Living with a McLaren 650s Spider as an (almost) daily
Discussion
I was about to pull the trigger on a very low mileage 650s spider at McBrum but I spotted a disconnected engine bay strut and dodgy paint on the roof so I pulled out mainly because if that’s what I found after 30 minutes test drive, god knows what I’d have found after getting it home.
I really want a mclaren but my distance to a dealer and these niggling problems just don’t add up.
I really want a mclaren but my distance to a dealer and these niggling problems just don’t add up.
Just got back in "my" 540C courtesy car. First impressions :
I know the doors open differently on the sport series cars, and it is much better. I occasionally wish my car had normal doors - I don't think I would with these.
The headlights - they are in a different league. I didn't get a chance to use high beam, but it doesn't matter - even on low beam there is a massively wide spread of light. Mine are more like spotlights. It makes me wonder if the problem with mine is more about the reflectors than the adjustment. I don't expect Ascot to take much notice anyway - they'll just say it's a different model.
It's much quieter than mine - mine has sports exhaust, maybe this doesn't.
I guess they're different options but my seats are much much more comfortable. These are OK, but mine are so much better.
The suspension is much more forgiving than mine - even before I changed tyres. I've always wondered if mine is more harsh than it should be and this makes me wonder more, but it would be easier to know if it had been a 650.
Low down power at slow speed felt more instant - and putting your foot down felt much more NA than mine does. I didn't get a chance to drive properly quickly - but I did briefly get to put my foot down. It is very quick, but the difference felt greater than I expected. Very fast, whereas the 650 feels ballistic. It felt like I could happily floor it in the 540 - whereas the 650 is a bit more..."Are you SURE you really want to put your foot down that much?". However, I wonder if that's partly because the 540 acceleration felt a bit less turbo and hence a bit more linear.
God knows what a 720 feels like if that's how different the 540 and 650 feel.
Brakes are a lot more instant - and in fact, when I was reversing in the car park felt quite grabby. I got used to them quickly, but think I prefer the 650 ones (guess it's steel vs ceramic).
Stereo sounded better than mine, but DAB was just as crap. Climate controls being part of IRIS is annoying - much prefer mine.
There was an annoying electrical whine - fairly low volume but annoying when you noticed it.
It felt very solidly put together. And it felt much more 911 like than mine does - but I guess that was kind of what McLaren were aiming for.
I actually hope it takes them a few days to fix mine, because it's interesting to compare. It was a very pleasant car to drive. But so far, it doesn't make me regret going the 650 route (and it was annoying having no roof to put down!)
I know the doors open differently on the sport series cars, and it is much better. I occasionally wish my car had normal doors - I don't think I would with these.
The headlights - they are in a different league. I didn't get a chance to use high beam, but it doesn't matter - even on low beam there is a massively wide spread of light. Mine are more like spotlights. It makes me wonder if the problem with mine is more about the reflectors than the adjustment. I don't expect Ascot to take much notice anyway - they'll just say it's a different model.
It's much quieter than mine - mine has sports exhaust, maybe this doesn't.
I guess they're different options but my seats are much much more comfortable. These are OK, but mine are so much better.
The suspension is much more forgiving than mine - even before I changed tyres. I've always wondered if mine is more harsh than it should be and this makes me wonder more, but it would be easier to know if it had been a 650.
Low down power at slow speed felt more instant - and putting your foot down felt much more NA than mine does. I didn't get a chance to drive properly quickly - but I did briefly get to put my foot down. It is very quick, but the difference felt greater than I expected. Very fast, whereas the 650 feels ballistic. It felt like I could happily floor it in the 540 - whereas the 650 is a bit more..."Are you SURE you really want to put your foot down that much?". However, I wonder if that's partly because the 540 acceleration felt a bit less turbo and hence a bit more linear.
God knows what a 720 feels like if that's how different the 540 and 650 feel.
Brakes are a lot more instant - and in fact, when I was reversing in the car park felt quite grabby. I got used to them quickly, but think I prefer the 650 ones (guess it's steel vs ceramic).
Stereo sounded better than mine, but DAB was just as crap. Climate controls being part of IRIS is annoying - much prefer mine.
There was an annoying electrical whine - fairly low volume but annoying when you noticed it.
It felt very solidly put together. And it felt much more 911 like than mine does - but I guess that was kind of what McLaren were aiming for.
I actually hope it takes them a few days to fix mine, because it's interesting to compare. It was a very pleasant car to drive. But so far, it doesn't make me regret going the 650 route (and it was annoying having no roof to put down!)
Davek, if this the US I would use the lemon law and return your 650s. Your descriptions, and now of the comparison to the 540, makes me think you’ve got a salvage car or something similar.
If I can’t find the link to my post comparing the 650 to the 570 I tried. Completely different views of the suspension and the throttle response, which is why I was so impressed with the 650.
Meanwhile, here’s one posted by a professional.
https://www.carthrottle.com/post/6-ways-the-mclare...
My offer to drive out in mine stands.
I think you have a problem, non-representative car. Give it back.
If I can’t find the link to my post comparing the 650 to the 570 I tried. Completely different views of the suspension and the throttle response, which is why I was so impressed with the 650.
Meanwhile, here’s one posted by a professional.
https://www.carthrottle.com/post/6-ways-the-mclare...
My offer to drive out in mine stands.
I think you have a problem, non-representative car. Give it back.
I think you're a bit far from me.
I'm not sure that review differs so much in his the power delivery felt to me.
But I will get them to check my suspension while it's there and I will mention the headlights yet again
ETA: Just tried a brief run on my daily route.
May have been wrong about the suspension. Felt very compliant on the way home, but harsher than mine on my commuting roads. I've asked them to check mine anyway.
I still think the same about the power though. It feels more linear than the 650 - but that's not a negative on the 650. It's more a case of the power on the 650 is a whole other level when the revs rise. The 540 feels quick, but the 650 feels like a rocket ship in comparison - the difference is more pronounced than I expected. And because it feels like that, it feels that you can take a few more liberties when driving the 540 quickly - it's a bit less likely to bite.
Feels nicely balanced. It's a nice car.
I'm not sure that review differs so much in his the power delivery felt to me.
But I will get them to check my suspension while it's there and I will mention the headlights yet again
ETA: Just tried a brief run on my daily route.
May have been wrong about the suspension. Felt very compliant on the way home, but harsher than mine on my commuting roads. I've asked them to check mine anyway.
I still think the same about the power though. It feels more linear than the 650 - but that's not a negative on the 650. It's more a case of the power on the 650 is a whole other level when the revs rise. The 540 feels quick, but the 650 feels like a rocket ship in comparison - the difference is more pronounced than I expected. And because it feels like that, it feels that you can take a few more liberties when driving the 540 quickly - it's a bit less likely to bite.
Feels nicely balanced. It's a nice car.
Edited by davek_964 on Monday 9th December 20:30
Another nice honest review, I think you are experiencing the limitations of the conventional suspension on the sports series compared to the cross-linked wizardry on the Super Series.
Strange that the lights are so different though, I just assumed they were the same units on the 650 to those on the Sports Series.
Strange that the lights are so different though, I just assumed they were the same units on the 650 to those on the Sports Series.
So - second thoughts :
Firstly, it's lucky I didn't get a chance to go properly quickly yesterday - I noticed this morning it's only done 250 miles. So maybe need to be a bit gentle with it.
Suspension : Not softer than mine - don't know why I thought so when I collected the car.
Power : When I mentioned it was more instant yesterday, I was talking about low rpm / low speed - i.e. 2k rpm at walking speed. However, I can see why this sounded wrong to 12pack. I got a clear run down the twisty road that approaches my work this morning - I don't scream down there at high revs - there isn't any point with such short distance between the bends, especially at this time of year in the dark. However - I do drive pretty quickly at around 4-5k rpm. There is a big difference between the two cars at this engine speed. The 540 feels quick - and very planted - but needs much more accelerator travel if you want to push on. It feels like you can accelerate (pretty quickly) between the bends quite naturally, but if you really want to go as fast as you can and outbrake yourself then you need to make that conscious decision and really floor it. The 650 accelerates much harder with much less pedal travel - when I'm driving that down the twisty road, I'm making a conscious effort to keep the acceleration sensible - as opposed to making a conscious effort to go faster.
I can hear the turbos spool up quite often on mine - haven't heard them on the 540 at all.
Headlights : This is a curious one. As I said yesterday, the low beam proves mine are crap - on the 540 it's just a lovely big rectangular spread of bright light. This morning, I got to use high beam.
Again - it's clear mine are knackered in comparison. These work properly, and you can see much much further ahead (and much wider). However - the beam pattern is a little odd, and not one I've come across before. On high beam it's like a projected circle of light - I guess I might not have noticed if I wasn't paying so much attention to the lights. It works - you can see plenty - but it is an odd shape pattern.
Doors : I mentioned them yesterday, but will mention them again - so much easier to get in and out! (Also due to the sill I guess).
Reversing camera : Not an option mine has, and based on fairly universal comments I've seen I expected it to be awful, with the resolution of a 1980s Atari video game. Not so - seems perfectly clear and a perfectly good picture. On the other hand, having it in the dash display - which means you can't see it when you're reversing out of the drive on full lock and the paddles etc. are obscuring the display - makes it a tad useless.
Interestingly - there is absolutely zero tyre skipping on this car when turning tightly - whereas mine was absolutely awful with the Pirelli. Maybe due to different tyre sizes, maybe different turning circles, maybe new tyres vs 5 year old ones - who knows.
Minor irritation - blimey, the indicators are loud in this. It's like somebody is knocking on a small hollow box. Yuk.
Overall impression is that this is a great car - I'm impressed. However, the difference between it and the 650 is more than I expected. I always thought that there was a lot of similarity between the cars, with the power output being the major difference. Even though I bought one - I also suspected that some of the super series features were more of a successful marketing job than something I'd notice in the real world. But that isn't the case - the cars feel far more different than I expected.
If I had the money, I'd use my 650 (or 720 or....) on sunny weekends and have a 540 / 570 as a daily. I find the 650 superb as a daily car - and didn't really think there was a need for a "more daily" McLaren - but there is something about the 540 which makes it feel more like it suits that role. I'm not even sure why, since I didn't think the 650 was lacking in that regard. Whatever it is though - it was McLaren's design brief and they seem to have got it right.
Bottom line though, is that I'm glad I went for the 650. The 540 is brilliant - but I prefer mine overall.
Firstly, it's lucky I didn't get a chance to go properly quickly yesterday - I noticed this morning it's only done 250 miles. So maybe need to be a bit gentle with it.
Suspension : Not softer than mine - don't know why I thought so when I collected the car.
Power : When I mentioned it was more instant yesterday, I was talking about low rpm / low speed - i.e. 2k rpm at walking speed. However, I can see why this sounded wrong to 12pack. I got a clear run down the twisty road that approaches my work this morning - I don't scream down there at high revs - there isn't any point with such short distance between the bends, especially at this time of year in the dark. However - I do drive pretty quickly at around 4-5k rpm. There is a big difference between the two cars at this engine speed. The 540 feels quick - and very planted - but needs much more accelerator travel if you want to push on. It feels like you can accelerate (pretty quickly) between the bends quite naturally, but if you really want to go as fast as you can and outbrake yourself then you need to make that conscious decision and really floor it. The 650 accelerates much harder with much less pedal travel - when I'm driving that down the twisty road, I'm making a conscious effort to keep the acceleration sensible - as opposed to making a conscious effort to go faster.
I can hear the turbos spool up quite often on mine - haven't heard them on the 540 at all.
Headlights : This is a curious one. As I said yesterday, the low beam proves mine are crap - on the 540 it's just a lovely big rectangular spread of bright light. This morning, I got to use high beam.
Again - it's clear mine are knackered in comparison. These work properly, and you can see much much further ahead (and much wider). However - the beam pattern is a little odd, and not one I've come across before. On high beam it's like a projected circle of light - I guess I might not have noticed if I wasn't paying so much attention to the lights. It works - you can see plenty - but it is an odd shape pattern.
Doors : I mentioned them yesterday, but will mention them again - so much easier to get in and out! (Also due to the sill I guess).
Reversing camera : Not an option mine has, and based on fairly universal comments I've seen I expected it to be awful, with the resolution of a 1980s Atari video game. Not so - seems perfectly clear and a perfectly good picture. On the other hand, having it in the dash display - which means you can't see it when you're reversing out of the drive on full lock and the paddles etc. are obscuring the display - makes it a tad useless.
Interestingly - there is absolutely zero tyre skipping on this car when turning tightly - whereas mine was absolutely awful with the Pirelli. Maybe due to different tyre sizes, maybe different turning circles, maybe new tyres vs 5 year old ones - who knows.
Minor irritation - blimey, the indicators are loud in this. It's like somebody is knocking on a small hollow box. Yuk.
Overall impression is that this is a great car - I'm impressed. However, the difference between it and the 650 is more than I expected. I always thought that there was a lot of similarity between the cars, with the power output being the major difference. Even though I bought one - I also suspected that some of the super series features were more of a successful marketing job than something I'd notice in the real world. But that isn't the case - the cars feel far more different than I expected.
If I had the money, I'd use my 650 (or 720 or....) on sunny weekends and have a 540 / 570 as a daily. I find the 650 superb as a daily car - and didn't really think there was a need for a "more daily" McLaren - but there is something about the 540 which makes it feel more like it suits that role. I'm not even sure why, since I didn't think the 650 was lacking in that regard. Whatever it is though - it was McLaren's design brief and they seem to have got it right.
Bottom line though, is that I'm glad I went for the 650. The 540 is brilliant - but I prefer mine overall.
davek_964 said:
Headlights : This is a curious one. As I said yesterday, the low beam proves mine are crap - on the 540 it's just a lovely big rectangular spread of bright light. This morning, I got to use high beam.
Again - it's clear mine are knackered in comparison. These work properly, and you can see much much further ahead (and much wider). However - the beam pattern is a little odd, and not one I've come across before. On high beam it's like a projected circle of light - I guess I might not have noticed if I wasn't paying so much attention to the lights. It works - you can see plenty - but it is an odd shape pattern.
Dave, just wonder whilst you have the 540, you drive it to a spot where the headlights really illuminate the road then take photos on low and full beam. When you get your car back, drive to the same spot and do the same then compare with the 540. You'll then at least have photographic evidence of the difference which might help your cause?Again - it's clear mine are knackered in comparison. These work properly, and you can see much much further ahead (and much wider). However - the beam pattern is a little odd, and not one I've come across before. On high beam it's like a projected circle of light - I guess I might not have noticed if I wasn't paying so much attention to the lights. It works - you can see plenty - but it is an odd shape pattern.
Just a thought!
PompeyReece said:
Dave, just wonder whilst you have the 540, you drive it to a spot where the headlights really illuminate the road then take photos on low and full beam. When you get your car back, drive to the same spot and do the same then compare with the 540. You'll then at least have photographic evidence of the difference which might help your cause?
Just a thought!
Yeah - that had occurred to me, and I think I will. Should have done it this morning!Just a thought!
The Surveyor said:
Given your woes with the 650s, how does the build quality feel?
Have they made any real improvements at the McLaren factory, does the new 540c is better screwed together than your 650 or do they feel equally robust / fragile?
It feels very solid, and very well put together. I wouldn't say my 650 feels fragile - but I'd say the 540 feels "more German" than my 650 does. It really does remind me of a much prettier 911 - although my last 911 turbo was a different generation (2002).Have they made any real improvements at the McLaren factory, does the new 540c is better screwed together than your 650 or do they feel equally robust / fragile?
I've never noticed before - but the stupid quarter window in my 650 (which is causing the leak) isn't present in the sport series cars. I did think it was a stupid design for a frameless window - and perhaps McLaren realised that too!
I've mentioned my headlights on the owners group - and apparently, although they look similar - the 540 / 570 headlights are not the same as the 650 - they are a much improved design.
Apparently, the super series headlights really are garbage - so it seems I should simply save myself the trouble of arguing with the dealer.
The headlights on my 570s are exactly as you describe on the 540, very bright and on full beam a round shape concentrated on the middle of the road...in truth I think I'd slightly prefer a bit more light on the edges too. I'm very impressed with the build quality of my car everything feels solid the indicator stalks for example have a much more solid movement than on my old Vantage and the material they are hewn from much higher quality.
RSbandit said:
The headlights on my 570s are exactly as you describe on the 540, very bright and on full beam a round shape concentrated on the middle of the road...in truth I think I'd slightly prefer a bit more light on the edges too. I'm very impressed with the build quality of my car everything feels solid the indicator stalks for example have a much more solid movement than on my old Vantage and the material they are hewn from much higher quality.
Trust me - you have nothing to complain about! Your lights on low beam are better than my 650 on high beam.I'm going to superglue some candles to the front splitter........
I really don't have much luck with McLarens - the courtesy car has a fairly severe puncture.
Got an alert on the way home from work yesterday - front right was 1.5bar vs 2.2 on the others. Hoped it was just that the tyre wasn't inflated properly and topped it up.
This morning, a mile down the road - 1.3bar.
The pressure monitoring seems crap compared to mine - I don't know if it's a fault, or just works differently. When mine seemed to have a slow leak from the right rear, it would alert me the instant I started the car in the morning. This one doesn't - I seem unable to view the pressures when I start the car - it says conditions not met.
I was a mile from work when it suddenly warned me the pressure was low yesterday - and I could then see what they were. When I put air in the tyre - it kept the warning light on for a mile - and wouldn't let me see the pressures during that time.
This morning, it was also about a mile from home before it warned me - and again, after I put air in it was about 2 miles before the light went out and it would let me check the pressures on the display. Very odd.
On a different subject - I'm not a big fan of the brake feel. I said in my initial post that it felt grabby when moving around the car park - the pedal has a lot less travel and feels much harder than mine. It makes the brakes feel a bit less progressive - which is surprising, because I know that was a complaint of the original 12C, and although I know it was supposed to be fixed for the 650 I'd assume the steel brakes of the 540 would feel better than my ceramics. Although it might just be because these are totally new (~250 miles) vs the 9.5k miles mine have done.
Still like the car - although I really do think putting climate controls in IRIS was utterly stupid. Windscreen was misted up this morning - but after I'd started the car, IRIS still didn't seem to be fully awake so I couldn't demist it. We're talking seconds rather than minutes while waiting for it to fully boot up - but it was bloody irritating!
Got an alert on the way home from work yesterday - front right was 1.5bar vs 2.2 on the others. Hoped it was just that the tyre wasn't inflated properly and topped it up.
This morning, a mile down the road - 1.3bar.
The pressure monitoring seems crap compared to mine - I don't know if it's a fault, or just works differently. When mine seemed to have a slow leak from the right rear, it would alert me the instant I started the car in the morning. This one doesn't - I seem unable to view the pressures when I start the car - it says conditions not met.
I was a mile from work when it suddenly warned me the pressure was low yesterday - and I could then see what they were. When I put air in the tyre - it kept the warning light on for a mile - and wouldn't let me see the pressures during that time.
This morning, it was also about a mile from home before it warned me - and again, after I put air in it was about 2 miles before the light went out and it would let me check the pressures on the display. Very odd.
On a different subject - I'm not a big fan of the brake feel. I said in my initial post that it felt grabby when moving around the car park - the pedal has a lot less travel and feels much harder than mine. It makes the brakes feel a bit less progressive - which is surprising, because I know that was a complaint of the original 12C, and although I know it was supposed to be fixed for the 650 I'd assume the steel brakes of the 540 would feel better than my ceramics. Although it might just be because these are totally new (~250 miles) vs the 9.5k miles mine have done.
Still like the car - although I really do think putting climate controls in IRIS was utterly stupid. Windscreen was misted up this morning - but after I'd started the car, IRIS still didn't seem to be fully awake so I couldn't demist it. We're talking seconds rather than minutes while waiting for it to fully boot up - but it was bloody irritating!
You can definitely check the tyre pressures when the warning light is on, can't remember exactly how but don't remember it being complicated. Operator error I'm afraid.
Agree on the climate controls being in IRIS a it of a pain.. It's something I see as a quirk rather than an irritation though. That's just me.
Agree on the climate controls being in IRIS a it of a pain.. It's something I see as a quirk rather than an irritation though. That's just me.
justin220 said:
You can definitely check the tyre pressures when the warning light is on, can't remember exactly how but don't remember it being complicated. Operator error I'm afraid.
I go through the menu system to info, then tyre monitoring.It's not so much that I can't do it when the warning light is on - it's more like I can't do it until about a mile after I've started the car. When the warning comes on telling me I've got low pressure, I can see the pressures. But - when I put air in, the light will stay on until I've done another mile or two - so it's not just that I can't see the pressures in the display - it's also taking the car a mile or two to decide it can extinguish the light. So it's not able to read the pressure during that time either.
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