The dreaded depreciation
Discussion
355spiderguy said:
thecook101 said:
It's truly lovely that you have owned so many cars for so long - you should list them in your garage.
You miss my point though. Nothing against McLarens or any other marque, just tired of hearing "but they all do that" whenever Mac depreciation or issues are mentioned. It's not the same across the board.
Its never crossed my mind to look what someone has in their 'garage' part, so quite happy leaving mines blank.You miss my point though. Nothing against McLarens or any other marque, just tired of hearing "but they all do that" whenever Mac depreciation or issues are mentioned. It's not the same across the board.
I see your point very clearly.
You base depreciation on an older Ferrari that at around 14 years old has settled to a 'classic' status, and in your head you have a clear idea of how much it is worth...try calling a few Ferrari MD's or Ferrari specialists and ask for trade in value or outright bid...best sit down if you do, as it shall not start with an 8, maybe not even a 7.
I know this as i went through it last year on a extremely rare Ferrari in the right colours etc.
The car guys took a £70k hit in less than 12 months on a very lovely 488 in order to be out before the herd wants out, there is the rather nice white performante spider that is currently being offered around £110k less than list and around £45k less than 1st advertised 4 months ago. A Mercedes GTR follows a similar trend.
It is very similar across the board.
I was in Ferrari ownership when you could get a 355 for late £20's, 360 in the £30's 430 in high £40's and 'F1 Joe' was struggling to hawk his blue RHD 360CS for less than £60k...doubt it will ever get as bad as that again but who knows?
If a 12c spider was purchased today at £85k or a 650 spider at £99k, the values in a year would most likely be relative to what your 430 may be worth now and then next year...that is trade bid or p/x offer...not a 'what others are advertised at' or 'what's in your head' value.
No doubt the warranty extension cost shall be thrown up but as i said earlier i view that as the price to ride and as someone whom just paid £3700 for it last Monday, i have no concerns whatsoever about that cost.
For other Marque owners, why not just enjoy what you have instead of being so negative about a marque you don't have?
I still love Ferraris; i doubt i shall ever have another but it wouldn't cross my mind to get upset on a forum about them...
My comment was simply that it is not true to say that all cars have performed similarly as was insinuated by a subsequent poster, and since I know the 360/430 market quite well I used them as an example of this. I'm not sure why you would think I'm upset - apologies if I offended with my use of the word bulls
t (oops I did it again). And again, I have nothing against other marques (I'm a petrolhead in general - see my garage for quite a varied selection of cars) and I really like the 720S (in fact I asked MAC720S if I could get a ride in his if/when we meet up - although he didn't respond) and would love a P1.
thecook101 said:
Certainly not upset, and was not referring to my car specifically - the poster above my original post made a comparison to 430 and 360 depreciation. No need to be patronising, I'm fully aware of what my 430 specifically will cost me in depreciation - I bought it for £72k five years ago and it now has over 30k miles on it so it's worth zero. If you read the thread the OP was questioning the advice given in 2016 that a used 12C offered some investment potential, only for it to lose a further £45k of it's already depreciated value over the next three years.
My comment was simply that it is not true to say that all cars have performed similarly as was insinuated by a subsequent poster, and since I know the 360/430 market quite well I used them as an example of this. I'm not sure why you would think I'm upset - apologies if I offended with my use of the word bullst (oops I did it again).
And again, I have nothing against other marques (I'm a petrolhead in general - see my garage for quite a varied selection of cars) and I really like the 720S (in fact I asked MAC720S if I could get a ride in his if/when we meet up - although he didn't respond) and would love a P1.
I think most have an idea in their head what their car is 'worth'...but even for the really great stuff you find that the reality may be slightly different.My comment was simply that it is not true to say that all cars have performed similarly as was insinuated by a subsequent poster, and since I know the 360/430 market quite well I used them as an example of this. I'm not sure why you would think I'm upset - apologies if I offended with my use of the word bulls
t (oops I did it again). And again, I have nothing against other marques (I'm a petrolhead in general - see my garage for quite a varied selection of cars) and I really like the 720S (in fact I asked MAC720S if I could get a ride in his if/when we meet up - although he didn't respond) and would love a P1.
After what seemed like forever having a constant stream of nice Porsches and then latterly Ferraris, i decided i was squandering too much hard earned on maintenance, insurance, fuel etc on a 3rd or 4th car that i hardly found the time to use, so decided enough was enough and sell this time last year.
I went nearly 6 months with having to make do with the daily driver AMG's ( sob! ) all pleased with myself for not having a daft car burning a hole on my pocket.
Then a good friend had a life changing stroke which made me realise that i am extremely fortunate to be in good health and in the position to buy and enjoy daft cars, and that maybe life is a tad too short to worry about saving a few bucks by not having something that gives you that wee bit of pleasure.
Broke my own habits and checked your garage out ....you do indeed appear to have the same reasoning as myself and other petrolheads.
All supercars lose money...its an expensive hobby.
Some lose more than others. Its no big deal.
Buy what makes you feel happy driving and looking at, as long as you are comfortable at the figures. If your choice depreciates slower than others...happy days.
At some point the depreciation slows. My wives AMG 'tank' shed £40k in the 10 months from new to when we bought it...since then it has levelled off nicely.
Its not just supercars that can lose that kind if cash in a year.
355spiderguy said:
Then a good friend had a life changing stroke which made me realise that i am extremely fortunate to be in good health and in the position to buy and enjoy daft cars, and that maybe life is a tad too short to worry about saving a few bucks by not having something that gives you that wee bit of pleasure.
This ^I had a very close friend suddenly die of cancer 3 years ago, amongst other things. It was an eye-opener that changed my perspective. I ordered my 720S after that.
A university classmate died suddenly of cancer a week ago.
Life can be short.
franki68 said:
What 911 is that ? I have had a few and the most I have lost in a 12 month period was around 8k.
Hi, there is a supercars for sale page on Facebook, a few pop up from time to time.Yesterday a 2 year old GTS with 12k miles listed at £90k Ono ,
List price new was £130k.....£1,600 a month for 2 years.
thecook101 said:
Here we go again, “They all do that sir.”
Bullst. If you bought a 430 or 360 in 2016 you’d likely get over 80% of your money back today, and you’d unlikely have paid 3-5 grand a year for a warranty.
Hello Bulls
t. If you bought a 430 or 360 in 2016 you’d likely get over 80% of your money back today, and you’d unlikely have paid 3-5 grand a year for a warranty. 
If I may quote myself..... "They is many a v8 Ferrari owner who lost 20k a year. (Both the 360 and 430 dropped £60k in their first four years). "
I didn't imply (or mean to imply) that buyers of F430 and 360s lost £40k since 2016, but instead these cars did lose as much as £60k in their first four years of ownership.
There is no doubt Mclaren took a pasting from new, but as 2nd hand buys there are starting to narrow the gap (in terms of cost of ownership) to other supercars. Especially as normal levels of deprecation are returning to Ferrari, Lambo and Porsche.
I bought a 12c in 2016, sold it a year later for same price as I bought it for, then had a 650s, sold for £25k less (2 years)
3 years of McLaren ownership ( inc. deprecation, warranties, bits, SOR fees and services) - 9,000 miles - sub a grand a month. - I appreciate I was lucky.
I would feel reasonably confident that if you bought a 650 spider with a mac warranty for around the £100k mark currently, that it shall return around £75 -80k in 2 years from now.
If £850 a month seems too much to lose on depreciation, supercars are not for you...
After that price point, the depreciation shall be a lot slower.
If £850 a month seems too much to lose on depreciation, supercars are not for you...
After that price point, the depreciation shall be a lot slower.
This comes down to the basic economics of supply and demand. With GBP at pretty much a 5 year low against every major currency this should be a bumper time for UK manufacturers exporting. So why are McLaren needing to pressure their UK dealers to buy more cars than they want/need? If we get past the mess of Brexit and GBP strengthens (lets say 20%) then their product is going to be 20% more expensive outside the UK than it is right now, which will suppress what already seems to be limited export demand. So the future for UK McLaren residuals doesn't look great if they are so reliant upon the UK market. There is only so many similar models you can keep pumping out to what is a fairly limited customer base in one country without making an impact on residuals. Maybe someone knows the ratio of UK vs export sales? Their total sales for the car part of the group for YE 2018 were £928M, which was almost double the figure of 2017, which is a pretty steep ramp up in what is ultimately a fairly niche product.
Wilmslowboy said:
Hi, there is a supercars for sale page on Facebook, a few pop up from time to time.
Yesterday a 2 year old GTS with 12k miles listed at £90k Ono ,
List price new was £130k.....£1,600 a month for 2 years.
I see it ,how’s he specced that to 130k ? Very similar spec to the one I had except mine was a coupe and mine cost 108k .Yesterday a 2 year old GTS with 12k miles listed at £90k Ono ,
List price new was £130k.....£1,600 a month for 2 years.
ThePackMan said:
This comes down to the basic economics of supply and demand. With GBP at pretty much a 5 year low against every major currency this should be a bumper time for UK manufacturers exporting. So why are McLaren needing to pressure their UK dealers to buy more cars than they want/need? If we get past the mess of Brexit and GBP strengthens (lets say 20%) then their product is going to be 20% more expensive outside the UK than it is right now, which will suppress what already seems to be limited export demand. So the future for UK McLaren residuals doesn't look great if they are so reliant upon the UK market. There is only so many similar models you can keep pumping out to what is a fairly limited customer base in one country without making an impact on residuals. Maybe someone knows the ratio of UK vs export sales? Their total sales for the car part of the group for YE 2018 were £928M, which was almost double the figure of 2017, which is a pretty steep ramp up in what is ultimately a fairly niche product.
The UK accounts for a small % of the overall sales. Historically, there has been oversupply in the UK, which is why they have now reduced supply to the UK market. They are listening to what owners and potential owners have been raising concern about (mostly depreciation). Dealers appear to be buying up older stock and some advertised cars have increased in value. Is this the start of a depreciation slow-down, or even a rebound? Roll back to 2005 when i purchased my 996 GT2, was two years old with a list of £130k+ and i picked it up for £65k.
My 997 Gt2 i purchased in 2012 - £130k odd list again and 3 years old I paid £80k.
These times will come around again, especially given the sheer volume of GT cars and other brand specials they are now pumping out.
My 997 Gt2 i purchased in 2012 - £130k odd list again and 3 years old I paid £80k.
These times will come around again, especially given the sheer volume of GT cars and other brand specials they are now pumping out.
RobDown said:
Am I right in thinking the McWarranty is only for cars under 10 years of age? Does that also apply to the Thorney warranty?
That would be a factor for me on a 2011 12C (I like to keep my cars longer than most I guess)
I am certain that McLaren only warranty cars up to 10 years old. As for Thorney it doesn't say on the website > https://www.thorneymotorsport.co.uk/product/mclare...That would be a factor for me on a 2011 12C (I like to keep my cars longer than most I guess)
I'd be surprised if they didn't cover beyond 10 years old. The next few years should see an uptick in business for them as more cars pass the 10-year threshold.
I am considering a 12C myself. I actually spoke to Thorney today with warranty questions. The chap I spoke to said there is no age limit at the moment. The warranty is also transferable with sale of the car.
I don’t think it’s as sensible a buy as a 997 GT3 (my initial choice) but it seems quite a performance jump.
I don’t think it’s as sensible a buy as a 997 GT3 (my initial choice) but it seems quite a performance jump.
There are 2 types of depreciation in my experience.....selling for cash when you want to unload the car and on the up when you keep buying the next model from the same place.
I have lost so much on Porches, TVR, M model BMW, AMGs, Range Rovers etc that you just need to accept a big loss. We talk about investing in property or investments and complain when we get 2% growth....£1000 per month loss on a car is just accepted but often covered up with the next car or finance deal.
I have lost so much on Porches, TVR, M model BMW, AMGs, Range Rovers etc that you just need to accept a big loss. We talk about investing in property or investments and complain when we get 2% growth....£1000 per month loss on a car is just accepted but often covered up with the next car or finance deal.
Turbo cab said:
Roll back to 2005 when i purchased my 996 GT2, was two years old with a list of £130k+ and i picked it up for £65k.
My 997 Gt2 i purchased in 2012 - £130k odd list again and 3 years old I paid £80k.
These times will come around again, especially given the sheer volume of GT cars and other brand specials they are now pumping out.
They sure will.My 997 Gt2 i purchased in 2012 - £130k odd list again and 3 years old I paid £80k.
These times will come around again, especially given the sheer volume of GT cars and other brand specials they are now pumping out.
When you mentioned 2005 the first thing that always jumps out to me is that i was offered a Porsche 964 turbo 3.6 for £30.5k...i had just bought 2 new flats and after agreeing the deal had the one and only wobble i have ever had and pulled out of the deal.
Back then you almost couldn't give them away...it was all about the 4 wheel drive 993 turbo.
I owned a 964 C4 in the early 2000s. Would have been about that time somebody on the forums was selling their 964RS. Just had a full respray, and if I remember correctly it was up for £28k - which at the time was about £10k more than a 'normal' 964.
I remember thinking it was a bit over priced. Wish I could turn the clock back!
I remember thinking it was a bit over priced. Wish I could turn the clock back!
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