Living with a McLaren 650s Spider as an (almost) daily
Discussion
650spider said:
+1
I can only imagine that what's going on is a bit frustrating, but it unfortunately seems like most posts are a bit of a rant now...
Most of all of the other 540 and 570 owners seem more than delighted with their cars...
Really? Then I apologise - that's not my intent. I'm certainly not blaming the car for a puncture - it was meant a tad more tongue in cheek that it's happened while mine is having its problems sorted.I can only imagine that what's going on is a bit frustrating, but it unfortunately seems like most posts are a bit of a rant now...
Most of all of the other 540 and 570 owners seem more than delighted with their cars...
Overall, I think the 540 is a great car and I thought that had come across. I'd happily own one but thought it would be interesting to compare what I think is better in each car. Some things I prefer in the 540, some I prefer in mine.
I do think it's rather odd that it takes a mile to decide if it has a puncture - or not - that seems a tad pointless, since if the tyre was totally flat it would be too late. So I am dubious that the pressure monitoring is working correctly.
650spider said:
+1
I can only imagine that what's going on is a bit frustrating, but it unfortunately seems like most posts are a bit of a rant now...
Don't see it that way personally - the updates are informative, objective and fair IMHO. I can only imagine that what's going on is a bit frustrating, but it unfortunately seems like most posts are a bit of a rant now...
Pretty sure we'd all rather be discussing the fantastic driving experience but fact is it's being clouded by various things going wrong. If the problems didn't exist.......
Just looked at the manual for the 540C. Justin is right - it is "user error" - although I still think it's a very odd design.
The TPMS sensors only transmit once travelling above 6mph - but the key point is : It can take up to 2 mins before this info is shown on the display.
That's very different from the 650, which definitely monitors the instant the car is started. I guess a visual check before setting off is still necessary with this system.
The TPMS sensors only transmit once travelling above 6mph - but the key point is : It can take up to 2 mins before this info is shown on the display.
That's very different from the 650, which definitely monitors the instant the car is started. I guess a visual check before setting off is still necessary with this system.
davek_964 said:
justin220 said:
You can definitely check the tyre pressures when the warning light is on, can't remember exactly how but don't remember it being complicated. Operator error I'm afraid.
I go through the menu system to info, then tyre monitoring.It's not so much that I can't do it when the warning light is on - it's more like I can't do it until about a mile after I've started the car. When the warning comes on telling me I've got low pressure, I can see the pressures. But - when I put air in, the light will stay on until I've done another mile or two - so it's not just that I can't see the pressures in the display - it's also taking the car a mile or two to decide it can extinguish the light. So it's not able to read the pressure during that time either.
McLaren service for the puncture was excellent. I was given the choice of 3 options - AA coming out, car recovered to them or I drive it to them and they'd fix it.
I took option 3, told them when I'd be there - and they swapped the wheels over in 10 mins.
My car is still being checked - no feedback yet on what the solution to the leak is, or when I'll get it back - but I've been told my courtesy car period has been extended to the start of next week.
I know it's not something we're supposed to care about - but I'm still amazed by Justin's mpg. I checked the trip screen yesterday - which includes the previous ~250 miles - and it seems to have averaged about 14mpg. I put petrol in when I got it, which I expected to last far longer than it did - so it seems to be using petrol at the same rate my 650 does. Maybe it would get better if the engine was a bit less new - who knows.
One thing I keep meaning to mention - changing from 1st to Neutral (and back again) is vastly better in the 540. In the 650 it takes about 2s of holding the paddle to go into neutral - and although it's slightly quicker going into 1st it's still a good second plus. It's on the borderline of being impractical because if you're at lights and they turn green, it's quicker to just push the D button.
The 540 is much faster - half a second at most in both directions. You wouldn't even think of using the N / D buttons.
Stereo really is better than mine - do these things have subs? It sounds like it's got a lot more bass than mine, and is much better for it - even though I have played with the settings on mine. As I mentioned, DAB isn't perfect - but it is better. It's good enough that I've left DAB on - with just the occasional gap - whereas on the 650 it's usually bad enough I give up and use FM.
Overall, I'm finding the car more driveable day to day - especially at this time of year. The extra power of the 650 was never a big plus for me - I felt my 400bhp 360 had it about right for congested South East roads. Although there is a certain element of "faster = better" - the power delivery of the 540 seems easier to use, and makes the extra the 650 puts out a bit of a liability. Maybe that would be less true in the summer, although the 540 really is plenty fast enough. If you want to go quickly, it does indeed go quickly. Still keeping the revs fairly sensible but had a great drive to work.
Maybe it's because nothing has broken yet / maybe it's because it's not my car so I wouldn't care if it did / maybe it's because it feels a bit more solid than mine - but I don't expect this car to break, whereas I'd reached the point with mine where I do half the time.
It has restored my faith in the brand quite a lot.
A small part of me wonders whether I bought the right model - given that my use was mostly daily, and that's what the Sport series is supposed to do (and does very well). If I could turn the clock back, I still think I'd have gone the 650 route (although maybe not my 650!) - for the same reasons I did in the first place. I prefer the styling of the 650 (although my 540 is black, and that does suit it very well), I'm not a fan of the computerised dash and much prefer the 650 tacho (although track mode is cool), in fact I prefer the interior overall in the 650 (don't like the floating centre console) and I like the air brake etc.
But these are all pretty much aesthetic. Maybe my perfect car is 650 styling with the 540 practicalities / power delivery etc. Oh - but with a roof that folds down........
I took option 3, told them when I'd be there - and they swapped the wheels over in 10 mins.
My car is still being checked - no feedback yet on what the solution to the leak is, or when I'll get it back - but I've been told my courtesy car period has been extended to the start of next week.
I know it's not something we're supposed to care about - but I'm still amazed by Justin's mpg. I checked the trip screen yesterday - which includes the previous ~250 miles - and it seems to have averaged about 14mpg. I put petrol in when I got it, which I expected to last far longer than it did - so it seems to be using petrol at the same rate my 650 does. Maybe it would get better if the engine was a bit less new - who knows.
One thing I keep meaning to mention - changing from 1st to Neutral (and back again) is vastly better in the 540. In the 650 it takes about 2s of holding the paddle to go into neutral - and although it's slightly quicker going into 1st it's still a good second plus. It's on the borderline of being impractical because if you're at lights and they turn green, it's quicker to just push the D button.
The 540 is much faster - half a second at most in both directions. You wouldn't even think of using the N / D buttons.
Stereo really is better than mine - do these things have subs? It sounds like it's got a lot more bass than mine, and is much better for it - even though I have played with the settings on mine. As I mentioned, DAB isn't perfect - but it is better. It's good enough that I've left DAB on - with just the occasional gap - whereas on the 650 it's usually bad enough I give up and use FM.
Overall, I'm finding the car more driveable day to day - especially at this time of year. The extra power of the 650 was never a big plus for me - I felt my 400bhp 360 had it about right for congested South East roads. Although there is a certain element of "faster = better" - the power delivery of the 540 seems easier to use, and makes the extra the 650 puts out a bit of a liability. Maybe that would be less true in the summer, although the 540 really is plenty fast enough. If you want to go quickly, it does indeed go quickly. Still keeping the revs fairly sensible but had a great drive to work.
Maybe it's because nothing has broken yet / maybe it's because it's not my car so I wouldn't care if it did / maybe it's because it feels a bit more solid than mine - but I don't expect this car to break, whereas I'd reached the point with mine where I do half the time.
It has restored my faith in the brand quite a lot.
A small part of me wonders whether I bought the right model - given that my use was mostly daily, and that's what the Sport series is supposed to do (and does very well). If I could turn the clock back, I still think I'd have gone the 650 route (although maybe not my 650!) - for the same reasons I did in the first place. I prefer the styling of the 650 (although my 540 is black, and that does suit it very well), I'm not a fan of the computerised dash and much prefer the 650 tacho (although track mode is cool), in fact I prefer the interior overall in the 650 (don't like the floating centre console) and I like the air brake etc.
But these are all pretty much aesthetic. Maybe my perfect car is 650 styling with the 540 practicalities / power delivery etc. Oh - but with a roof that folds down........
All this talk of low MPG. I regularly saw over 30mpg in my 12C and a long Euro Trip always got the high 20's including alpine work outs. Even when I drove 'enthusiastically' I could rarely get it into the teens only on track would it get into the teens (single digits actually). This image was verified with actual long hand mathematics and is accurate. The 12C is still my pick of the McLaren range it looks classy and in coupe has more than enough luggage space (more than a 570 GT as we couldn't swap our luggage out of out 12C into a loaner 570GT!). Admittedly The 650S is a slightly better drive and has CF brakes however only the 675LT betters the 12C for fuel economy, strangely I know owners who have seen high 30's from 675's. The sports series cars are a better drive at low speeds than the super series cars as they have better low speed pick up but what the super series loses in low speed drive-ability it makes up for at higher rev's with much more shove at high speed.
PS - I always take a puncture repair kit with me when travelling. I fixed quite a few punctures in my 12C while in the Alps by reaming and plugging the tyre myself. You can buy a kit for £40 on Amazon and they have got me out of many a predicament. All you need is the kit and a foot pump.
Edited with link to tyre plugging kit:-
https://www.amazon.co.uk/STOP-POCKET-TYRE-PLUGGER-...
PS - I always take a puncture repair kit with me when travelling. I fixed quite a few punctures in my 12C while in the Alps by reaming and plugging the tyre myself. You can buy a kit for £40 on Amazon and they have got me out of many a predicament. All you need is the kit and a foot pump.
Edited with link to tyre plugging kit:-
https://www.amazon.co.uk/STOP-POCKET-TYRE-PLUGGER-...
Edited by Bispal on Thursday 12th December 09:10
Bispal said:
PS - I always take a puncture repair kit with me when travelling. I fixed quite a few punctures in my 12C while in the Alps by reaming and plugging the tyre myself. You can buy a kit for £30 of ebay and they have got me out of many a predicament. All you need is the kit and a foot pump.
Could you post a link to the repair kit you're talking about please?PompeyReece said:
Bispal said:
PS - I always take a puncture repair kit with me when travelling. I fixed quite a few punctures in my 12C while in the Alps by reaming and plugging the tyre myself. You can buy a kit for £30 of ebay and they have got me out of many a predicament. All you need is the kit and a foot pump.
Could you post a link to the repair kit you're talking about please?https://www.amazon.co.uk/STOP-POCKET-TYRE-PLUGGER-...
davek_964 said:
The extra power of the 650 was never a big plus for me - I felt my 400bhp 360 had it about right for congested South East roads. Although there is a certain element of "faster = better" - the power delivery of the 540 seems easier to use, and makes the extra the 650 puts out a bit of a liability. Maybe that would be less true in the summer, although the 540 really is plenty fast enough.
FWIW, when its cold AND wet, I use 3rd/4th pulling out of corners on the 650 with a smooth, progressive foot. Thats where the mid-range torque really helps - and you can short shift at 5k to maintain grip. The suspension allows you to rock back onto the rears. Amazing traction even with Pirellis, if you allow them to progressively find grip. Indeed no issue if its dry (even if its cold) to do the same in 2nd, but at a more rapid pace. No need to short shift then, though you may find yourself running out of road.As with all my "new" cars I had a couple of track outings to learn how to drive the 650 - and then I use a tamer version of that on my early AM Sunday hoons. 450hp/tonne is serious business!
Edited by 12pack on Thursday 12th December 10:16
Good to see you're seeing the attraction of the sport series. I think they are superb at the daily stuff.
I genuinely don't think I've ever averaged below 25mpg in mine. I guess the driving I do, predominantly single land A roads and B roads (not a lot of town driving) helps.
It's going to be a tough car to replace when the time comes
I genuinely don't think I've ever averaged below 25mpg in mine. I guess the driving I do, predominantly single land A roads and B roads (not a lot of town driving) helps.
It's going to be a tough car to replace when the time comes
GRD 8 said:
650spider said:
+1
I can only imagine that what's going on is a bit frustrating, but it unfortunately seems like most posts are a bit of a rant now...
Most of all of the other 540 and 570 owners seem more than delighted with their cars...
+1I can only imagine that what's going on is a bit frustrating, but it unfortunately seems like most posts are a bit of a rant now...
Most of all of the other 540 and 570 owners seem more than delighted with their cars...
..though it would be nice if the items were actually items that went wrong - some are just how things work differently. And I for one am never going to complain about having too much power.
Indeed the biggest problem I have with my 650s every time I come back from the US is that the steering wheel is on the wrong side
Indeed the biggest problem I have with my 650s every time I come back from the US is that the steering wheel is on the wrong side
Edited by 12pack on Friday 13th December 11:42
Got the 650 back at the end of last week. They replaced the seal that runs across the car above the windscreen, and then down the front on each side - i.e. where the front of the door windows would seal against.
Nice to be back in my car, but almost constant rain means I hadn't bothered using it since.
Today, the sun was shining briefly so I considered taking it out. I dried off the drivers window to check it looked leak free inside.
There is water on the inside of the glass exactly where it leaked before. There is also water on the inside of the back of the driver side glass so I guess it leaks there too. Passenger side looks bone dry - as it was before.
Car goes back to Ascot again on Monday.
I'm sick of it.
Nice to be back in my car, but almost constant rain means I hadn't bothered using it since.
Today, the sun was shining briefly so I considered taking it out. I dried off the drivers window to check it looked leak free inside.
There is water on the inside of the glass exactly where it leaked before. There is also water on the inside of the back of the driver side glass so I guess it leaks there too. Passenger side looks bone dry - as it was before.
Car goes back to Ascot again on Monday.
I'm sick of it.
davek_964 said:
Got the 650 back at the end of last week. They replaced the seal that runs across the car above the windscreen, and then down the front on each side - i.e. where the front of the door windows would seal against.
Nice to be back in my car, but almost constant rain means I hadn't bothered using it since.
Today, the sun was shining briefly so I considered taking it out. I dried off the drivers window to check it looked leak free inside.
There is water on the inside of the glass exactly where it leaked before. There is also water on the inside of the back of the driver side glass so I guess it leaks there too. Passenger side looks bone dry - as it was before.
Car goes back to Ascot again on Monday.
I'm sick of it.
FFSNice to be back in my car, but almost constant rain means I hadn't bothered using it since.
Today, the sun was shining briefly so I considered taking it out. I dried off the drivers window to check it looked leak free inside.
There is water on the inside of the glass exactly where it leaked before. There is also water on the inside of the back of the driver side glass so I guess it leaks there too. Passenger side looks bone dry - as it was before.
Car goes back to Ascot again on Monday.
I'm sick of it.
Hopefully you are still within your 6 months since purchase as you shall still have the right to reject...i would...in a heartbeat.
They have had ample time and opportunities to remedy a catalogue of issues.
Otherwise, i would imagine it shall be a tricky car to move on afterwards...especially after this thread.
As a comparison, mines has sat idle for around 10 days in the most ridiculous continuous torrential rainstorms, but this morning its a beautiful crisp winter morning...used the 650 for taking my daughter to her sat job...opened up, no leaks, no bongs, no drama, then roof straight down and a fantastic blast about..that's why you buy these cars...not for the s
t you have had to put up with.
On a footnote, the charger is still sealed in the wrapper in its bag; i have never used it and previous owner said he never used it either.
They have had ample time and opportunities to remedy a catalogue of issues.
Otherwise, i would imagine it shall be a tricky car to move on afterwards...especially after this thread.
As a comparison, mines has sat idle for around 10 days in the most ridiculous continuous torrential rainstorms, but this morning its a beautiful crisp winter morning...used the 650 for taking my daughter to her sat job...opened up, no leaks, no bongs, no drama, then roof straight down and a fantastic blast about..that's why you buy these cars...not for the s
t you have had to put up with.On a footnote, the charger is still sealed in the wrapper in its bag; i have never used it and previous owner said he never used it either.
That stupid little seal (I think McLaren refer to it as a “fox ear”) at the A pillar is, imho, the worst design element of the original super series cars. It looks crap, it curls away from the glass and, in my experience, always leaks. My 12C would always leak at that point no matter how they adjusted the door/seal and my 650S has the same problem (did you know they changed the curvature of the door glass and the seals for the 650S to make the doors easier to close/seal). Fortunately it doesn’t rain too much here but I do tape up the top of the seal to prevent water ingress when I’m washing it.
Just by looking at it, it does look like the worst design ever.
I cannot reproduce either leak with several minutes with the hose. It's supposed to rain heavily overnight, so I'll see what happens. I would prefer to have the car over Christmas - even if they provide a McLaren courtesy car - so if it seems leak free in the morning, I'll delay taking it back.
Will stick a towel / paper on top of the door card overnight.
ETA: when sitting in the car, even in light rain I can see the drips forming at the seal. Passenger side is fine so it obviously is possible to make it leak free.
How much water has dropped near the climate controls is anybody's guess.
It will have to go back on Monday.
I cannot reproduce either leak with several minutes with the hose. It's supposed to rain heavily overnight, so I'll see what happens. I would prefer to have the car over Christmas - even if they provide a McLaren courtesy car - so if it seems leak free in the morning, I'll delay taking it back.
Will stick a towel / paper on top of the door card overnight.
ETA: when sitting in the car, even in light rain I can see the drips forming at the seal. Passenger side is fine so it obviously is possible to make it leak free.
How much water has dropped near the climate controls is anybody's guess.
It will have to go back on Monday.
Edited by davek_964 on Saturday 21st December 14:06
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