Living with a McLaren 650s Spider as an (almost) daily

Living with a McLaren 650s Spider as an (almost) daily

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davek_964

Original Poster:

8,796 posts

174 months

Monday 29th June 2020
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Noticed yesterday that my suspension feels rock hard - even on Normal setting. To the point where even small bumps in road are bouncing me out of the seat. I suspect it may need checking.

However - first I decided I'd check the tyre pressure to make sure it wasn't too high - which it was on the 3 wheels I could check. Problem with that is that one (metal) valve cover had welded itself to the valve - which snapped off. The valve inner is still there, and it's holding pressure - I've made up a temporary valve cover for now.

I tried a tyre place who told me that they could fit them - but that the valve and TPMS would be all one part and will need to come from McLaren. In fact, the parts department tell me this is not the case - the valve is a separate part to the TPMS.
However - since I've heard that the TPMS batteries typically die at ~5 years old - and my car is coming up to 6 years old, I've decided I may as well bite the bullet and replace them all now. The parts prices obviously have a hefty McLaren tax applied - but what really surprised me is that the service department want £240 to fit 4 new valves / TPMS. Er - no thanks.

Ascot had them in stock - they will arrive tomorrow, and will be fitted by a local tyre place for ~£50.

While I was on the phone to Ascot, I asked about the cost of soft close - I don't really want want the compromise of losing one of the cables even if it does make a massive price difference. However - I won't be getting it done at Ascot for the price of £2,100 - likely a trip to Thorney is on the cards.

McLarenGuru

72 posts

45 months

Monday 29th June 2020
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davek_964 said:
Noticed yesterday that my suspension feels rock hard - even on Normal setting. To the point where even small bumps in road are bouncing me out of the seat. I suspect it may need checking.

However - first I decided I'd check the tyre pressure to make sure it wasn't too high - which it was on the 3 wheels I could check. Problem with that is that one (metal) valve cover had welded itself to the valve - which snapped off. The valve inner is still there, and it's holding pressure - I've made up a temporary valve cover for now.

I tried a tyre place who told me that they could fit them - but that the valve and TPMS would be all one part and will need to come from McLaren. In fact, the parts department tell me this is not the case - the valve is a separate part to the TPMS.
However - since I've heard that the TPMS batteries typically die at ~5 years old - and my car is coming up to 6 years old, I've decided I may as well bite the bullet and replace them all now. The parts prices obviously have a hefty McLaren tax applied - but what really surprised me is that the service department want £240 to fit 4 new valves / TPMS. Er - no thanks.

Ascot had them in stock - they will arrive tomorrow, and will be fitted by a local tyre place for ~£50.

While I was on the phone to Ascot, I asked about the cost of soft close - I don't really want want the compromise of losing one of the cables even if it does make a massive price difference. However - I won't be getting it done at Ascot for the price of £2,100 - likely a trip to Thorney is on the cards.
WOW, 2,100 to have soft close latches fitted? I am positive if you call other dealers, you would get them for 1,500 fitted inc VAT.

davek_964

Original Poster:

8,796 posts

174 months

Monday 29th June 2020
quotequote all
McLarenGuru said:
WOW, 2,100 to have soft close latches fitted? I am positive if you call other dealers, you would get them for 1,500 fitted inc VAT.
I have called one, and am waiting for a call back with the price. I believe Thorney are £1,400 inc so may just go there.

£2,100 was a joke - as was £240 for fitting 4 valves.

speedick

138 posts

236 months

Monday 29th June 2020
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I fitted new TPMS last month. £120 for a brand new set of 4 pre programmed (from an Ebay seller in Germany). My local tyre bay fitted them all for £50 total (you dont have to take the tyre off the rim, just break the bead one side - so no need to re balance)

The OEM ones are Beru, Part number changes at 2012 model year so need to be careful on build date of your actual car.

All the above worked perfectly (takes 5 wheel rotations for car sensors to lock on to new TPMS). I have heard John T say that the aftermarket TPMS sensor batteries don't last as long .... we'll see. The OEM ones made it to 9 years (!). This being said, methinks I may just fit new ones at each tyre change for how expensive they are.

Understand re DIY fitting soft close. I'm lucky to have a big garage (and a lifetime's experience in the auto industry / building light aircraft as a hobby), even if this were not the case I'd still find a local garage to do the work for me given the (frankly ridiculous) MCL price.

Re the functionality loss - 12m into ownership I'd not actually realized that the manual door release or key release even existed until this project came along, let alone actually used any of them. Post DIY I have key release and strap release on drivers side only - still enough to get by I'd say.

Bottom line - Softclose plus TPMS = (roughly) £3000 from MCL. I've spent £370 and done about 2 hours work for the same stuff

(ebay listing for the TPMS if anybody needs it)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-TPMS-RDKS-sensors-McL...

Edited by speedick on Monday 29th June 16:00

davek_964

Original Poster:

8,796 posts

174 months

Monday 29th June 2020
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Thanks - damn, those TPMS would have been cheaper than I paid McLaren today! Need to do more research next time........ although if I'm honest, I wanted a quick solution given that I have a snapped off valve (albeit on a still fully inflated tyre).

rossyl

1,113 posts

166 months

Monday 29th June 2020
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Hey Dave

Hope you are doing well and enjoying the car...I've just read the whole thing from start to finish.

I didn't expect to be educated about TPMS so much...and now the conversation topic returns wink

It looks like McLaren themselves came good, the car re-paint is most generous.

Looking back at your leaks, headlight issues, etc - I don't want to dredge up negative issues, but my first thought reading it was that it was a common issue that I have previously found - Service Managers can be a mixed bag.

If the Service Manager does not communicate what is wrong with your car adequately to the mechanics, then the issue is unlikely to be resolved.

Using your lights as an example:
Customer says: "lights work, but are pointing at the ground, that is the issue with them"
Service Manager reports: "customer says there's an issue with lights, check lights"
Mechanic: plugs car into computer, no issue. Mechanic turns lights off/on, no issue.
Mechanic says: "Lights are fine"

The Service Managers at Maranello Egham I dealt with, one was wonderful the other lead to me meeting the Dealer Principal as we were both mystified by a situation. It was an issue with communication, with the Service Manager not informing the mechanics what needed doing, and the wrong thing being done.

Sometimes it is worth asking to speak to the mechanics themselves.

Anyway...

Happy that niggles seem sorted, your paintwork is now pristine and you're enjoying the car.

How does it feel now that the 360 has gone, or, had you not driven it in so long that you don't miss it?

Edited by rossyl on Monday 29th June 20:36

davek_964

Original Poster:

8,796 posts

174 months

Monday 29th June 2020
quotequote all
I did actually use the 360 a bit when lockdown eased and I still didn't have the 650 back (enough so that I automatically tried to use a gear stick yesterday in the 650!). I thought that meant I might regret it, but I think it was time for it to go. I absolutely loved that car, but something had changed - I think I just didn't trust it anymore after the top end issue. It was fabulous though and remarkable for a ~20 year old car. And I will always prefer the steering on the 360.

But I do see a long future with the 650.


davek_964

Original Poster:

8,796 posts

174 months

Wednesday 1st July 2020
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I have decided to have the official soft close option fitted. Partly because I don't want to be taking my interior apart to fit the Tesla parts - but mostly because I don't like the thought that I will lose one of the manual cables. I realise I'd still have the other one - and also that I'm unlikely to ever need either - but I just don't like the idea that I'm "losing" some functionality. Bit OCD.

I called two other dealers for prices on Soft Close. New Forest were £1,100 - including free collection and delivery of my car by transporter.
Bell & Colville (the new McLaren place in Guildford) were £1028.56 - they had to shift some stuff around to do it as soon as I wanted, but seemed very keen to get the job. This is handy anyway - I was already wondering if I'd use them for the next service in December (they seem to have a very good reputation for their Lotus work) - and that's even more likely given the outrageous prices Ascot gave me yesterday. They are literally over double the price (B&C are also going to fit the valves / TPMS for less than half the cost Ascot wanted too).
Although they don't always have the best reputation, I've been (mostly) reasonably happy with Ascot. A few disagreements, but these were ultimately resolved in my favour. However - the prices they gave me yesterday were quite frankly ridiculous - and they have now almost certainly lost my business.

Service manager will collect my car on Monday morning (he lives fairly nearby anyway) and drive it to Guildford - useful, since I want a second opinion on my suspension. It won't be back for a few days - or maybe even until Friday - but that makes little difference when WFH.

I think the free paintwork and the PPF are ultimately going to cost me a fortune. The car looks so damn good right now (and should stay that way thanks to the PPF), it seems like anything I need to do to make it even more perfect is easily justified! Fortunately - I can't think of any other frivolous things to waste my money on for it - yet.

One minor issue is that I thought I could hear a bit of air around the drivers window last night at dual carriageway speeds. I know the doors were removed for the paint and I wonder if it's not quite sealing - however, since the locks are about to be replaced I guess this should be sorted out then anyway.

Despite the cost of PPF, valves / TPMS, soft close etc. emptying my bank account (and sadly it needs road tax by start of August) - I am absolutely loving the car right now.

12pack

1,533 posts

167 months

Wednesday 1st July 2020
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Is you car a spider? Perhaps the wind noise is from a misaligned gasket in front of the folding part of the roof?

davek_964

Original Poster:

8,796 posts

174 months

Wednesday 1st July 2020
quotequote all
12pack said:
Is you car a spider? Perhaps the wind noise is from a misaligned gasket in front of the folding part of the roof?
It is, so it might be that. Need to take out for another drive to be sure there is noise then I'll take a look.

justin220

5,331 posts

203 months

Thursday 2nd July 2020
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Looking great! It's great to see you Bonding with the car now after all the initial hiccups

davek_964

Original Poster:

8,796 posts

174 months

Thursday 9th July 2020
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Car was returned from Bell & Colvill today, with new tyre valves, TPMS and soft close fitted. First time I've used anywhere other than Ascot (apart from the alignment at Thorney). It's interesting to compare the difference.

I now know how much wear there is to my brake pads and tyres (obviously I could check some of that myself). I know I have slightly misting on NSF shock (not enough to replace, but needs monitoring). I have slight suspension fluid around NSF accumulator - waiting to see if warranty will replace the accumulators (I know they generally do so will be disappointed if they don't).
Full health check on the car - despite it going in for a couple of specific jobs and not a general service.

The bill was less than I expected - it was what was quoted for soft close and TPMS, but I expected to be charged for them fixing an issue I had with the door being reluctant to open for the first 6 inches. It wasn't that it was lacking support from the strut - more like it was being actively pulled back down.
Ascot looked at this last year and told me it was a dry seal - presumably on the strut - and that they lubricated it. It did seem slightly better but I didn't think it was really fixed and it got much worse last weekend. Turns out that it was actually the door catching on the wheel arch liner - which B&C have adjusted and solved the problem. Obviously it wouldn't have been great cost, but very happy it was zero.

There was a minor hiccup - on demonstrating the soft close on the driver side, it..... didn't! Seems to be working fine on passenger side, but often doesn't on driver side - clearly needs adjusting slightly. The car was delivered back to me by the service manager and I suspect something shifted slightly on the journey - it behaves as if the anti-trap feature is triggering.
Very apologetic, and it will be sorted next week - we'll wait and see if the warranty is paying for accumulators before deciding when it goes in. It does show that customer service counts though - I am 100% sure it was simply bad luck, and that it will get sorted next week - whereas if it had happened at a different dealer, I think I would have been less forgiving.

Car will definitely be going back to B&C for its service in December.

And if I can be bothered to get up early enough, will be on a jaunt with a few other McLarens this weekend.

krisdelta

4,566 posts

200 months

Friday 10th July 2020
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Thanks for the update - it's a lovely car, the weather is looking fine so would be rude not to get the car out! Enjoy smile

Bispal

1,603 posts

150 months

Friday 10th July 2020
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davek_964 said:
Car was returned from Bell & Colvill today, with new tyre valves, TPMS and soft close fitted. First time I've used anywhere other than Ascot (apart from the alignment at Thorney). It's interesting to compare the difference.

I now know how much wear there is to my brake pads and tyres (obviously I could check some of that myself). I know I have slightly misting on NSF shock (not enough to replace, but needs monitoring). I have slight suspension fluid around NSF accumulator - waiting to see if warranty will replace the accumulators (I know they generally do so will be disappointed if they don't).
Full health check on the car - despite it going in for a couple of specific jobs and not a general service.

The bill was less than I expected - it was what was quoted for soft close and TPMS, but I expected to be charged for them fixing an issue I had with the door being reluctant to open for the first 6 inches. It wasn't that it was lacking support from the strut - more like it was being actively pulled back down.
Ascot looked at this last year and told me it was a dry seal - presumably on the strut - and that they lubricated it. It did seem slightly better but I didn't think it was really fixed and it got much worse last weekend. Turns out that it was actually the door catching on the wheel arch liner - which B&C have adjusted and solved the problem. Obviously it wouldn't have been great cost, but very happy it was zero.

There was a minor hiccup - on demonstrating the soft close on the driver side, it..... didn't! Seems to be working fine on passenger side, but often doesn't on driver side - clearly needs adjusting slightly. The car was delivered back to me by the service manager and I suspect something shifted slightly on the journey - it behaves as if the anti-trap feature is triggering.
Very apologetic, and it will be sorted next week - we'll wait and see if the warranty is paying for accumulators before deciding when it goes in. It does show that customer service counts though - I am 100% sure it was simply bad luck, and that it will get sorted next week - whereas if it had happened at a different dealer, I think I would have been less forgiving.

Car will definitely be going back to B&C for its service in December.

And if I can be bothered to get up early enough, will be on a jaunt with a few other McLarens this weekend.
I use B&C for my 675LT & 430CUP. They are fabulous, I can't fault them one bit. You will be very happy with them. The hard suspension issue is probably accumulators. If changing settings from normal // sport / track makes no difference then 99% certain accumulators. They are almost always covered under warranty.


Smoothound

148 posts

45 months

Friday 10th July 2020
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Bispal said:
I use B&C for my 675LT & 430CUP. They are fabulous, I can't fault them one bit. You will be very happy with them. The hard suspension issue is probably accumulators. If changing settings from normal // sport / track makes no difference then 99% certain accumulators. They are almost always covered under warranty.
I'm sure I watched a video or read something last couple of days about the shock/accumulator issues often not actually being the accumulators but the shocks and the dealers often change the wrong bit? Think it was one of the Thorney videos?

davek_964

Original Poster:

8,796 posts

174 months

Monday 13th July 2020
quotequote all
Smoothound said:
I'm sure I watched a video or read something last couple of days about the shock/accumulator issues often not actually being the accumulators but the shocks and the dealers often change the wrong bit? Think it was one of the Thorney videos?
Yes, I think I've seen that video. However - after the weekend, I'm fairly sure my suspension is working normally.....

I reduced tyre pressure slightly - I'm now running 2psi below the recommended pressures (so I'm in 27 front / 30 rear). I intended to only drop it 1psi at first but got a bit carried away letting pressure out of the first tyre - so figured I'd just match them up and try it.
In town at ~30mph, it still feels very hard when it hits bumps - it seems to upset the whole car sometimes. But the road surface does seem to be very poor so perhaps I'm expecting too much.
Reducing the tyre pressure slightly has made the difference between normal / track much more noticeable - it's very obvious now that my suspension is working, and is definitely changing when I change setting.

Out of town - on normal / sport - the car feels fine. The suspension basically works at speed and is pretty crap on bumpy town roads at slow speed. I guess I could start driving around town at 60mph!

It makes me question whether I really need the accumulators changed - however, since I was told there was a slight weep, it seems that they should be done anyway. Assuming that the warranty company approve it.

I did get up early on Sunday morning, so the suspension got a good workout with about a dozen McLarens. Fabulous drive, and it's times like that you realise just how good the car is. It was early, so very little traffic and it really allows you to see how capable the car is. I've mentioned before that I'd prefer a slightly quicker turn in, but I didn't miss that on Sunday, and the cornering was astoundingly good. It really does corner like it's on rails - and despite it being a very quick run - surprising how much fun you can have at 60mph wink - it still felt like the car would have been happy cornering an awful lot faster most of the time.

PPF seems to have done its job - I did leave a pretty big gap to the car in front but still expected to pick up a chip or two in the PPF but couldn't find any when I was cleaning the bugs off yesterday.

I seem to have returned very quickly to using the car too much - even though it's still a bit limited on where you can go anyway. It covered around 200 miles yesterday, and seems to need filling up at least once a week - despite the fact that I'm WFH. I intend to get another car that I can use some of the time (since I sold the Ferrari) - however, since 90% of my current journeys seem to be entirely unnecessary and basically just an excuse to use the 650 - I'm not sure buying anything else right now will actually make any difference!

Kyodo

727 posts

123 months

Monday 13th July 2020
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Buying another car Dave? Get a 360 :-)

SSO

1,389 posts

190 months

Monday 13th July 2020
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I just posted an update on our site about using my 650S Spider as a daily driver for the last 5 years. It's been terrific.

WilliamWaiver

439 posts

44 months

Monday 13th July 2020
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Dare I say it but the 650S was what the 12C was meant to be.
At least McLaren learnt from the fumbled 12C launch and dramatically improved the car with the 650S which along with the 675LT seems to be the best built and most reliable McLaren built to date.

It seems to me that new launch models are pushed out too early by sales and marketing dept pressurising production with insufficient QC.

I wouldn't want to be the 1st owner at list price of any new model
I think I would buy a nearly new car after that model has been produced for a couple of years and most niggles and issues are ironed out

650spider

1,476 posts

170 months

Monday 13th July 2020
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SSO said:
I just posted an update on our site about using my 650S Spider as a daily driver for the last 5 years. It's been terrific.
Another great write up on your site.

Your experience pretty much mirrors my 650 spider ownership.

It is just an all round fantastic car and a real sweet spot for McLaren...it does seems as though more people are finally catching on.

It speaks volumes that with your current and previous amazing car history that its the longest serving daily driver and you plan to keep it as such for the next 'x' amount of years.