 
it’s a very expensive option at £4500 but if you can find a car with one fitted its well worth it .
Or spend less than half that on a Larini cat-back system like I have fitted. No complaints from the sound authority now it’s a very expensive option at £4500 but if you can find a car with one fitted its well worth it .
Wilmslowboy said:
Based on my own experience (and some anecdotal posting on other forums) the last 12Cs (2013/14) and 650s are the best built Mclarens to date.
As you found the performance of the 650s is otherworldly.
Not sure the weather (dealer) permitted you to really try it out, in sports performance mode, it further transforms the car. Rear window dropped down (on the spyder) together with sports exhaust, all add to the drama (and fun).
I had a 650s for about 15 months (after having a 12c for a year), I will get another (if not a 720s) as soon as depreciation settles.
Ive been using a 650S Spider as my daily driver for the last 3 1/2 years and it has never given me an ounce of trouble.As you found the performance of the 650s is otherworldly.
Not sure the weather (dealer) permitted you to really try it out, in sports performance mode, it further transforms the car. Rear window dropped down (on the spyder) together with sports exhaust, all add to the drama (and fun).
I had a 650s for about 15 months (after having a 12c for a year), I will get another (if not a 720s) as soon as depreciation settles.
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