Living with a McLaren 650s Spider as an (almost) daily
Discussion
Regards to your thoughts about your headlights, i watched an old mr jww youtube video with regards to 'the 5 things i dislike about my 675LT'
No2 on the list was poor headlights that did not have much 'throw'. He had it back to McLaren to rectify and it seems as though no matter how much tweaking they did it was about as good as these lights get.
To be fair i don't do the commutes you do, so my experience with the lights is only really in areas with streetlighting...so i cannot comment as to if they are crap or not.
No2 on the list was poor headlights that did not have much 'throw'. He had it back to McLaren to rectify and it seems as though no matter how much tweaking they did it was about as good as these lights get.
To be fair i don't do the commutes you do, so my experience with the lights is only really in areas with streetlighting...so i cannot comment as to if they are crap or not.
355spiderguy said:
Regards to your thoughts about your headlights, i watched an old mr jww youtube video with regards to 'the 5 things i dislike about my 675LT'
No2 on the list was poor headlights that did not have much 'throw'. He had it back to McLaren to rectify and it seems as though no matter how much tweaking they did it was about as good as these lights get.
To be fair i don't do the commutes you do, so my experience with the lights is only really in areas with streetlighting...so i cannot comment as to if they are crap or not.
I did a search myself a while back, and found the opposite. A few people complaining that the lights had no range, but after a visit to the dealer and adjustment they seemed to be fixed. No2 on the list was poor headlights that did not have much 'throw'. He had it back to McLaren to rectify and it seems as though no matter how much tweaking they did it was about as good as these lights get.
To be fair i don't do the commutes you do, so my experience with the lights is only really in areas with streetlighting...so i cannot comment as to if they are crap or not.
They don't seem to lack brightness - they just don't point far enough away - so hopefully it can be sorted out.
I didn't use the car all weekend, so was looking forward to using it this morning - however, it was raining as usual and as well as the drips on the passenger seat, it seems that it must drip on the driver side too, because I realised I had a slightly wet back on the way to work.
When I read about other owners issues - here and on the owners group - it actually makes me feel I've got one of the good ones. There are certainly owners who seem to have the perfect / nothing is ever wrong ones, but there are also cars which are a lot worse than mine!
I am hoping that Ascot will fix the leaking roof, adjust the headlights and update any out of date software (although I'd expect that to be done as part of sale for a qualified car, so either I'm expecting too much or the software should be pretty up to date). In reality - although it's annoying - if I get a car back that doesn't leak in the rain, and I can see where I'm going in the dark - I can probably live with the other niggles I've had so far (although actually, they do need to fix the mirror problem too, since that happened twice in 3 days).
One very odd side effect of owning the 650 : My Cayenne has always been the most comfortable car I've owned. Not surprising really, the seats are big - it's a bit like sitting on a sofa - loads of leg space, and really all about being a comfortable car.
Now that the 650 is my mostly-daily - I find the Cayenne pretty uncomfortable in comparison - I look forward to getting back in the 650. Bizarre given the type of car it is - for all it's apparent issues, there are definitely some things about the car they got right!
Davek, hopefully this will make you feel a little better - another day another problem for me:
Went to open door today, button on door wouldn't work. Had to double tap the remote to pop the door. The window rolled all the way down. Now it won't stay up, just rolls straight back down again - and the drivers door button has completely stopped working.
Drove to my service center and dropped it off. Told them I didn't want the car back unless they can fix it. List as follows:
Engine system fault
Drivers door won't open / window won't close
Air conditioning only works some of the time
Comfort access does not work reliably
Cracked windshield due to manufacturing defect - been waiting almost 5 weeks for a replacement
The 570 is supposed to be their daily driver. What a joke. McLaren cars are total junk as far as I am concerned.
Went to open door today, button on door wouldn't work. Had to double tap the remote to pop the door. The window rolled all the way down. Now it won't stay up, just rolls straight back down again - and the drivers door button has completely stopped working.
Drove to my service center and dropped it off. Told them I didn't want the car back unless they can fix it. List as follows:
Engine system fault
Drivers door won't open / window won't close
Air conditioning only works some of the time
Comfort access does not work reliably
Cracked windshield due to manufacturing defect - been waiting almost 5 weeks for a replacement
The 570 is supposed to be their daily driver. What a joke. McLaren cars are total junk as far as I am concerned.
EK993 said:
Davek, hopefully this will make you feel a little better - another day another problem for me:
Went to open door today, button on door wouldn't work. Had to double tap the remote to pop the door. The window rolled all the way down. Now it won't stay up, just rolls straight back down again - and the drivers door button has completely stopped working.
Drove to my service center and dropped it off. Told them I didn't want the car back unless they can fix it. List as follows:
Engine system fault
Drivers door won't open / window won't close
Air conditioning only works some of the time
Comfort access does not work reliably
Cracked windshield due to manufacturing defect - been waiting almost 5 weeks for a replacement
The 570 is supposed to be their daily driver. What a joke. McLaren cars are total junk as far as I am concerned.
To be honest, stuff like this worries me more. Most of my issues are fairly minor niggles - a leaking roof is a big problem for a car that lives outside, but mostly it's just annoying that it has a problem so often. But when I see stuff like this I just think I've got a whole lot more grief coming that I didn't know about!Went to open door today, button on door wouldn't work. Had to double tap the remote to pop the door. The window rolled all the way down. Now it won't stay up, just rolls straight back down again - and the drivers door button has completely stopped working.
Drove to my service center and dropped it off. Told them I didn't want the car back unless they can fix it. List as follows:
Engine system fault
Drivers door won't open / window won't close
Air conditioning only works some of the time
Comfort access does not work reliably
Cracked windshield due to manufacturing defect - been waiting almost 5 weeks for a replacement
The 570 is supposed to be their daily driver. What a joke. McLaren cars are total junk as far as I am concerned.
I do like my car though, and I do want to keep it for a few years. I'm hoping it will start behaving enough that I can....
Car was dropped at Ascot yesterday - expecting a phone call by the end of today with an estimate of how long they'll have it.
This morning, I used my Cayenne and paid a lot of attention to the headlights to see just how they compare to the 650 (I don't even know what type of lights the Cayenne has - but it's 16 years old, so whatever was hi-tech in 2003).
The 650 lights are much brighter, and much more white - Cayenne lights are pretty yellow and compared to the 650 quite a lot dimmer. The issue with the 650 is clearly just the adjustment - if I left the Cayenne on low beam, I'd say that was very very close to how far ahead I can see in the 650 when it's on main beam. Switch the Cayenne to main beam and there is no comparison.
I'm pretty sure they should be able to adjust the lights to solve my problem - they are definitely brighter than the Cayenne so they really should be able to point a lot further forward! (And it did also show that even when the 650 is on low beam, it's not pointing as far ahead as the Cayenne does on low beam).
This morning, I used my Cayenne and paid a lot of attention to the headlights to see just how they compare to the 650 (I don't even know what type of lights the Cayenne has - but it's 16 years old, so whatever was hi-tech in 2003).
The 650 lights are much brighter, and much more white - Cayenne lights are pretty yellow and compared to the 650 quite a lot dimmer. The issue with the 650 is clearly just the adjustment - if I left the Cayenne on low beam, I'd say that was very very close to how far ahead I can see in the 650 when it's on main beam. Switch the Cayenne to main beam and there is no comparison.
I'm pretty sure they should be able to adjust the lights to solve my problem - they are definitely brighter than the Cayenne so they really should be able to point a lot further forward! (And it did also show that even when the 650 is on low beam, it's not pointing as far ahead as the Cayenne does on low beam).
davek_964 said:
To be honest, stuff like this worries me more. Most of my issues are fairly minor niggles - a leaking roof is a big problem for a car that lives outside, but mostly it's just annoying that it has a problem so often. But when I see stuff like this I just think I've got a whole lot more grief coming that I didn't know about!
I do like my car though, and I do want to keep it for a few years. I'm hoping it will start behaving enough that I can....
I've had two 12C's, bought used. Neither car had any problems. I put 23,000 miles on the first and 14,000 miles on the second.The 650s is pretty much the same car so hopefully you will have a fantastic driving future to look forward to once you get these issues sorted. Speak to Ben at Ascot, get to know him and he will look after you. Great car by the way...I do like my car though, and I do want to keep it for a few years. I'm hoping it will start behaving enough that I can....
JB12C said:
I've had two 12C's, bought used. Neither car had any problems. I put 23,000 miles on the first and 14,000 miles on the second.The 650s is pretty much the same car so hopefully you will have a fantastic driving future to look forward to once you get these issues sorted. Speak to Ben at Ascot, get to know him and he will look after you. Great car by the way...
sounds like big quality control issues then, you were lucky to get a good appleWCZ said:
sounds like big quality control issues then, you were lucky to get a good apple
I think that's the crux, there are far too many stories of cars having problem after problem, yet there are owners like me who's car has never needed to visit the dealers except for servicing. Mine's been a total joy to own, yet it's embarrassing to read about the terrible quality of other peoples cars. Even with the niggling faults - it's difficult to think of anything that could replace it. I was thinking about it this morning - if I get to the Spring and am still annoyed by problems, what would I replace it with?
It replaced an Aston Vantage - and although I liked that car and will probably own one again - the McLaren is better at just about everything, including GT stuff like motorway cruising that suits the Aston.
Ignoring luggage space, mpg and that kind of thing, it's the best daily car I've owned.
It looks amazing and is ballistic if you want it to be.
Wouldn't be easy to find an alternative I don't think - not in a single car anyway.
It replaced an Aston Vantage - and although I liked that car and will probably own one again - the McLaren is better at just about everything, including GT stuff like motorway cruising that suits the Aston.
Ignoring luggage space, mpg and that kind of thing, it's the best daily car I've owned.
It looks amazing and is ballistic if you want it to be.
Wouldn't be easy to find an alternative I don't think - not in a single car anyway.
They are great all round cars, I had a small number of issues when I bought it but since they have been resolved and it’s been driven regularly it seems to be quite happy. I did the Wales trip this weekend, the biggest issue was a chip in my PPF, after spending 90mins washing it on Sunday evening and after 4 days and 1000miles I still wanted a quick drive!
Awesome insightful thread, Davek.
Sounds like pound-for-pound your Ferrari 360 offers 90% of what the 650S does, but for half the price... and with (surprisingly) better steering feel, better throttle response and (unsurprisingly!) better vocals
Keep the updates and comparisons between the two cars coming
Sounds like pound-for-pound your Ferrari 360 offers 90% of what the 650S does, but for half the price... and with (surprisingly) better steering feel, better throttle response and (unsurprisingly!) better vocals
Keep the updates and comparisons between the two cars coming
TobyTR said:
Sounds like pound-for-pound your Ferrari 360 offers 90% of what the 650S does, but for half the price... and with (surprisingly) better steering feel, better throttle response and (unsurprisingly!) better vocals
Yes and no.If you're going out for a blast down a twisty road, then my feeling at the moment is that's probably mostly true. The 360 seems easier to pilot quickly down a road I know - because I can floor it out of a bend without worrying too much that the wheels will spin - the 650 either needs the revs keeping way down (which it's actually as fast as the 360 anyway), or a lot more control of the accelerator.
360 definitely does sound better - although I guess it's an unfair comparison (NA vs turbo).
I'm not entirely happy with how the 650 turns into bends - not only did the 360 feel much quicker when I used it a few weeks ago - but it does feel like the 650 wants to run wide. However, it may be an unfair comparison - the 650 may well need the alignment doing. I'm put off a little by that at the moment having been told by another owner that a McLaren dealer will charge me £750+vat to do the alignment, unless I can negotiate a discount........ that seems a tad expensive. I think the indy (Thorney) probably charges much less - so when I get my car back from McLaren (hopefully with non-leaking roof and headlights that point the right way) I may look into that.
Having said all that - much as I love the 360 - I have only used it one single time since buying the 650 on 24th August. Partly that's due to the fact that it's rained ever since - but it's also because there is one area the 650 scores that the 360 doesn't. The McLaren is useable in just about every situation - it's very very comfortable, the suspension is brilliant (I almost always use the 360 in sport mode, but I've started leaving the 650 in normal because it soaks up bumps and is firm enough for going quickly). It is the best daily car I've ever had - whereas the 360 can be a bit tiring to use daily - it's not a car I'd enjoy doing that in.
Since I don't have the 650 this week - and it seems it will be longer than that, since I dropped the car off at the end of Monday (wrongly) expecting it to be looked at on Tuesday - I had intended to use the 360 a couple of times, but so far I've not seen a dry morning! (Although at least the 360 doesn't leak when it rains........)
Edited by davek_964 on Thursday 17th October 07:21
With all due respect to you, Dave, I feel I must now comment on the ongoing driving comparison between a 360 and a 650s. Sorry, but they are just in different leagues. I was looking into a 360 when I needed to dump my horrible 355, but went into the brand new V12 Vantage instead because that felt so much stronger, and more alive.
And now the 650 feels just that must stronger than the V12 Vantage. I fear a 360 is nowhere in sight.
Based on the nicely detailed descriptions, I do think you are comparing how the cars feel at 5/10ths, where the Mac is by design comfortably loping along. Regarding your feeling like the 650 is pulling wide - as commented somewhere back earlier - I think you are just comparing the steering ratio.
Sorry if I come across as some kind of McLaren fanatic, but I do drive my cars hard and on track, so I feel like I must comment to give another dimension to the comparison regarding the driving experience.
But I'm only commenting on the driving comparison - certainly appreciate your detailed comments on all the niggles. Very interested to hear if and how your dealer resolves them.
And now the 650 feels just that must stronger than the V12 Vantage. I fear a 360 is nowhere in sight.
Based on the nicely detailed descriptions, I do think you are comparing how the cars feel at 5/10ths, where the Mac is by design comfortably loping along. Regarding your feeling like the 650 is pulling wide - as commented somewhere back earlier - I think you are just comparing the steering ratio.
Sorry if I come across as some kind of McLaren fanatic, but I do drive my cars hard and on track, so I feel like I must comment to give another dimension to the comparison regarding the driving experience.
But I'm only commenting on the driving comparison - certainly appreciate your detailed comments on all the niggles. Very interested to hear if and how your dealer resolves them.
12pack said:
With all due respect to you, Dave, I feel I must now comment on the ongoing driving comparison between a 360 and a 650s. Sorry, but they are just in different leagues. I was looking into a 360 when I needed to dump my horrible 355, but went into the brand new V12 Vantage instead because that felt so much stronger, and more alive.
And now the 650 feels just that must stronger than the V12 Vantage. I fear a 360 is nowhere in sight.
Based on the nicely detailed descriptions, I do think you are comparing how the cars feel at 5/10ths, where the Mac is by design comfortably loping along. Regarding your feeling like the 650 is pulling wide - as commented somewhere back earlier - I think you are just comparing the steering ratio.
Sorry if I come across as some kind of McLaren fanatic, but I do drive my cars hard and on track, so I feel like I must comment to give another dimension to the comparison regarding the driving experience.
But I'm only commenting on the driving comparison - certainly appreciate your detailed comments on all the niggles. Very interested to hear if and how your dealer resolves them.
It may well be the steering ratio - but even if that's the case, I think I prefer the tighter turn in of the 360. That might just be because I've owned it 6 years vs 6 weeks though, and am used to it.And now the 650 feels just that must stronger than the V12 Vantage. I fear a 360 is nowhere in sight.
Based on the nicely detailed descriptions, I do think you are comparing how the cars feel at 5/10ths, where the Mac is by design comfortably loping along. Regarding your feeling like the 650 is pulling wide - as commented somewhere back earlier - I think you are just comparing the steering ratio.
Sorry if I come across as some kind of McLaren fanatic, but I do drive my cars hard and on track, so I feel like I must comment to give another dimension to the comparison regarding the driving experience.
But I'm only commenting on the driving comparison - certainly appreciate your detailed comments on all the niggles. Very interested to hear if and how your dealer resolves them.
Performance wise, I agree the 650 is in a different league, and indeed - down a twisty road it can compete with the 360 even at 5/10ths. However, I think that there's more to the "fun" aspect of a car than how quickly it can go and I'm not sure (yet) that the 650 beats the 360 in that comparison.
I have taken the 360 on track - albeit only on the supercar weekend with passengers - but it does mean I "know" the car a lot more than I do the 650. I'd really like to take the 650 on a track - either at the next supercar weekend or before, and I think I'd get to know its capabilities a lot more if I did - but stories of chocolate discs and £12k replacement costs (plus the risk that it would void warranty claims) makes me a bit nervous.
I still love the 650, and I'm still glad I bought it - I don't regret it. But I'm not sure yet whether it will be a long term ownership or an expensive short one.
davek_964 said:
...However, I think that there's more to the "fun" aspect of a car than how quickly it can go and I'm not sure (yet) that the 650 beats the 360 in that comparison...
Absolutely there is. But why does the one have to beat the other? They're doing different things. How do you justify having more than one car in the first place? Surely it is because you want them to do something different and to give you a different experience? So, you're using the 650 daily and the 360 is an occasional sunny Sunday morning, roof down, jaunt for the hell of it. Nothing wrong with that and no reason why they need to be able to swap places. Gassing Station | McLaren | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff