Mclaren depreciation
Discussion
Nano2nd said:
well theres now a 12C on the facebook supercars for sale group, at £65k which must be a new record low surely?
As we enter Autumn and Winter I suspect these prices will soften further perhaps to £55k with high miles and poor spec before the envitable Spring Summer rise. All bets are off if we enter a recession next year. It`s a weapon full stop and ridiculously good value when compared to its apparent rivals...
I think until our inept politicians sort themselves out (which I don`t see happening) then our economy will continue to stagnate (although the wider world is in a precarious situation so there are many other influences at work) then these and all premium cars will become harder and harder to sell, so where will the price eventually settle...£30k??
As a 12c owner, I`m not trying to talk the value down but trying to be realistic...its happened before with some apparently desirable Ferrari`s falling to this sort of value...and it will happen again.
I think until our inept politicians sort themselves out (which I don`t see happening) then our economy will continue to stagnate (although the wider world is in a precarious situation so there are many other influences at work) then these and all premium cars will become harder and harder to sell, so where will the price eventually settle...£30k??
As a 12c owner, I`m not trying to talk the value down but trying to be realistic...its happened before with some apparently desirable Ferrari`s falling to this sort of value...and it will happen again.
Bought a 2016 650 spider 11 months ago from McBristol, Car was advertised at £149,995 one of the most expensive but after looking at many 650 spiders over a period of 8 months this was the one i decided on as it had a great options spec, 6k miles, in exceptional condition. The car was approved and qualified by Mclaren. My thinking on buying a high spec car in a great colour elite paint was it would be easier to sell when the time came.
Over the last 11 months of ownership i have used it very little only putting around 2k miles on it. Its been to McBristol for service, four new tyres and steering geometry set up, extended Mclaren warranty.
Let me say at this point Mclaren Bristol have been absolutely fantastic every time i have used them or been to visit their showroom and would highly recommend them to anyone. I will continue to use them, they are not responsible for the depreciation with these cars.
Back on topic, decided that as i was not getting time to use the car it was decision time as to whether to keep the car or cut my losses and p/ex it back to Mcbristol for a vehicle i could get more use out of. At this point i thought that as the car was as it was when i bought it, i would recoup a reasonable amount back for it in p/ex. Contacted the dealer who confirmed they would be happy to have the car back as they did not have a 650 spider and new/ liked the spec of the car. So far so good until the max p/ex allowance was given to me.
£95,000. OUCH!!!
This car was in this dealership 11 months ago for £149,995 is now only worth £95,000 to them now.
As i say this is no fault of McBristol but it is a heads up to those who are wondering what their Mclaren is worth at the moment. I never bought my car to make money and was fully expecting to lose money on it, only not so fast. What this exercise has given me is the knowledge that even the lower mileage high spec examples will lose lots of money very quickly even second hand 2 1/2 year old cars.
Now for the silver lining. As my car has shed so much of its value, i will be keeping it for the foreseeable future as further depreciation does not bother me.
These are fantastic cars, a pleasure to drive and i now look forward to getting much more use out of it, putting some miles on it, enjoying it without the worry of keeping the miles low to keep some residual value. Happy Driving.
Ps when discussing values with reference to lowest they are likely to fall, i was told that they did not think 12c would drop below 90k but are now bidding less than 50k on good examples. Who knows where they will end up.
Over the last 11 months of ownership i have used it very little only putting around 2k miles on it. Its been to McBristol for service, four new tyres and steering geometry set up, extended Mclaren warranty.
Let me say at this point Mclaren Bristol have been absolutely fantastic every time i have used them or been to visit their showroom and would highly recommend them to anyone. I will continue to use them, they are not responsible for the depreciation with these cars.
Back on topic, decided that as i was not getting time to use the car it was decision time as to whether to keep the car or cut my losses and p/ex it back to Mcbristol for a vehicle i could get more use out of. At this point i thought that as the car was as it was when i bought it, i would recoup a reasonable amount back for it in p/ex. Contacted the dealer who confirmed they would be happy to have the car back as they did not have a 650 spider and new/ liked the spec of the car. So far so good until the max p/ex allowance was given to me.
£95,000. OUCH!!!
This car was in this dealership 11 months ago for £149,995 is now only worth £95,000 to them now.
As i say this is no fault of McBristol but it is a heads up to those who are wondering what their Mclaren is worth at the moment. I never bought my car to make money and was fully expecting to lose money on it, only not so fast. What this exercise has given me is the knowledge that even the lower mileage high spec examples will lose lots of money very quickly even second hand 2 1/2 year old cars.
Now for the silver lining. As my car has shed so much of its value, i will be keeping it for the foreseeable future as further depreciation does not bother me.
These are fantastic cars, a pleasure to drive and i now look forward to getting much more use out of it, putting some miles on it, enjoying it without the worry of keeping the miles low to keep some residual value. Happy Driving.
Ps when discussing values with reference to lowest they are likely to fall, i was told that they did not think 12c would drop below 90k but are now bidding less than 50k on good examples. Who knows where they will end up.
GRD 8 said:
Bought a 2016 650 spider 11 months ago from McBristol, Car was advertised at £149,995 one of the most expensive but after looking at many 650 spiders over a period of 8 months this was the one i decided on as it had a great options spec, 6k miles, in exceptional condition. The car was approved and qualified by Mclaren. My thinking on buying a high spec car in a great colour elite paint was it would be easier to sell when the time came.
Over the last 11 months of ownership i have used it very little only putting around 2k miles on it. Its been to McBristol for service, four new tyres and steering geometry set up, extended Mclaren warranty.
Let me say at this point Mclaren Bristol have been absolutely fantastic every time i have used them or been to visit their showroom and would highly recommend them to anyone. I will continue to use them, they are not responsible for the depreciation with these cars.
Back on topic, decided that as i was not getting time to use the car it was decision time as to whether to keep the car or cut my losses and p/ex it back to Mcbristol for a vehicle i could get more use out of. At this point i thought that as the car was as it was when i bought it, i would recoup a reasonable amount back for it in p/ex. Contacted the dealer who confirmed they would be happy to have the car back as they did not have a 650 spider and new/ liked the spec of the car. So far so good until the max p/ex allowance was given to me.
£95,000. OUCH!!!
This car was in this dealership 11 months ago for £149,995 is now only worth £95,000 to them now.
As i say this is no fault of McBristol but it is a heads up to those who are wondering what their Mclaren is worth at the moment. I never bought my car to make money and was fully expecting to lose money on it, only not so fast. What this exercise has given me is the knowledge that even the lower mileage high spec examples will lose lots of money very quickly even second hand 2 1/2 year old cars.
Now for the silver lining. As my car has shed so much of its value, i will be keeping it for the foreseeable future as further depreciation does not bother me.
These are fantastic cars, a pleasure to drive and i now look forward to getting much more use out of it, putting some miles on it, enjoying it without the worry of keeping the miles low to keep some residual value. Happy Driving.
Ps when discussing values with reference to lowest they are likely to fall, i was told that they did not think 12c would drop below 90k but are now bidding less than 50k on good examples. Who knows where they will end up.
Wow that is eye watering depreciation! And thats not even on buying new. Good on you for keeping your chin up and just planning to get max enjoyment from the car going forwards though.Over the last 11 months of ownership i have used it very little only putting around 2k miles on it. Its been to McBristol for service, four new tyres and steering geometry set up, extended Mclaren warranty.
Let me say at this point Mclaren Bristol have been absolutely fantastic every time i have used them or been to visit their showroom and would highly recommend them to anyone. I will continue to use them, they are not responsible for the depreciation with these cars.
Back on topic, decided that as i was not getting time to use the car it was decision time as to whether to keep the car or cut my losses and p/ex it back to Mcbristol for a vehicle i could get more use out of. At this point i thought that as the car was as it was when i bought it, i would recoup a reasonable amount back for it in p/ex. Contacted the dealer who confirmed they would be happy to have the car back as they did not have a 650 spider and new/ liked the spec of the car. So far so good until the max p/ex allowance was given to me.
£95,000. OUCH!!!
This car was in this dealership 11 months ago for £149,995 is now only worth £95,000 to them now.
As i say this is no fault of McBristol but it is a heads up to those who are wondering what their Mclaren is worth at the moment. I never bought my car to make money and was fully expecting to lose money on it, only not so fast. What this exercise has given me is the knowledge that even the lower mileage high spec examples will lose lots of money very quickly even second hand 2 1/2 year old cars.
Now for the silver lining. As my car has shed so much of its value, i will be keeping it for the foreseeable future as further depreciation does not bother me.
These are fantastic cars, a pleasure to drive and i now look forward to getting much more use out of it, putting some miles on it, enjoying it without the worry of keeping the miles low to keep some residual value. Happy Driving.
Ps when discussing values with reference to lowest they are likely to fall, i was told that they did not think 12c would drop below 90k but are now bidding less than 50k on good examples. Who knows where they will end up.
GRD 8 said:
Bought a 2016 650 spider 11 months ago from McBristol, Car was advertised at £149,995 one of the most expensive but after looking at many 650 spiders over a period of 8 months this was the one i decided on as it had a great options spec, 6k miles, in exceptional condition. The car was approved and qualified by Mclaren. My thinking on buying a high spec car in a great colour elite paint was it would be easier to sell when the time came.
Over the last 11 months of ownership i have used it very little only putting around 2k miles on it. Its been to McBristol for service, four new tyres and steering geometry set up, extended Mclaren warranty.
Let me say at this point Mclaren Bristol have been absolutely fantastic every time i have used them or been to visit their showroom and would highly recommend them to anyone. I will continue to use them, they are not responsible for the depreciation with these cars.
Back on topic, decided that as i was not getting time to use the car it was decision time as to whether to keep the car or cut my losses and p/ex it back to Mcbristol for a vehicle i could get more use out of. At this point i thought that as the car was as it was when i bought it, i would recoup a reasonable amount back for it in p/ex. Contacted the dealer who confirmed they would be happy to have the car back as they did not have a 650 spider and new/ liked the spec of the car. So far so good until the max p/ex allowance was given to me.
£95,000. OUCH!!!
This car was in this dealership 11 months ago for £149,995 is now only worth £95,000 to them now.
As i say this is no fault of McBristol but it is a heads up to those who are wondering what their Mclaren is worth at the moment. I never bought my car to make money and was fully expecting to lose money on it, only not so fast. What this exercise has given me is the knowledge that even the lower mileage high spec examples will lose lots of money very quickly even second hand 2 1/2 year old cars.
Now for the silver lining. As my car has shed so much of its value, i will be keeping it for the foreseeable future as further depreciation does not bother me.
These are fantastic cars, a pleasure to drive and i now look forward to getting much more use out of it, putting some miles on it, enjoying it without the worry of keeping the miles low to keep some residual value. Happy Driving.
Ps when discussing values with reference to lowest they are likely to fall, i was told that they did not think 12c would drop below 90k but are now bidding less than 50k on good examples. Who knows where they will end up.
Buying retail & selling trade is always gonna hurt, especially in 11 months!Over the last 11 months of ownership i have used it very little only putting around 2k miles on it. Its been to McBristol for service, four new tyres and steering geometry set up, extended Mclaren warranty.
Let me say at this point Mclaren Bristol have been absolutely fantastic every time i have used them or been to visit their showroom and would highly recommend them to anyone. I will continue to use them, they are not responsible for the depreciation with these cars.
Back on topic, decided that as i was not getting time to use the car it was decision time as to whether to keep the car or cut my losses and p/ex it back to Mcbristol for a vehicle i could get more use out of. At this point i thought that as the car was as it was when i bought it, i would recoup a reasonable amount back for it in p/ex. Contacted the dealer who confirmed they would be happy to have the car back as they did not have a 650 spider and new/ liked the spec of the car. So far so good until the max p/ex allowance was given to me.
£95,000. OUCH!!!
This car was in this dealership 11 months ago for £149,995 is now only worth £95,000 to them now.
As i say this is no fault of McBristol but it is a heads up to those who are wondering what their Mclaren is worth at the moment. I never bought my car to make money and was fully expecting to lose money on it, only not so fast. What this exercise has given me is the knowledge that even the lower mileage high spec examples will lose lots of money very quickly even second hand 2 1/2 year old cars.
Now for the silver lining. As my car has shed so much of its value, i will be keeping it for the foreseeable future as further depreciation does not bother me.
These are fantastic cars, a pleasure to drive and i now look forward to getting much more use out of it, putting some miles on it, enjoying it without the worry of keeping the miles low to keep some residual value. Happy Driving.
Ps when discussing values with reference to lowest they are likely to fall, i was told that they did not think 12c would drop below 90k but are now bidding less than 50k on good examples. Who knows where they will end up.
If you'd have bought a nice spec 2016 488gtb 11 months ago from a Ferrari dealer it would have cost 180k minimum, that same dealer would bid 140k max today!!
Sure, not as bad as you but not too much difference really...
Yes i agree. Its the same with many manufacturers, just the current climate.
The up side is that once the value of the cars have fallen they gain interest from a wider audience and may then stabilise if demand increases in the lower price bracket. Great cars for the money, in fact great cars period.
It will be interesting to see once the early 12c models become older than ten years and no more extended warranty whether the indies will develop into the Mclaren repair market. I believe this will also help the early car prices to stabilise.
The up side is that once the value of the cars have fallen they gain interest from a wider audience and may then stabilise if demand increases in the lower price bracket. Great cars for the money, in fact great cars period.
It will be interesting to see once the early 12c models become older than ten years and no more extended warranty whether the indies will develop into the Mclaren repair market. I believe this will also help the early car prices to stabilise.
GRD 8 said:
The up side is that once the value of the cars have fallen they gain interest from a wider audience and may then stabilise if demand increases in the lower price bracket. Great cars for the money, in fact great cars period.
It will be interesting to see once the early 12c models become older than ten years and no more extended warranty whether the indies will develop into the Mclaren repair market. I believe this will also help the early car prices to stabilise.
The trouble will be the cost of maintaining older but very complicated cars - it will still be eye watering.It will be interesting to see once the early 12c models become older than ten years and no more extended warranty whether the indies will develop into the Mclaren repair market. I believe this will also help the early car prices to stabilise.
Looking back cars weren’t like that.
For example an early Diablo - no ABS, no traction control, no airbags, no power steering. There’s just a lot less to go wrong.
Ferruccio said:
The trouble will be the cost of maintaining older but very complicated cars - it will still be eye watering.
Looking back cars weren’t like that.
For example an early Diablo - no ABS, no traction control, no airbags, no power steering. There’s just a lot less to go wrong.
Not sure it's that simple. These modern cars are built way better & in much bigger numbers. An old Pagoda is way harder & costlier to repair than say a 90's Merc sl, & they have 5hit loads of electronics & computers etc...Looking back cars weren’t like that.
For example an early Diablo - no ABS, no traction control, no airbags, no power steering. There’s just a lot less to go wrong.
Trading in with a dealer normally makes your eyes water. I bought an approved used 330d bmw with masses of hidden extras that the dealer had not realised. Power pack, big brakes etc. £27k. Within 6 months I went to trade it against a Range Rover, the dealer offered me 16k for it. I told them where to poke it and got £21k from a bmw specialist (so would have got more retail potentially).
On collection of the Rangie the dealer admitted that the sales manager wanted the BMW for his wife....they need to build profits in to the trade in plus cover their warranty and prep costs.
On collection of the Rangie the dealer admitted that the sales manager wanted the BMW for his wife....they need to build profits in to the trade in plus cover their warranty and prep costs.
Ferruccio said:
The trouble will be the cost of maintaining older but very complicated cars - it will still be eye watering.
Looking back cars weren’t like that.
For example an early Diablo - no ABS, no traction control, no airbags, no power steering. There’s just a lot less to go wrong.
These cars are very complicated but as time goes on the technology will be better understood. It will take some major investment by indies if they are going to be competent in these cars, but its been done with other brands like Ferrari. Its all according to demand i suppose and when the testing technology will be released by mclaren.Looking back cars weren’t like that.
For example an early Diablo - no ABS, no traction control, no airbags, no power steering. There’s just a lot less to go wrong.
A combination of bid/offer spread (dealer margin) and the overall market heading south means ownership of these types of car over the last 12 months is going to be excessively expensive. The key to it all (and what I believe as a recent purchaser) is use your car A LOT - it is going to be expensive so the way to reduce the cost per (s)mile is to maximise the miles! Having watched loved ones depart early, it is easy to see value in spending cash on good times!
DB77 said:
A combination of bid/offer spread (dealer margin) and the overall market heading south means ownership of these types of car over the last 12 months is going to be excessively expensive. The key to it all (and what I believe as a recent purchaser) is use your car A LOT - it is going to be expensive so the way to reduce the cost per (s)mile is to maximise the miles! Having watched loved ones depart early, it is easy to see value in spending cash on good times!
Yep, that’s my view. Covered 9K miles in the 720 since April 2019.[quote=DB77]A combination of bid/offer spread (dealer margin) and the overall market heading south means ownership of these types of car over the last 12 months is going to be excessively expensive. The key to it all (and what I believe as a recent purchaser) is use your car A LOT - it is going to be expensive so the way to reduce the cost per (s)mile is to maximise the miles! Having watched loved ones depart early, it is easy to see value in spending cash on good times
My X3 is worth considerably less that its GFV now even with 12 months to go... I know PCP isn't popular on PH but i'm bloody glad i didn't buy it cash!Ferruccio said:
The trouble will be the cost of maintaining older but very complicated cars - it will still be eye watering.
Looking back cars weren’t like that.
For example an early Diablo - no ABS, no traction control, no airbags, no power steering. There’s just a lot less to go wrong.
I had a Diablo back in 1994 and it was infuriating! A whole series of trivial faults eg I follishly drove it at night once and the heater fan stopped working and within 10 seconds I could not see a thing it was totally misted up. But it would do 95mph in second gear ...Looking back cars weren’t like that.
For example an early Diablo - no ABS, no traction control, no airbags, no power steering. There’s just a lot less to go wrong.
As someone looking , with interest , from the outside inwards , McLaren depreciation appears to me to be primarily due to :
1) Perceived ( or actual -- i don't know as I don't have any direct experience , but I do know it is one reason i am still sitting on the sidelines ) reliability issues
2) Dealer service
Sure the
A) Warranty costs
B) Oversupply issues
also have a part to play , but as a potential long-term owner these would fade into relative insignificance compared to (1) and (2) above .
A constantly breaking down car or one with many minor niggles , and an inattentive dealer are a nightmare --- been there and done that with other marques , and would not choose to go there willingly , however wonderful the car's performance is . Its bearable for short-term ownership , but not sustainable for long-term ownership
We go in knowing that almost all supercars will depreciate , but any car that suffers a sustained and unduly high rate of depreciation compared to its direct rivals must have solid underlying reasons for this .
(A) and (B) are not solid enough reasons to explain McLaren's current rate of depreciation .
(1) and (2) are , and happily it is within McLaren's gift to do something about these 2 factors .
Also depreciation doesn't kick in until you sell .
And to really appreciate any car , you have to keep it for a good while .
I often smile to myself quietly when I read of an owner proudly saying that he has driven his car XXXX number of miles within the last 4 months .
So what ?
Have you been sitting at 20 mph in Mayfair or at 79 mph on the M3 ?
Its quality mileage that counts , not the absolute mileage covered .
Far greater fun , and more relevant experience is gained , through a single carefully chosen drive once a month , than the oft-publicized PH badge of honour of having driven a car XXXX miles as a daily driver .
And if you keep any car a good while ( decade ++) , who cares about depreciation ?
You think through your choice of car carefully beforehand , and write off the purchase price in your mind before deciding to buy the car .
After a decade or two , its either a bona fide classic and made you tons , or its old and worthless , but you've had great fun in the meantime ....
On the other hand , if you must have the latest , greatest and shiniest , then i do appreciate that this line of thinking might not be for you ...
Maybe that's one of the unfortunate side-effects of PCP deals - as it forces you ( in reality , as you have already paid in advance for XXXX mile /year ) to use your car in maybe less than ideal circumstances / for less than perfect drives ........ drives which may not allow you to tap into the innermost aspects of a supercar .
The counter argument is that PCP deals allow one to own a car which might not otherwise be on the radar , and that in itself is a strong enough argument in favour of PCPs , for all of us on PH , who are here for the simple reason that we are mightily interested in cars .
1) Perceived ( or actual -- i don't know as I don't have any direct experience , but I do know it is one reason i am still sitting on the sidelines ) reliability issues
2) Dealer service
Sure the
A) Warranty costs
B) Oversupply issues
also have a part to play , but as a potential long-term owner these would fade into relative insignificance compared to (1) and (2) above .
A constantly breaking down car or one with many minor niggles , and an inattentive dealer are a nightmare --- been there and done that with other marques , and would not choose to go there willingly , however wonderful the car's performance is . Its bearable for short-term ownership , but not sustainable for long-term ownership
We go in knowing that almost all supercars will depreciate , but any car that suffers a sustained and unduly high rate of depreciation compared to its direct rivals must have solid underlying reasons for this .
(A) and (B) are not solid enough reasons to explain McLaren's current rate of depreciation .
(1) and (2) are , and happily it is within McLaren's gift to do something about these 2 factors .
Also depreciation doesn't kick in until you sell .
And to really appreciate any car , you have to keep it for a good while .
I often smile to myself quietly when I read of an owner proudly saying that he has driven his car XXXX number of miles within the last 4 months .
So what ?
Have you been sitting at 20 mph in Mayfair or at 79 mph on the M3 ?
Its quality mileage that counts , not the absolute mileage covered .
Far greater fun , and more relevant experience is gained , through a single carefully chosen drive once a month , than the oft-publicized PH badge of honour of having driven a car XXXX miles as a daily driver .
And if you keep any car a good while ( decade ++) , who cares about depreciation ?
You think through your choice of car carefully beforehand , and write off the purchase price in your mind before deciding to buy the car .
After a decade or two , its either a bona fide classic and made you tons , or its old and worthless , but you've had great fun in the meantime ....
On the other hand , if you must have the latest , greatest and shiniest , then i do appreciate that this line of thinking might not be for you ...
Maybe that's one of the unfortunate side-effects of PCP deals - as it forces you ( in reality , as you have already paid in advance for XXXX mile /year ) to use your car in maybe less than ideal circumstances / for less than perfect drives ........ drives which may not allow you to tap into the innermost aspects of a supercar .
The counter argument is that PCP deals allow one to own a car which might not otherwise be on the radar , and that in itself is a strong enough argument in favour of PCPs , for all of us on PH , who are here for the simple reason that we are mightily interested in cars .
Edited by carspath on Saturday 29th August 17:09
carspath said:
As someone looking , with interest , from the outside inwards , McLaren depreciation appears to me to be primarily due to :
1) Perceived ( or actual -- i don't know as I don't have any direct experience , but I do know it is one reason i am still sitting on the sidelines ) reliability issues
2) Dealer service
1/ From my own experience, mine has been the single most reliable car I've ever owned. Over 2 years from new, and not a single fault or warning light etc.1) Perceived ( or actual -- i don't know as I don't have any direct experience , but I do know it is one reason i am still sitting on the sidelines ) reliability issues
2) Dealer service
2/ Pick you dealer. A few are indeed terrible. Mine has been great (Hatfield).
Agree about depreciation, but supply has now dried up and 720S prices are now stable. And to be fair, other cars (eg 488) have suffered similarly.
LotusJas said:
Agree about depreciation, but supply has now dried up and 720S prices are now stable. And to be fair, other cars (eg 488) have suffered similarly.
A 2016 488 with £20k of options would have been £200k new, now selling c£155k. Not bad for a 4 year old car. I wasn’t aware 720’s were doing quite so well?garystoybox said:
A 2016 488 with £20k of options would have been £200k new, now selling c£155k. Not bad for a 4 year old car. I wasn’t aware 720’s were doing quite so well?
Depends if you paid list for the McLaren.If you did your a mug but if you got £50k off then the equation becomes totally different.
Still might not be in favour of the mac but close enough for a vastly superior car IMHO and thats coming from a ferrari owner
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